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What do you really pay for?

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What do you really pay for?

Old 09-25-16, 05:33 PM
  #51  
jorglueke
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Originally Posted by Wileyrat View Post
The bottom line is I wanted it and I could afford it, but I've been riding LBS bikes for almost 45 yrs, and I knew what I looking for.
So what was the first bigger jump in quality you made and for what reason? When you say your rode LBS bikes you mean you got t try out a lot so it was easy to decide what you wanted next?
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Old 09-25-16, 05:35 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Jeannean View Post
When looking at bikes, I set my budget at around $1000. Went to a couple of LBS's and test road some in that price range. Nothing grabbed me, so just for the fun of it, I asked to ride a $2200 CF bike. It was a night and day difference to me. It was so much smoother riding. I ended up getting a CF bike with an Ultegra groupset and have been very happy with it and ride a lot now. I don't think that would have been the case if I had bought a bike that was in my original budget (however, I was able to stay close to that budget by buying a lightly used bike).
I will put a test drive on my list. I wonder how far they'll let me go
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Old 09-25-16, 05:38 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
I don't see this as a "legitimate" topic. When these threads are posted, it seems to invariably be a situation where the OP feels insecure about his bike and is trying to drum up support for the notion that any bike nicer is a poor choice. Look at the original post. Some arbitrary limit of $1000 is thrown out, curiously corresponding to close to the cost of OP's bike if new. He clearly states he doesn't believe the majority of cyclists need a nicer bike. Why post? Most of us understand diminishing returns and we understand nicer is nicer. No cyclist I know would diss someone's bike because it was inexpensive. Ride what you can afford and let others do the same.
I don't know why I'm bothering to explain this since you obviously have telepathy.

$1000 is the current cost for an entry level Trek Road bike. Not terribly arbitrary.
Need meaning, for $1000 you are going to get something what won't collapse into a heaping pile of Walmart rubble the first time you hit a pothole. If you're biking regularly that's my cut off for need. After that it;s want. So when people spend more than what they need to have a basic quality ride why do they do it?

That's what I'm curious about.

If you don;t think a thread is legitimate why waste your time being an ass?
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Old 09-25-16, 05:39 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
Why do people need to respond to these kinds of threads with a snarky put down? I think its a legitimate question for a lot of people.

I have an aluminum Motobecane Le Champion, with Ultegra gear set, brakes, shifters, Kinesis carbon fork and Shimano wheels with Michelen Pro 4 tires. I also have a Trek Madone 5.2, completely stock with Ultegra, Bontrager wheels, Gatorskins.

The two bikes shift the same, as would be expected. They brake the same. Seats, bars feel the same. Cornering feels the same.

The Trek accelerates faster, likely due to the lower weight. It climbs easier, again, likely due to the weight. The Trek does seem to damp some vibrations better.

If I were racing, I wouldn't have a choice. I'd need the Madone to be competitive against people of my same skill and fitness level.

For recreational riding, there's not enough difference to justify the additional costs based on performance.

So, as a strictly recreational rider, why do I have the Madone? Because I like it.
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Old 09-25-16, 05:40 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
That would be true if he were discussing his own purchase decision. He, however, wants to discuss somebody else's thought process. I'm not real good at analyzing my own purchase decisions. Getting inside of somebody else's head is beyond me.
The irony escaped you eh?
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Old 09-25-16, 06:20 PM
  #56  
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At a certain point there is a synergy which can't really be quantified by "What do you pay for?"

A mid 60's Jaguar E-Type, a Mustang P51 fighter plane, James Brown gettin' up offa that thing...

I know it when I experience it even if I can't explain it.
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Old 09-25-16, 06:21 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by jorglueke View Post
$1000 is the current cost for an entry level Trek Road bike.
Why not an entry-level road bike from BikesDirect? In fact, I am sure you can get nice road bikes for a lot less at a lot of places.

Performance Bikes offers this: Fuji Sportif 2.5 Road Bike - 2017 for $539 and you can actually go to a Performance Bike store and pick it up.

I think the reason people take issue with the post is the tone: the "I paid less so I am wiser, you were all suckered into buying hype and no substance." That is why I asked about how you determine the "needs" of others. Apparently you missed that point.

Maybe you should abandon this thread, and start a new one along the lines of "What added value did you perceive that you received when you bought a more expensive bike?"---maybe something which doesn't in the actual first post tell people they were fools who overspent on stuff they didn't "need."

There have been a lot of threads like this one---(hence the "dead horse" responses) and they all seem to come from people defending spending what they spent and telling everyone who spent more that they bought a bunch of hype and marketing and glitz and crap that they didn't need or which didn't make any difference.

Pretty obviously, that is not the most friendly way to start.

Maybe you could start a new thread explaining what you ride and have ridden, what worked and didn't work, how you decided on what you have now and how well it works for you, and then ask if people who spent more found that what they have preforms better than cheaper stuff they used to own, and if so, how?

