SJX426 

gaucho777 - Thanks. They do look like a nice transition between old and newer. Better than some. Not a big fan of the compact bars.

SJX426 

Well this build is on hold until I make a decision on brakes and shifters.
I failed to provide the update of the last activity which was to transfer the Record crank from the Pinarello. That led to this thread https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...aper-only.html That led to this thread https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nsistancy.html.
Bottom line is that y'all were very helpful in resolving the BB issues in both wrt putting the Chorus crank on the Pin. The Record crank went on the De Rosa without a problem once I realized the BB needed to come with. Now I have a Phill Wood BB in 113, Campagnolo and a couple of configurations and lengths.
Special shout out to Pynchonite , CO_Hoya and Drillium Dude for help on the hardware. Now if anyone has a drive side thin cup .....

Anyway, a couple of pics:
Current state
P1030167, on Flickr
Did I mention a new chain?
P1030168, on Flickr
Also cable stops
P1030169, on Flickr
P1030170, on Flickr
P1030172, on Flickr

Decided to go with silver brake calipers. So those will likely be next. Then Ergos or DT shifters. At that point I may just go friction to try them out and put a pair of Chorus levers on just to ride it.

SJX426 

Pulled the trigger on brake calipers. Ouch!! Update when they arrive and are mounted. Hope I don't have to return or flip them!

Next are the Ergos. This one is really going to hurt!

SJX426 

Well the brakes arrived 2 days early! Will install shortly, Here they are. Very nice condition, like NOS
P1030199 , on Flickr
Pads are not broken in yet!
P1030201 , on Flickr

I solicited input on silver vs black. silver one but try to find a decent pair of silver calipers that don't' have pits! I think the black will be fine and will make the frame pop.

I am in the closing assembly of installing a lift on my Jeep. Ran into inexperience on my part along the way and was way to tired to finish up last night. Just threw all the stuff in the garage to clean up this morning. Yet to be done but will install the brakes first! Priorities!

SJX426 

New development. The length of the mounting hut is too long. Looks like it was designed for a thick crown. the rear tightens on the inside of the brake side of the bridge. The nut still protrudes a bit short of seating on the opposite side.
Front brake nut
P1030207, on Flickr

Guess I will be looking for shorter nuts. I am concerned that the stud is too long on the front brake. It almost reaches the rear hole of the crown.

noglider 

@SJX426, I have nuts of various sizes. Want me to check?

Munich Sausage

I went all white with tape an saddle on my one:



But I think the frame will look gorgeus with a little more black. Hope you finish soon!

RobbieTunes

That is a personal issue.

SJX426 

noglider Thanks for the offer! Measurements indicate a 10 mm shaft length to the flange of the head. Only need one. I can put the one on the rear on the front and then all will be good.

tNuvolari

Beautiful bike! I'm updating a De Rosa wannabe red Torpado with Campy 10 speed derailleurs/ergo so would love to hear any problems you're having and any other info.

SJX426 

Munich Sausage - Great looking bike! looks very light and airy!

Finally mounted the brakes. I am NOT overwhelmed by the black. It does what I expected of almost blending into the background, making the frame pop a little. They are also a bit large looking and obscure what is behind them. They are my first black calipers, maybe I need to acclimate to them. I don't question there agility to stop!
As promised, here are some pics.
P1030212, on Flickr
P1030213, on Flickr
P1030216, on Flickr

Might have found a better background.
P1030219, on Flickr

SJX426 

I finally gave up finding a pair of Record 10V Ergo's. Settled on a pair of Chorus instead. Rather early ones. They should arrive later this week. This will get me to the road on this frame. I will keep an eye out for Record Ergos. Might even go for 11 V!

SJX426 

Got the Chorus. Disappointed in the amount of "Wear and Tear." Obviously in an accident where the road met the bodies and ground and ground and gound. Most hidden under the hoods. Good thing is they work and the damage is mostly under the hoods.
P1030397, on Flickr
P1030390, on Flickr

The hoods had a start of tears and very worn.
P1030394 on Flickr

The day after I purchased the Chorus set, notenoughdaylig made me an offer I couldn't refuse for a set of Record Ergos in pieces. Thanks for your generosity Greg! Should arrive today. Branford has parts if I need them. Branford also has just the bodies for a reasonable price, which I may replace the left one.
In the mean time, I picked up a pair of Chorus brakes in silver, just in case I cant take the black Records. They have not been mounted to check the aesthetics yet.
P1030393 , on Flickr

I tried to take pics that would show the black on red with silver.
P1030400 on Flickr
P1030399 on Flickr

In the process of organizing a couple of 12 Gal bins, I found this and mounted it. Need to get another.
P1030396, on Flickr

in the theme of going all Campagnolo, a full set of cables were ordered yesterday. Black cable housings. I have white if I need to swap.

