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Saddle Salvageable?

Old 11-06-19, 06:13 PM
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Flying G
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Saddle Salvageable?

Received an older Brooks Professional saddle earlier today that is dry as the desert and maybe, just maybe has some life left in it. The issue is that the large rivets are no longer flush with the leather surface. I’ve reconditioned leather saddles before but nothing as challenging as this. Mrs. Flying G would like to use the saddle but doesn’t want to be bitten in the backside by these exposed rivets. Maybe the saddle is shot and nothing can be done to return the saddle to usable condition.
Or . . . . . Someone on this forum might have some sage advice on how to transform this into a useable saddle at least for a few more years.


Photos attached and thanks in advance for your replies!
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Old 11-06-19, 06:30 PM
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lots of threads on this, but go conservative, start with a good coat (top and underneath) of proofide
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Old 11-06-19, 06:44 PM
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I would expect it will start to swell up with some coating, tightening in the gaps there.
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Old 11-06-19, 06:45 PM
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-----

This is a clear case for Professore Don Rudolfo, AKA @rhm


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Old 11-06-19, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad
lots of threads on this, but go conservative, start with a good coat (top and underneath) of proofide
Couldnt have said it better, and didn’t have too! +1
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Old 11-06-19, 08:56 PM
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I was about to say, you need to page Rudi (rhm), but juvela took care of it already

That man is the saddle whisperer.
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Old 11-07-19, 06:04 AM
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Hmm, thanks, guys! maybe I should have my user name changed to Don Rodolfo, eh? Has a nice ring to it.

Anyway yeah, rubbing some proofide on there might help. The leather may be so dried out that it can't hold a rider's weight for long, but no point in speculating about that. And no point in putting on more Proofide than the leather can absorb. If it's really that dry, I would let it soak up some neatsfoot oil. It can probably soak up a lot of neatsfoot oil before you notice any difference at all. Whether the leather can really be saved, I can only guess. Don't use heat to melt Proofide into the leather; the heat will further damage the leather.

As for the rivets, that's not a difficult fix. Hold the saddle against an anvil of some kind and tap the edges of the rivets down with a hammer. You won't need to hit them very hard. Each tap of the hammer should make a difference, but you will need to hit each one several times,
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Last edited by rhm; 11-07-19 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 11-07-19, 06:39 AM
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Think of saddle leather as skin, which it is. What do we use when our skin is dry and nasty? Water and lotion. I've revived worse saddles than this one using only cheap hand lotion. The magic happens here because cheap lotion is an emulsion of oil and water. Slather it in. The water will soften and dry, and the oils remain. You may have to do this several times to get the effect that you desire, but it'll work.
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Old 11-07-19, 07:51 AM
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You have nothing to lose by trying a little Proofide or other leather treatment. But the prominent central ridge suggests to me that it has been over-softened in the past, so keep your expectations appropriate.

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Old 11-07-19, 09:36 AM
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Doesn't look very comfortable to me at this point.
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Old 11-07-19, 10:37 AM
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Try and see how it turns out. I did one in similar condition recently, proceeded cautiously and only had to hammer down 1 rivet. You can still see some lanolin leather conditioner in the cracks. It's still a little hard a year later, so I plan some more conditioning over the Winter. Don
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Old 11-07-19, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm
Hold the saddle against an anvil of some kind and tap the edges of the rivets down with a hammer.
I wonder if it would help to find a socket that's about the same OD as the rivets, and tap on that, in order to spread the force out around the edge. You'd have to rock it around some, to accomodate the curvature of the rivet heads
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Old 11-07-19, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by madpogue
I wonder if it would help to find a socket that's about the same OD as the rivets, and tap on that, in order to spread the force out around the edge. You'd have to rock it around some, to accomodate the curvature of the rivet heads
Sure, why not? However, you can easily just use a small hammer and give it that hand-hammered look that we usually have to pay extra to get. I've replaced a lot of those rivets. Also, if you need new rivets, or just want to upgrade the rivets in your B17, Use copper roofing nails. Cut them off to the right length and hammer them nicely. They are about $0.06 each vs the $6.00 apiece that Brooks will charge you for essentially the same thing. Once they are hammered-in, they are indistinguishable from Brooks OEM rivets.
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Old 11-07-19, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by madpogue
I wonder if it would help to find a socket that's about the same OD as the rivets, and tap on that, in order to spread the force out around the edge. You'd have to rock it around some, to accommodate the curvature of the rivet heads
Yeah, something like that, but it could be anything with a head small enough to fit inside the concavity of the cantle plate. I suspect most of us have something that will serve the purpose. I have a cutoff piece of I-beam that works very nicely, for example. In the past i used the head of a pickaxe, one end embedded deep in the ground, the other sticking up.
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Old 11-07-19, 12:20 PM
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Put some of this on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neatsfoot_oil
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Old 11-07-19, 12:24 PM
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"That ain't dry. This is dry!"

But it has maintained its shape.


IMG_0746 by wrk101, on Flickr

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Old 11-07-19, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
Doesn't look very comfortable to me at this point.
Seriously. That leather is toast.
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Old 11-07-19, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Seriously. That leather is toast.
Agreed, but still can't hurt to play with it, see how it goes, get a feel for this sort of thing.