When you start off telling other people what they "need" you are already too far off track to salvage the thread ... because obviously, there are many different definitions of "need" and equally obviously, everyone "needs" different things.

That whole "individuality" thing, ya know.

Anyway, you want to call me "Troll" for asking about a huge logical flaw in your post, go ahead. Not sure it helps in any way ... and it sure doesn't clear up that huge logical flaw.

Originally Posted by jorglueke View Post
If you don;t think a thread is legitimate why waste your time being an ass?
Maybe, Sir, You are being an ass by telling everyone what they “need,” and people are pointing this out to you so you won’t make the same mistake again? Sometimes the kindest thing people can do is criticize.

Seriously ... Reword the question to elicit Exactly the information you want, leave out the moralizing about what others “need,” and start fresh ... maybe you will get more of the kind of answers you want.

Also ... if you post a question, any question, on the Internet and are not prepared for some answers which make you uncomfortable or call into question the thought processes behind the question, maybe the Internet is not a good place for you.
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Old 09-25-16, 06:23 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by jorglueke View Post
Most of you must not use helmets. I don't give a flying hoot about general preferences made with regard to the purchase of luxury goods. I am wondering what the main factors are when people spend more than say $1000 or $2000 on a...get ready for this.. BICYCLE! I want to know what you think about when you plop down $4000 on a BICYCLE. Do you understand that this is a BICYCLE forum? Not clothes or anything else.
Getting kind of overwrought there jorg. In your clueless arrogance, you are apparently blind to what everyone is trying to explain to you. Your $1000 "entry level" bike might be someone's grail. Or it more likely for BF, would be considered a bottom feeder BSO. It's all relative. You've clearly stated you don't think anyone needs a bike nicer than your $1000 Trek. You've staked out a position. You would have done better just to have asked what folks like about their nicer bikes instead of implying they have somehow made a stupid choice, EDIT- Maelochs said it all above, better than I could have!
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Old 09-25-16, 06:26 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by jorglueke View Post
Most of you must not use helmets. I don't give a flying hoot about general preferences made with regard to the purchase of luxury goods. I am wondering what the main factors are when people spend more than say $1000 or $2000 on a...get ready for this.. BICYCLE! I want to know what you think about when you plop down $4000 on a BICYCLE. Do you understand that this is a BICYCLE forum? Not clothes or anything else.
You should start giving a hoot. And then you should start making a connection. Because the question you're asking is answered by the same general reasoning.

Do you need help with said reasoning? Maybe a detailed illustration would be of assistance?
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Old 09-25-16, 06:33 PM
  #60  
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Thanks to all who responded to the question understanding what I intended which was to hear why other's make the jump from the $1000 price point upwards.

For the rest of you, I don't care what you think I thought or what you think about my post.
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Old 09-25-16, 06:38 PM
  #61  
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Y'all come back soon
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Old 09-25-16, 06:45 PM
  #62  
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Well, for one you are paying for decreased economies of scale. The fewer units sold due to higher price, the fewer units are made, and therefore the more it costs per unit to manufacture, transport and store.
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Old 09-25-16, 06:54 PM
  #63  
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For me, I worked in a local bike shop through high school. We sold Schwinn, when I left Cannondale came in. From that point onward I always wanted one. I purchased my CAADX Cyclocross bike 2 years ago, and now the Beast of the East last week. I don't go for the top of the line components, I'm a Shimano 105 guy. The more you pay, the lighter & smoother it gets.
At 53 years old, I'm tired of buying junk, Life is short , get what YOU want.
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Old 09-25-16, 06:55 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by italktocats View Post
people dont need a car either, but they sure love it
People would get a million times more enjoyment from spending the depreciation value on a new bike that they lost driving a new car off the lot....than from driving a new car off the lot.

Or something like that.

Spend $55k on a new SUV that ain't going to do nothing but fill vanity needs.

Or ride a $6k bike for three years and keep yourself in shape, out of trouble, and full of enjoyment.
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Old 09-25-16, 06:57 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by jorglueke View Post

$1000 is the current cost for an entry level Trek Road bike. Not terribly arbitrary.
Need meaning, for $1000 you are going to get something what won't collapse into a heaping pile of Walmart rubble the first time you hit a pothole. If you're biking regularly that's my cut off for need. After that it;s want.
But you can get a giant or Fuji comparable bike with similar components and quality for under $600. Won't fall apart...if you "splurge" for the $1000 trek, we could call it a "want."
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Old 09-25-16, 06:59 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by longbeachgary View Post
Sorry to hear about the Corolla thing - and yes, I still wear a watch and there is a large contingent of watch afficianados here. Is your 12 string a Fender Squire?
Actually, I ended up giving away my first guitar, a Yamaha acoustic 12 string, to young man in Haiti who really was wanting one.