Slowly getting to full assembly. Need to check my stash of bar tape to see what I have.

Yup! 3mil version. I think the Pinarello has the 2 mil. I like it!
P1030401, on Flickr

SJX426 

One step forward one step back.

The Record set from notenoughdaylig showed up. I found a great youtube video to overhaul ErgoPower shifters. No voice instructions just great steps. Two attempts for front and back, Done. Greg sent a new set of G springs and hoods! Wahoo!

Chorus removed, Record installed. The key difference between the Chorus and Record set is the Chorus is the previous gen without the BB System, which the Record is. Exactly what I was looking for. Lessoned learned on the Chorus purchase. At least I have some common parts as spares.

P1030402 , on Flickr
P1030403, on Flickr
P1030405, on Flickr

Do I take enough PIcs?

So the set back is about the FD. I didn't pay attention to the pictures and didn't notice that the mounting bolt and washer were not original. Buyer beware. I took a bolt and concave washer from another FD and mounted the FD on the frame.
As I was taking the last picture above, I noticed something stranged. Crap! What is going on here?
P1030407, on Flickr

Time to go for a ride!

SJX426 

OK, don't know if anyone is still following this thread. I am updating just for my own record of events.
Started a thread on the FD issue on the Mechanics Forum here.

Looks like I bought a FD for a triple crank. It does not help me understand why the pivot distance is greater. Well maybe it does.
Since the distince of travel is greater for a triple, the pivots are extended to increase the range. When placed on a frame with a double crank, the position of the outer ring is equivalent to the middle ring on a triple. If the 53t was in a position from the center line of the frame equivalent to a triple, the cage would clear.

Why? because the cage moves in a vector that is not 90* from the hanger slot , but less than 90* so the cage is closer to the rings as it extends from the inner to the outer ring. Looking from the front, it moves to the west-north-west from the small ring.
I will have to find a braze on for a double in my stash. Might be a Superbe Pro until I find a reasonable priced Record 10V RD.



BTW. the Chorus RD on the Pinarello measures 18mm between the pivots. The FD in question has a distance of 23mm.

Just read on Sheldon that if an interference occurs with a large chain ring, grind off the bottom of the cage to clear as needed. Do I want to do that? Should I just sell what I have and get what I need?

SJX426 

Well the Superbe Pro fits as it should.

SJX426 

Cables showed up yesterday. Splurged and bought a Campagnolo set. Decided if I was going to go Campy, go all the way. Superbe Pro is temporary and is slated to go on the Trek 760.
The kit is somewhat interesting. I thought the shift cables would be too short but no.

There was a discussion (thread) about cable housing terminations and should you use a domed housing cap or one that is flat on Campy brakes and levers. This kit has only 4 caps, all for the shift housing. Looks like they opted for not using any on the brake housings.

The next fun activity will be to start cable installation.




However.....
I ran into this interesting part

Its the one on the frame braze on for the RD housing that is suppose to be used to prevent dust and dirt getting into the housing. I don't get how to install this thing. The pig tail is not shown in the instructions. The bellows part is to go over the cable in "front" of the braze on.

The braze on is another challenge as it is a straight through, without a step.


Any ideas of how this assembly goes together? There is no "Pocket" in the housing for the pig tail.

In the mean time, I am going to disassemble the right Ergo and lube it up with lithium grease. I added none as practice to understand how it goes together.
Then the cabling installation starts.

BTW: The Chorus Ergos were disassembled to see what the status is. Not great. I should not have purchased them or should have sent them back. The spring carrier for the right side is broken in two places. It was packed with what looks like Campy lithium grease. The G springs didn't look good either. Ordered the kit from Branford for both. The rest of the Ergo look acceptable. There is a scrape on the top of the Ergo, but not $78 worth.
The right has different issues. The springs looked shot. The body is badly ground down. Even though the hoods nearly cover it up, I just couldn't accept it. So both G springs and a new body were ordered.
Now I have a lot of $ tied up in a set of Ergos that I don't need. They will be rebuilt with critical parts replaced and should function great.
The only difference between the two sets appears to be the lever with either Chorus or Record. They both have internal ball bearing cartridges with parts that look interchangeable. The only remainder upgrade for these will be new hoods.

