rickpaulos

We had a discussion going on another forum (until it got hacked) about how the IRS reporting rules changes would affect the number of ebay listings.
ebay is under IRS directive to report annual sales exceeding $600 per seller. Was to go into effect for the 2022 tax year but was delayed a year.
Would part time sellers quit if they knew the IRS was informed of a persons sales figures and could be subject to extra taxes or an audit?
Would some quit because of the extra paper work needed to deduct expenses to reduce the taxes?
Foreign sellers surely don't care.

I was using the ebay dot com slash cycling url to look at the number of cycling listings. Simple but with no more detail. Below is my list from the archived site. I'll continue to update this post.

I recently checked and the number has dropped a huge amount. 58% decrease in 3 months! Since employers, banks and ebay have until january 30 to report to the IRS and sellers, it seems like that's not the reason for the sudden drop. Could be international tensions. Many of the listings were from China. The pandemic bike boom is over so maybe all bike sales have dropped so much, many have given up bike parts sales. Or maybe ebay changed how they count listings. Or their count is off. So many listings are for multiple items (different sizes, colors, parts, etc). Or is ebay just in trouble overall? Whatever you think of ebay or feebay, it's by far the world's largest market for obscure cycling equipment.

3,078,274 Results 12/24/2021
3,050,464 Results 12/31/2021
3,120,187 Results 01/07/2022
2,992,969 Results 01/19/2022
2,911,041 Results 01/25/2022
2,803,760 Results 02/01/2022
2,885,930 Results 02/08/2022
2,979,390 Results 02/14/2022
3,008,728 Results 02/24/2022
3,054,208 Results 03/06/2022
3,065,628 Results 03/15/2022
3,025,184 Results 03/23/2022
3,062,187 Results 03/30/2022
3,097,945 Results 04/07/2022
3,010,463 Results 04/21/2022
3,077,844 Results 05/01/2022
3,078,746 Results 06/01/2022
3,525,683 Results 09/23/2022
3,614,839 Results 11/01/2022
3,221,015 Results 01/23/2023
3,312,222 Results 02/01/2023
3,337,765 Results 03/02/2023
3,860,747 Results 04/06/2023
3,890,487 Results 05/10/2023
4,172,515 Results 06/01/2023
3,981,091 Results 09/01/2023
4,027,787 Results 10/8/2023
1,778,871 Results 1/12/2024
1,655,902 Results 2/18/2024

Maelochs

People finally sold all the bikes they bought during the pandemic and never rode.

Jughed

What were the typical mid Jan numbers in the years before Rona?

base2 

I tried to buy a HAM radio. It arrived in a box with no packing material. The heat sink was broken upon arrival and the smoke was let out the first time I plugged it in. It didn't transmit. It didn't receive. Seller fought it. 30 days in dispute. I eventually won. Shipped it back properly packed.

I tried to buy a 2016 Cervelo R5 in size 56 to replace my size 58. 21 days after the sale it arrives a misrepresented & resprayed prior model. Seller fought it for a week. $750 to overnight it back to England from Seattle. Not reimbursed for shipping per eBay policy. I didn't push it because I used DHL Not the same slow UPS or whatever global shipping program the seller used.

I bought a pair of Ritchey pedals. Seller cancelled because he didn't have the item.

I recently bought a 90mm Control Tech Timania stem. Seller cancelled because he didn't have the 90mm in stock.

You wonder why sales are down? Dishonest, disreputable sellers selling things things they don't have or lying about the quality, condition or authenticity of what they do have.

shelbyfv

It's been very cold here as well.

Outrider1

So, whatcha ordering next?

CrimsonEclipse

Pick your poison.
eBay is mid range on the dodgy-ness scale.
Amazon is commonly the same exact sellers but better distribution network
AliExpress is worse
Temu (yikes)

Do another search on actual bikes -vs- accessories.
Narrow it down on what actually decreased.
My guess is the sub $25 sector has decreased by 50-75% for said tax reasons.

icemilkcoffee 

If it went into effect for tax year 2023, how come you didn't see sales drop off till 2024?

icemilkcoffee 

I used the same methodology on the 'Vintage Cycling' category, which has more of the small time traders and fewer of the massive retailers out of China, etc. Right now it is showing 62,265 listings. Back on Jan17 2023 it was 57578 listings. Back in Jan 24 2022 it was 49075. So your theory is disproven.

Barry2 

Is it possible that sale of Vintage items might bypass the Tax
Sale of new items (for profit) would be eligible for the Tax

This might warp the numbers

Barry

rickpaulos

My numbers posted above are of items listed because that's what the op in the other forum posed. I have no idea if sales have dropped off at eBay. I'm sure eBay tracks sales by the minute by zip codes by weather by big public events, etc, but would they make that data public?

Many small sellers don't know they have to pay taxes on item sold. And eBay has yet to send sellers a tax statement for the 2023 fiscal year. Those that have met the $600 reporting threshold just haven't been notified yet. US tax law says we have to pay capital gains on anything we sell. At swap meets, garage sales, via eBay, or used motor vehicles. The IRS can only do so much and IMO, they don't do nearly enough to go after the big deadbeats and there are far too many loopholes. They can't assign an agent to every swap meet or garage sale or follow every craigslist posting. In my state, used car sales are taxed by the state and you have to pay that to transfer the title. eBay has plenty of big sellers who probably aren't paying and since eBay is fully computerized, it's an easy target.

rickpaulos

eBay leaves it to the sellers to classify their items. eBay provides the categories, the sellers choose from them when listing. Categories are mostly pointless if you are keyword searching for a particular item. Categories work best if you are "just browsing" or for eBay trying to push items in your face. Anyhow, trying to count items by categories is pretty inaccurate as many sellers get it wrong for various reasons. If you look at "bicycles" (43,000 today), sorted by price (low to high), the majority of low priced items are not "bicycles" and some aren't even bicycle related.

rickpaulos

Well, it looks like the IRS has delayed the changes again.