I now only own 6 string guitars.
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Old 09-25-16, 07:04 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by 12strings View Post
But you can get a giant or Fuji comparable bike with similar components and quality for under $600. Won't fall apart...if you "splurge" for the $1000 trek, we could call it a "want."
We could but then we'd needlessly debating semantics instead of answering the intent of the question.
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Old 09-25-16, 07:08 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Heyspike View Post
Life is short , get what YOU want.
Yes! But, how do I know what I want with so much choice? Sure I'd love not to have to remember to get my butt out of my seat every time I ride over a crack in the road or sidewalk, can a better bike fix that?

I can ride for hours I just get tired of hills, is an electric boost the way to go?

I don't know exactly, I remain curious on what factors go into people's purchasing decisions.
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Old 09-25-16, 07:13 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I think the reason people take issue with the post is the tone: the "I paid less so I am wiser, you were all suckered into buying hype and no substance." That is why I asked about how you determine the "needs" of others. Apparently you missed that point.
Then they are a bit hypersensitive no? Maybe the internet is too rough and tumble when a simple question can rile them up. Another approach might be to ask the poster to clarify rather than jamming a whole bunch of assumptions into the thread. Or you could just ignore the whole thread. But no, the wise must lecture...

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Seriously ... Reword the question to elicit Exactly the information you want, leave out the moralizing about what others “need,” and start fresh ... maybe you will get more of the kind of answers you want.
Seriously, get over yourself.
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Also ... if you post a question, any question, on the Internet and are not prepared for some answers which make you uncomfortable or call into question the thought processes behind the question, maybe the Internet is not a good place for you.
There's that irony again.
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Old 09-25-16, 07:23 PM
  #70  
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Why don't you go back through the thread, add up the responses that agree with your initial assertion that none of us need a bike that costs over $1000?
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Old 09-25-16, 07:40 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Wileyrat View Post
Need has little to do with it, and want has almost everything to do with it.

In my case, I don't "need" the largest engine I could get in my F-150, I don't "need" a pool in my back yard, and I don't "need" a CF bike, but I wanted all of them.

OP, for instance, how big is your TV, and do you really "need" one that big?
I'm going to make an assumption here that what was meant be "need" is that there seem to be many people who have equipment that is very far beyond what they can benefit from. For example, I met a lady, in 2008 or 2009, who had a $2500 carbon Trek, and she didn't even know how to use the gears, or what they were for. The bike offered so much more than she could comprehend.
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Old 09-25-16, 07:42 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Rider_1 View Post
I'm going to make an assumption here that what was meant be "need" is that there seem to be many people who have equipment that is very far beyond what they can benefit from. For example, I met a lady, in 2008 or 2009, who had a $2500 carbon Trek, and she didn't even know how to use the gears, or what they were for. The bike offered so much more than she could comprehend.
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Old 09-25-16, 07:53 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
People would get a million times more enjoyment from spending the depreciation value on a new bike that they lost driving a new car off the lot....than from driving a new car off the lot.

Or something like that.

Spend $55k on a new SUV that ain't going to do nothing but fill vanity needs.
This right here is a perfect illustration of folks projecting their own economic situation on others. They can't imagine why anyone would own an SUV for anything other than "vanity needs."

This kind of slow thinking is unfortunately all too prevalent.

For example:

- I already own a number of "high end" bikes that I already get lots of enjoyment from -regardless of what vehicles I own or drive.
- My SUV gets us to great trailheads all across the Western US(more enjoyment right there), tows our boat to great lakes/rivers (more enjoyment right there), and gets us quickly and safely up to ski in the Winter (more enjoyment right there).

Who are you to determine what other peoples' enjoyment should stem from? Heck, many folks don't enjoy riding yet you paint them with the same silly brush.

Furthermore, you need to understand that there are many riders that don't share the economic constraints that you use as your baseline. Depreciation on a mid-range SUV (your $55k example) is simply not an issue for many folks
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Old 09-25-16, 08:07 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Rider_1 View Post
I'm going to make an assumption here that what was meant be "need" is that there seem to be many people who have equipment that is very far beyond what they can benefit from. For example, I met a lady, in 2008 or 2009, who had a $2500 carbon Trek, and she didn't even know how to use the gears, or what they were for. The bike offered so much more than she could comprehend.
Not at all, I'm sure the vast majority of riders on nice bikes can ride just fine with a "lesser" bike, but chose for whatever reason to buy a nicer bike.

I know if I were young and starting out, I wouldn't choose to spend thousands on a c.f. bike, but I'm not, and I chose to buy a bike that I wanted rather than one that just suited my utilitarian needs.
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Old 09-25-16, 08:14 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Rider_1 View Post
I'm going to make an assumption here that what was meant be "need" is that there seem to be many people who have equipment that is very far beyond what they can benefit from. For example, I met a lady, in 2008 or 2009, who had a $2500 carbon Trek, and she didn't even know how to use the gears, or what they were for. The bike offered so much more than she could comprehend.
A slippery slope if we are only permitted to buy a bike we could utilize to the max. Don't think you really want to promote that. Sorry the lady with the Trek offended you so badly you still talk about it 9 years later. Must have been tough!
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