Comment about Ergo rebuild. Some have said it is a challenge. I did not find it so. Yes there is some spring tension to retain during assembly but if the directions are followed carefully and engagement is checked along the way, it is not a big deal. If you are mechanically inclined, I would not hesitate to dive in. What is hard about the overhaul process is the cost of some of the parts. individually they look acceptably priced but they add up quickly. What encouraged me to go for the parts was the easy of the build and the unkown condition of ergos on the bay. Without exposing what is under the hood (like a car) or testing the functionality for potentiol broken or worn out parts, you don't know what you are getting. I suspect if you are willing to pay $250+ for a set, you may mitigate this risk. The Chorus Ergo's were a good learning experience, which I also recieved with the Records. They can be back up parts or may be a reason to convert the Pinarello to 10 speed from 8.

Starting to like the black brakes with the black housing

SJX426 

Found a step down ferrule in the packet of Jagwire housing terminals. It fits well enough but I am disappointed in the length of the female end. It always amazes me how much bending force is at this point due to the stiffness of the modern shift housing. One bike i used a cable tie to minimize the angle from the braze on.
Oh and I forgot. Still need to adjust chain length.

ridelikeaturtle

Aha, I understand now!

So if the braze-on were like a more modern one, where there was a slit lengthways in it, you could install the cable through the bellows and then into the cable housing. Then slot the housing and cable into the braze-on (because of the lengthwise slot, you don't have to thread the cable in first), with the bellows in front of the braze-on, and the cap & housing inside the braze-on.

SJX426 

Not sure I understand! My limitation I am sure!
The only way I can see this working is to remove the bellows from the cap insert the housing in the cap and let the pig tail stick through the braze on and the bellows on top of the pig tail. The only reason this doesn't work is the braze on does not have a step in the bore. The cap won't even fit in the opening as it is too big in diameter. The only way this is going to work, and it is my plan, is to use the step down ferrule found without the cap and pig tail. Another option is to pull the pig tial out of the cap and see if it will fit in the step down and out the front of the braze on. Then the bellows would have something to fit on and stay in place. Stay tuned!!!

tNuvolari

My exact problem right now also! It ends up at a strained angle which will no doubt cause the cable eventually to grind through the pigtail and destroy it all.

SJX426 

tNuvolari Exactly! I am considering a black tie strap at the DO/CS junction.

Update on the Chorus Ero's. Per the description of Ergo's in #42 above, I decided the seller should know and sent him a note. He was surprised and offered a refund. I made a suggestion to cover the worn out parts and he accepted. 35% refund. I was surprised at the response and grateful!
The parts cost to me was reduced about the same amount. There is a chance to recover costs now, should I decide to sell them.

The right record Ergo was removed and disassembled again! This time I decided to pack with grease. I have a small tub of Campagnolo grease that is still good from 1973ish. Since the marking on the tub is worn off and I haven't really used it much, it was opened and applied to all parts. I must have been lucky the prvious times when assembling it. Not this time. After the initial assembly, it would only shift three positions. After much fiddling, the timing between the front gear and rear one was finally understood. Oh and that wasn't the problem! There is a large washer that goes between the G Spring ring and the gear. It has a small detent in it . It can be placed with it up or down. It needs to be down. The gear was running into it and would not go over it. There is a detent in the spring ring that aligns the washer correctly on the ring. If you take the 2nd Gen Ergo apart, pay attention to this detail. It can be overlooked easity as there is a flat spot that needs to align with the post on the ring and the washer will fit either way.

Disassembling of the left Ergo and assess its state before going further would be an excellent move!

I looked for my tube of thread locker and found it depleted. I must save everything! Went out and purchased a replacement and will apply to the retention screw this morning. Next two steps are to mount the Ergo and start the cabling process. This always causes concern as I don't want to cut twice and find out the housing is still too short. The other issues is placement of the Ergos on the bars and the impact to cable length. Yes, I will ride it to test placement before wrapping bars and likely hoods. Much easier to get to the retention bolt.

tNuvolari

I tried the zip tie and it did interfere with the shifting. I took it off and now the shifting is near perfect. I have an issue with the inner cage being not proper to this RD so I get some noise but the shifting is still pretty great. Also, I cut about 1.5" off the RD casing and this made the angle of the cable less severe. I've ordered a step down ferrule that the Campy pigtail ferrule should fit inside (it's 6mm) but it's coming from France so won't see it for a month but for now the shifting is great and the angle seems straight enough that it shouldn't cause any problems.
But I would avoid the zip tie or anything that stifles the free movement of the cable and casing.

squirtdad

this is what it looked like with 5800 105 set up, I used stepdown ferrule for the dive helmet cable stop....might still have it around didn't have an issue hard to tell but it does not look like stepdown ferrule is being used

Choke 

I know this is late, but since those pads say 'Zipp' on them I would have concerns that they are made for carbon rims. They may be for Al rims but it would be worth doing some research......or swap out the pads from your silver set.