pinholecam

Thanks to the information shared and discussed in my previous thread, I decided to keep the bike and upgrade it to my requirements.


20170106-DSC02623 by jenkwang, on Flickr

Moulton TSR
Shimano 10sp XT Shifter and RD
55T Chainring
11-36T Cassette
Tektro brake levers
Wheelsport Sunny wheels

I wanted a road bar for the ride positions, but also wanted to run XT for the fantastic wide gear range and inexpensive but very good XT shifters and RD.
So got a cheap alu fixie bar that I could thread the shifter into the bar tops.



20170106-DSC02608 by jenkwang, on Flickr

IMO, MTB shifters on a road bar (that can fit) is a very good and more modern take on downtube or bar ends options.
Modern and precise indexed shifting within easy reach.
The XT shifter also shifts up 2 gears and drops 3 gears for fast shifting.
Very inexpensive too compared to brifters.



20170106-DSC02612 by jenkwang, on Flickr

I had rubbing of the thighs against the top bottle, so I had to "splurge" on an aero bottle and cage.


Bike fit seems much better now, including the adjustment on the front suspension to reduce the chance of bobbing to get better power transfer.
I will have to get a shim to fit a shorter stem to get to a better reach length for my needs.


Can't wait to try out the bike tomorrow on a proper ride.

reppans

Beautiful build! Gorgeous, I love it.

foldingdroid

You got a nice collection.

Rick Imby

Beautiful equipment...

tds101 

OK, that is a hot build!!! Quite impressive,...

jur

Beautiful build and photography!

invisiblehand

Sweet looking bike.

MTB shifters fit road bars now? Man ... I'm way behind the times.

Banzai

A shimano road shifter will shift a shimano MTB rear mech.

12boy

What are fixie bars? Those look like regular drop bars, not that there is anything wrong with that. Why do you need a shim for a shorter stem? Interesting build and good looking too.

pinholecam

Thanks to everyone for the comments.

Thanks,
I think I'm the one regressing from STI to separate brakes and shifter.

But I really like this type of setup.
This is the 2nd bike that I've setup like this.
A fraction of the cost of the brifters, which I don't need since I am not in a peleton when using a mini velo.
Main thing is that it runs the Shimano XT which is really good and a wide range cassette.


AFAIK, it only does with the older 10sp STI with 9sp MTB RD combi.
Not sure about the new 11sp stuff, but that will mean a new set of wheels, so I opted for something I know works well.

The other thing is that being in a rather 'conformist country', the exposure to odd ball mixing of parts is very low.
Most people just buy things 'as they are supposed to be' and the shops are unfamiliar with other possibilities.
If I go for any STI shifter + MTD RD, or 10sp/9sp type combi, I don't think I can easily find a mechanic/shop knowledgeable in this sort of thing.



Fixie bars are just road bars that usually are fitted on fixed gear bikes.
They usually have smaller bar diameters (same diameter as flat bars), so that the MTB shifter can be fitted thru.

The problem with the Moulton is that a lot of stuff seems odd sized (eg. stem, seatpost), so its a 1" stem, so I'd need a shim if I want to use a regular stem.

Banzai

Shimano pull ratios for the RD are the same across ranges, at least until 11speed. New 10 speed is back compatible to old 10 speed too. FDs did change. So, 105 shifter with Deore RD? Yes. SLX trigger shifter with Tiagra rear mech? Yes. Number of cogs just need to match the number of indeces on the shifter.

jur

I don't think that holds for Dynasys 10-sp derailers, these also require the dedicated shifter pull ratio.

Banzai

Freakin' Dynasys. You're right.

pinholecam

There is an option using Road Links that allow STI shifters with MTB cassettes, but I think it extends the RD down too much for small bikes

Abu Mahendra

Nice. I see you went with the Wheelsport Sunny. Good choice. Of the 3rd party wheelsets that I've had, the Wheelsports look to be the best.

I am aiming for a similar handlebar look in one of my future builds. Toward that end I've acquired a set of TRP RRL SR drilled brake levers...


What's that saddlebag?

pinholecam

Thanks for the assurance on the WheelSport Sunny.
It came with the bike when I bought it.
I've heard that the stock wheels that comes with the local version of the Moulton TSR 10 isn't too good and most folks upgrade it.


The bag is a Carradice Pendle on a Bagman support.
I took the opportunity of the low pound to get the bag that I've always wanted.

pinholecam

Here is a picture of the trigger shifter mounted on the bar.

XT Trigger shifter on road bar by jenkwang, on Flickr

Abu Mahendra

in case you are interested, Tiagra 4700 now has 11-34 cogsets, and its brifters run both shift and brake cables internally. The brifters, cogset and RD are all attractively priced.

pinholecam

Thanks for the info.
I did explore this option too.

The bike came with a Tiagra RD and shifter, but it was 4600 and can't use the 11-34 cog.
Dislike this 4600, it felt the worst out of the many trigger shifters I've used (even cheaper Shimano ones).
Very irregular pull feel on the trigger over the gear range.
Not the fault of the new 4700 of course, but the 4600 made me doubt going for 4700.

I also know and like how the trigger shifter setup works on my Raleigh MV8, and it is cheaper than the STI shifter option for the XT which is probably an ultegra level component.