Now at $5000 for 2024. (was going to be $600 for 2023 which was already delayed a year)

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-ann...implementationFS-2023-27, Nov. 2023

Following feedback from taxpayers, tax professionals, and payment processors and to reduce taxpayer confusion, the Internal Revenue Service delayed the new $600 Form 1099-K reporting threshold requirement for third party payment organizations for tax year 2023 and is planning a threshold of $5,000 for 2024 to phase in the new law.

Third party payment organizations include many popular payment apps and online marketplaces.

The agency is making 2023 another transition year to implement the new requirements under the American Rescue Plan that changed the Form 1099-K reporting threshold for payments taxpayers get selling goods or providing a service over $600. The previous reporting thresholds will remain in place for 2023.

What this means

This means that for 2023 and prior years, payment apps and online marketplaces are only required to send out Forms 1099-K to taxpayers who receive over $20,000 and have over 200 transactions. For tax year 2024, the IRS plans for a threshold of $5,000 to phase in reporting requirements.

This phased-in approach will allow the agency to review its operational processes to better address taxpayer and stakeholder concerns.

Taxpayers should be aware that while the reporting threshold remains over $20,000 and 200 transactions for 2023, companies could still issue the form for any amount.

It's important to note that the higher threshold does not affect the actual tax law to report income on your tax return. All income, no matter the amount, is taxable unless it's excluded by law whether a Form 1099-K is sent or not.

roadcrankr

Individual sellers of random items (think in terms of hobbies, garage sales, and the like) hardly represent the type for the IRS to boost tax revenue.
Come on, anybody who sells $5,000 of old bike parts can quickly scribble a listing that fully negates any profit.
Any 1099 coming from eBay hardly consists of a burden to the taxpayer. Just make sure to report it on Schedule C with little or zero profit.
The IRS wants to close the loophole on sellers making a living off online sales from all angles.
This taxation could prove substantial for both fed & state income tax and self-employment tax.

70sSanO

Well $5000 is a much more reasonable threshold. I don’t sell, but I did contact our representatives and voiced my concern that the only ones getting hurt will be the occasional sellers. Especially since the cost of the item is not deducted from the sale/income.

If someone runs a business they can write off expenses, but the garage sale/hobbyist can’t. Then they get a 1099 that increases their income by $600+ for selling old stuff.

John

roadcrankr

Sorry, but this is simply not true. The informational 1099, of course, reports at gross, but anybody can utilize a form Schedule C to capture costs and selling expenses.
Where the casual seller will make a mistake revolves around ignoring the 1099 altogether, then getting a tax bill from the IRS.

70sSanO

I haven’t visited this since early last year, and I’m not a tax guy. What I read, by supposedly knowledgable people, was if you bought a bike for $2000 and sold it for $1000 (third part payment) you couldn’t use the initial cost against the sale.

John

roadcrankr

I probably should've said I'm a retired CPA. lol
Just keep a reasonable amount of sensible records.
Best to avoid recording recurring losses on annual activity.

CliffordK

We just had one of the worst freezing rain ice storms that we've had in a decade or two. I think a large swath of the country had snow and freezing weather.

I lost power for 8 1/2 days. Last week selling (or buying) bikes was the furthest thing from my thoughts.

I did, however, purchase a new battery for my battery chain saw on E-Bay, as well as a new air filter for the generator.

$600 is rather low for gross sales. For many people simply cleaning house, the net on $600 would be a rounding error.

If one is selling miscellaneous old bike stuff that one bought several years before, then much of it would be depreciated.

Perhaps the IRS wants people to start deducting E-Bay losses from their taxes.

70sSanO

Well, I certainly defer any opinion I might have to you.

John

CliffordK

For some people E-Bay is a business, and the IRS wants to capture those people.

For others it is personal cleaning house.

If a person bought a bunch of odds and ends new, then is dumping them on E-Bay as used, it would be easy to incur mild losses. And very few people keep all the receipts.

An acquaintance just wrote to me about helping a widow clean up her deceased husband's bikes. I suggested E-Bay this spring for some bike parts. It may well be non taxable. If it was children settling their parent's estate, it wouldn't be taxable until $13.6 Million for one, or $26.2 Million for both parents. That is a LOT OF EBAY SALES!!!

roadcrankr

Interesting angle there by selling under an estate tax ID, if possible.
eBay requires a tax ID and they issue the 1099 against that.
Entirely unnecessary to keep original receipts, unless it involves high-ticket items.
Again, zero bang-for-the-buck for the IRS to pursue small potatoes. They want the big fish.

CrimsonEclipse

Not really
I searched "bicycle"
went to the categories and selected "cycling" then "bicycles" in the sub categories, then listed by low to high, and it was all (most) bicycles

Granted, 14k

SurferRosa

OMG! It's like it's winter or something!