MDcatV

I'm thinking about breakaways alot lately while spinning to nowhere on the indoor trainer. Instead of yapping about wattage all the time, I thought I'd post some scenarios I've been in, good and bad, in hopes of prompting some tactical discussions. I've definitely eff'ed up alot of races

Scenario:

-circuit race, multiple laps that basically make it a hill repeat workout, finish at top of a hill (greenbelt for those who are familiar)

-mid way through 35-ish mile race, 2 members of another team attack on the uphill portion, one is multiple time nat. TT champion, other is very accomplished locally.

-you notice the situation, jump on the move, knowing that you're the smallest motor in the group

What do you do now?

a. pull through like a good breakaway participant
b. sit on and not pull through at all
c. pull through as you can
d. other

What I did:

a. was dropped shortly thereafter, absorbed by the pack (story of my racing life), breakaway finished 1/2.

What I wish I would have done:

b. they were/are team mates, it's their job to shake me, which they probably would have accomplished anyway. I dont think I had an "obligation" to work in this break since they had #s.

bdcheung

If they're teammates and you know you're outgunned, I would just sit on and tell them you won't contest the finish. Even just sitting on you're benefiting them aerodynamically, I think.

AlexTaylor

Like wot he sed.

Sounds like common sense, I have zero experience.

If I raced in a field of 10, there would be a 9 man breakaway within 2 miles and I wouldn't be in it.

merlinextraligh

Would try b if they'd let me. Failing that, I'd try to help the break within reason without getting myself dropped. Particularly if they didn't fear your sprint, they'd likely let you hang on if you were making some contribution to the break.

jamiewilson3

If you feel like the break may not hold, work as long as you can to help the break stick and probably blow up. Your team will finish 1/2 with your sacrifice, which is why it is a team.

If there is confidence that the break will stick, they should let you stay within yourself and the team finishes 1/2/3. You all let each other keep from blowing up so that you all max overall placing, which is why it is a team. You arrange who gets 1/2/3 by who needs points and/or did the most work, which is why it is a team.

substructure

I tried 'A' yesterday in a breakaway. But my pull-threw was not enough for the group in the break. I got yelled at. TWICE! Good times. Good times.

merlinextraligh

I think the OP meant the other two were each other's team mates, not his.

Clearly if the 3 of you are team mates, you'd give as much as you could.

wfrogge

Pull through at your own PE level. Dont try to match their power as it would be pointless and just get you dropped. That 10 seconds you pull gives them a little rest thus making the group faster. It will be obvious to the other two if you are the weak link so no need to explain it to them.

3rd place is better than getting dropped. If you dont work they will shake you off at some point

I dont like "cutting deals". Its a race so do your best.

chrys9989

Just curious would you then contest the finish, and just take third. Depending on the race. Or is this sport not like that?

MDcatV

not my team mates. sorry for the lack of clarity in my post.

bdcheung

o that changes things

substructure

One thing I was told yesterday - with extreme prejudice. When your working in a break, especially if the main field is not far behind, pull through hard then get out of the way for the next guy. Under no certain terms should it be weak enough to have the main field slowly work their way back to you. If you cannot do that, you have no reason to be here.

Then I think I heard a few derogatory words thrown around. Like I should move to San Fransisco or start an antique store.

aperez8264

B is the best bet. Even if they're stronger than you pull through, even if its only for 10 seconds. It gives them a slight breather, and helps the break stay away. As stated earlier 3rd place is better than getting dropped.

cmh

I like the antique store bit.

I've always thought the right thing to do is pull through maintaining the pace, but make your pull as short as necessary to keep from getting dropped. If you don't think you can keep the pace, sit on the back and skip a pull. Of course it is harder to define 'maintaining the pace' on a hilly course as in the OP's example.

Brian Ratliff

In that situation, being something of a sprinter, I'd pull enough to help, up to what I can do, but not so much as to blow up. I'd obviously contest the sprint. My short pulls are balanced by the fact that they have numbers. They have their chance to attack in a way that I'd be dropped, and I have my chance to best them in a sprint if I manage to hang on.

All you can do is what you can do, and three is better than two until the end, even if the third isn't pulling very much. If there are two guys, regardless of the team situation, who are good TT'ers with me as a sprinter, then they should know that they need to shed me somewhere short of 200m to the line with some attacks. If they are from different teams and cannot coordinate enough to shed me, then that's their problem, not mine.