Abu Mahendra

yeah, not a fan of Tiagra 4600, but Tiagra 4700 is a redesign that brings Tiagra in line with 105 5800 and Ultegra 6800. Cable pull is now all the same for these three new gruppos. The 105 5800 RD will work with the Tiagra 4700 11-34 cogset & brifters. You may even be able to use a 10-speed 11-36T cogset with the Tiagra 4700 GS RD.

pinholecam

I forgot to mention about the ride.

I actually rode twice during the weekends.
About 50km each ride.

Its still preliminary and I did not turn on Strava on my phone (don't use any speedo on any of my bikes anymore)


Something's changed in the ride for sure and I felt it when I rode it home after picking it up from the shop.
It felt faster, even though I had jogged some 10km to pick it up, but I put that away as 'new bike syndrome', and awaited better confirmation when I rode with some friends on the longer weekend rides. (If I got dropped, I will know the reality of it )

I can't put my finger on what made the difference.
On the previous setup, the Tiagra with 11-25T always felt heavy to pedal at the last 3 cogs.
With this new setup, XT with 11-36T, I found myself easily going for the last 2 cogs most of the way (thats 11T, 13T)
The bike is also much faster, being the 2nd bike in the small group of riders and overtaking some roadbikes along the route.


There is a sense that the TSR goes faster on a flat road, as I seem to be able to pedal smoother as opposed to climbs where perhaps the weight of the bike and some bobbing somewhere begins to eat into the speed.

At this point, I would think that the overall combi of road bar positioning (vs an upright flat/touring bar position) and bike fit greatly aided the transformation of the ride for me.

I will need to turn on my Strava to get a more numerical based evaluation.

pinholecam

Took the bike for 2 weekend rides.

The Saturday one was with a group of friends using road bikes on a more hilly specific route.
The TSR was able to keep up quite well, on the way to the more hilly part of the route.
I still think that it climbs slower than a road bike, ending with me behind a number of riders when usually I'd be in front on my tri-bike.

One big problem came on the steeper of the climbs when I found that the chainline to the last 2-3 cogs was too acute and that resulted in 2 cases of chain drop.
Upon inspection, I think one reason is that the bike came with a square taper BB with too long an axel.
I've not had this problem on my other 2 bikes with Shimano Hollowtech.
I'll have to get this solved if the bike is to be ridden for overseas rides.
Probably a change to a shorter axel (sq taper) BB for now.



The Sunday ride was more measurable in the sense that I have recorded the same route/speed for my other bikes as well.
Assessment?
I am impressed.
The bike was certainly fast, especially on the flat stretches.
I recorded my fastest (small bike) time on a long flat stretch (and fast most portions) (individual effort).

Certainly an unexpected turn to my initial doubts about this bike.
If there are some things I'd attribute it to, I'd guess, the tightened front suspension (but not to the point of no suspension), the moving of the saddle forward (better fit for me), and the more aggressive riding position with the drop bars (as well as aerodynamics).

onbike 1939

I followed the same route as you have on my two Moulton bikes (TSR27 and Esprit) regarding the shifters and would never go back to Brifters. Came up against the same problems with the diameter of the bars when fitting trigger shifters but opted for Bullhorn bars and feel that these suit the configurations of the frames very well.

I do think that you are a bit over-optimistic in using a single chain-ring to gain a wide gear-range however. I would have thought that a double chain-set would have provided such a range without pressing the limits.

The bike does have a lovely clean look to it though so well done.

jur

Great build and great feedback! I have 2 comments/questions:

Climbing ability: What is the total weight difference between you on your tri bike vs you on your Moulton? Could the weight difference explain the climbing deficit? And how much time do you spend climbing in the saddle vs out of the saddle?

Chain drop: Is there any measure implemented to prevent chain drop? The Moulton has a VERY long chain so acute angle can't explain chain drop. Roadies and especially tri bikes have shorter chain stays. Most likely your chain drop might be simply due to lack of prevention? See the FAQ for an explanation.

pinholecam

Same feeling as you regarding brifters.
Unless I am going to ride in a tight peleton where the rapid shifting reaction is necessary, I don't think I will opt to use brifters on any future bike I setup.
Bar-ends came up as an option, but not keen on friction shifting.

1x10 will certainly have its limitations wrt the gear spread, but it suffices for my needs and I try not to plan tours in mountainous areas.
The back up plan for the TSR using XT is that I can opt go either 40T (3rd party cassette) and reduce the chainring to 50T if necessary or covert to 2 chain rings if absolutely needed.



I would think that both weight and suspension bob will play a role in the reduced climbing ability.
For one, after adjusting the front suspension firmer, I did find climbing better than before.

All my smaller wheeled bikes climb slower than a road bike.
A 700c bike 'rolls over' many of the shorter slopes (wheel/momentum) or it only gets harder 2/3 of the way up, as compared to a 20" wheeler which gets tougher 1/3 of the way.
I don't climb out of the saddle.

Yes, I think the chain drop can be due to the lack of prevention too.
I might want to get a chain keeper as well as a shorter axel BB (maybe a bash guard too)..
Whats the FAQ that you refer to?