I would treat it and ride it a little bit for fun and evaluation then most likely save it for display on something as equally well loved.
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Old 11-07-19, 07:06 PM
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Great feedback from everyone and I do appreciate the responses and photos. I decided to take a slightly different approach to reconditioning this saddle. Didn’t have any neatsfoot oil and only limited amount of proofide which I was saving for the other leather saddles in the bike barn. I did have some clean mink oil on a shelf and decided to give that a shot.
Left the saddle and can of mink oil in the sun in the backyard during this morning’s club ride to warm things up a bit. Applied a layer of the mink oil, top and bottom, and worked it into those tricky hard to reach places near the adjustment screw. Let the saddle absorb the oil for about 4 - 5 hours and then wiped it off and used a horsehair shoe brush to buff it up a bit.
Results? The leather absorbed some oil and looks much, much better on top and underneath. The leather itself is still pretty tight but flexes a tad now. I reapplied a small amount of the mo to some dry spots and will let sit overnight. Do plan to tap down the rivets but suspect that this will be pretty easy to do.
Ran out of sunlight for photos but will post a few tomorrow afternoon so you can see the results. Suspect that I’ll need to mount the saddle, ride it a bit and re-apply the mo or proofide and do hope that the saddle is willing to reshape itself but not holding my breath. Fortunately, didn’t pay anything for the saddle so expectations are suitably low.
Don’t know why I get a kick out of these funny restoration projects but I do! Maybe there is an inherent pleasure in refurbishing what others cast off!
MTF!
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Old 11-12-19, 04:29 PM
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As promised, here are the "after" photos of the saddle. Applied and rubbed one coat of mink oil into top and bottom of saddle - about 45 minutes of effort. Tapped the copper rivets to flatten them out using the suggested pickaxe in the ground and tapping with small sockets and hammer - about 2 minutes of effort.

Results? Even with low expectations, am pleased with the outcome. Leather cleaned up nicely, expanded a bit and looks less neglected. Stretch marks are more visible, especially around the rivets and left side of saddle but hey, don't we all fight that battle as we age? Rivet edges are flatter and less likely to leave bite marks in the backside and tear shorts. Would have tried to persuade Mrs. Flying G to give the saddle a try but one of her friends just gave her a black, unused B17 that needs a little love and proofide. All in life is timing.


Attempted to recreate the same photos but struggeled with light and shadows. The leather actually shows some gloss.


Copper rivets are now less dangerous.


Liverwort on the nose and stretch marks on the left side. We call that "character" where I come from!


Included 3 photos to give readers a sense of the progress of the efforts. Please excuse the poor quality of photos (old iPad) and shadows/lighting but I'm a low cost operation right now until I get things sorted out!

Old Saddle Restoration Score: 4 successes (Ideale 80, 88 and 92 and Brooks Pro) and 1 failure (B67 that exploded on first ride).

Thanks for the suggestions and ideas and I'll order neatsfoot oil for the next saddle challenge!
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Old 11-12-19, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Seriously. That leather is toast.
No it's not.
I just restored an Ideale Saddle that was much worse than that. Loosen off the adjuster bolt.
Soak it fully submerged in water for at least 24 hours, then let it dry out comepletely for at least a week.
After that apply generous amounts of Mink Oil top and bottom let it soak in and keep applying till it doesn'tsoak in any longer. My Ideale took a full 8oz bottle. After that "slowly" turn the adjuster bolt about a half
a turn daily until you find the desired tautness. As a previous poster stated leather is skin and it needs
moisture.
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Old 11-12-19, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Flying G
As promised, here are the "after" photos of the saddle. Applied and rubbed one coat of mink oil into top and bottom of saddle - about 45 minutes of effort. Tapped the copper rivets to flatten them out using the suggested pickaxe in the ground and tapping with small sockets and hammer - about 2 minutes of effort.

Results? Even with low expectations, am pleased with the outcome. Leather cleaned up nicely, expanded a bit and looks less neglected. Stretch marks are more visible, especially around the rivets and left side of saddle but hey, don't we all fight that battle as we age? Rivet edges are flatter and less likely to leave bite marks in the backside and tear shorts. Would have tried to persuade Mrs. Flying G to give the saddle a try but one of her friends just gave her a black, unused B17 that needs a little love and proofide. All in life is timing.


Attempted to recreate the same photos but struggeled with light and shadows. The leather actually shows some gloss
Liverwort on the nose and stretch marks on the left side. We call that "character" where I come from!


Included 3 photos to give readers a sense of the progress of the efforts. Please excuse the poor quality of photos (old iPad) and shadows/lighting but I'm a low cost operation right now until I get things sorted out!

Old Saddle Restoration Score: 4 successes (Ideale 80, 88 and 92 and Brooks Pro) and 1 failure (B67 that exploded on first ride).

Thanks for the suggestions and ideas and I'll order neatsfoot oil for the next saddle challenge!
Hey Flying G, the leather looks like its coming around, but I can tell you from experience, those rivets need to be peened so that they are domed, and the edges are not proud of the leather. they can still catch and tear her shorts like that. It will look better, and be more comfortable.
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Old 11-12-19, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Wileyone
No it's not. I just restored an Ideale Saddle that was much worse than that.
Cool. Let's see the before/after photos.
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Old 11-12-19, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Cool. Let's see the before/after photos.
Cool the "Saddle Police" are here.

All I have is a poor after pic. When I found it it was tan colour with a hairy fuzz on top and absolutely flat in the middle. But the adjuster screw had never been touched,
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Old 11-12-19, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Wileyone

Looks comfy!
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