It's either attack until the sprinter is dropped, or quit working and return to the fold. Unless you can arrive at an agreement, there is no real way to get someone to do what he doesn't want to do. Everyone is looking for the advantage for themselves, so if they are going to work, you have to make the argument that for the break to stay away, everyone has to work.

ottsville

Sounds like you are expecting the break to stick and it's likely that you will get dropped if you work. As such I think you are under no obligation to work. If they don't want you there, they can try to drop you, but it will be harder for them if you are just hanging on the back then if you are struggling to pull through where they can attack as you pull through and get a gap.

The other side is that you may disrupt the break enough that they get caught and it allows your team to counter....

Coyote2

I would work as much as necessary in order to avoid wrath, and no more. I'd be saving up for the sprint.

Snap

I think that I would take option C and pull through as I could. Most likely really short pulls and maybe miss a couple if I had to. How long I pull definitely depends on where on the course I am. I'm sure not pulling the fast guys up the hill to be dropped on top.

carpediemracing 

I'd plead weakness and see if I could hang on until the finish. Then sit up and let them take 1-2. If they are so strong then they shouldn't have a problem with you sitting on - they'd beat you anyway.

In one of the few successful breaks I infiltrated, I pleaded no-work - the two prior weeks I pulled and got dropped immediately. Some of the guys didn't like that, but the strongest guy in the break pointed out that if I got dropped, my (relatively numerous) team would chase. If I didn't get dropped until 10 to go, they'd win the race. So they let me sit on for 50 minutes or so. I eventually got 3rd out of 3, after two guys tried to win on their own and dropped themselves.

When dealing with superior power you have to be humble and be lazy etc.

cdr

YMCA

Tell them you'll take 3rd and sit on, so they can get down to their 2-man TT.
If you have top-notch teamates behind then plead "team duty", sit on and try to survive when the attacks come.

Fat Boy

When you watch big races on TV and they show break-aways, a lot of times they're have a scroll that shows who is doing how much work. Very often on that you'll see that over the last X minutes there are some riders that have never been on the front and others that have a huge percentage of time up there.

I'm sure they're getting yelled at. Who cares? Tell them to pack sand.

If you're worried about the break getting caught, then any work you can do will help. If you're pretty sure these 2 could stay away on their own, then you're under no obligation to pull. Sure it'd be nice and you'll feel more manly. Does that matter?

Do you contest the sprint? Depends. If it's an important race and there's money on the line, damn straight you do. If not, then it's more gracious to just slide in to your 3rd place.

The trick with trying to pull your weight is that it's real easy for 2 teammates to leave you out there for just a few seconds longer than they really need to and then you get popped. I bet that's what they did. If they leave you just a little too long for 4-5 rotations, then any little acceleration would be enough to say bye-bye. Especially since they were accomplished riders. It's 2 on 1. If you're playing nice, then you have to make sure they are as well.

Next time, just sit on. Who cares if they yell? Have fun with it. Yell back, "Mush, mush, mush......run sled-doggy, run!!!!"

umd

Hmm, not in a race but I was faced with a similar situation on a ride (that is often treated like a race) a week ago. There was a break of several guys and I bridged up... they opened up a huge gap and initially I pulled through a few times but as we started shelling guys from the break all that was left was 2 ex-pros and a teammate well on his way to cat-2-dom. After one final pull through it was clear that I wasn't going to last if I tried to be heroic so I just sat on the back. I started to feel like I was disrupting their rhythm, I didn't think the break was going to stick anyway, and we were approaching a good sized climb so I popped myself off and soft-pedaled back into the field. They were caught before the climb and another group attacked and just went up the climb at a comfortable pace, still pretty far toward the front of most of the group but with the leaders. So I guess, c. If it were a real race and I thought they might actually stay away I might have done b instead...

EventServices

Sit in and beg for a free ride. If they have a decent sprinter in the field, they would be smart to shed you so that he can get 3rd. Most likely, they're not smart.

kudude

in a TTT the weak guy pulls up the hill. You don't even have to pedal on the way down. Sucks to be at the front on the downhill.

seanmdo

My very first Cat 5 RR there was some guy who yelled at everyone in the paceline as we attempted to chase two riders. I kept doing work as if I was somehow obligated and wore myself out. Meanwhile a couple guys just sat on and got third and fourth. I learned my lesson. I live in Miami, so I can either play the no english game or the no espanol game (which is actually true), when the start yapping to do work. I don't minf doing some if I feel ok but if I feel like it costs me a chance to win or contest, then nope... No work for me. In that case, I'll be a first place wheel sucker. Like others said, it's a race, the objective is to win. If it was all about who is the fittest, then I would never come close to winning anything. I'm alright, but I do have a job and a wife so I can't ride 500 miles a week.