woodcycl

We've been riding a 2005 Cannondale road tandem for 12yrs now and have a few miles on her. I think we are ready to begin looking into a nice carbon Calfee. However, I have a great LBS and am considering buying the frame/fork combo and having my LBS build the rest of the bike.

We are trying to stay semi-smart with the total outlay of $$ given these tandems are ~$12k to ~$14k after all is said and done. So, for now, we'll go with a naked or single color and without couplers. Also considering the Tetra over the Dragonfly to save a few $$.

However, I'm undecided as to components / drive-train for our tandem. We are a 300 to 315lbs tandem team (my weight varies unfortunately) and our typical weeknight 25 to 30 mile ride has 1500 ft climbed with nothing more than 12% grade. Weekend 50 to 100 mile rides can go up to 5000 ft climbed and occasionally up to a 23% grade max but not typically over 18% for more than a 1/4 mile or so. We currently have a triple with 170's on front and rear, 105 FD, and Deore XT RD. Both me and my stoker are shorter folks with short inseams. I'm 28.5in (5'7" tall) and I believe she is very similar (5'4"tall).

I've heard great things about the double chainrings using larger FD cages to offer the larger tooth cogs in the back (up to a 40 tooth cog?) I am ALL FOR having nice easy gears even if we only use them once a week for 5 minutes. I'm a spinner so even with a triple, we usually stay in the middle ring and still average 18 to 20 mph on most rides.

Some options I have looked at, but don't really have any idea what is considered better than another: a) daVinci crankset with all chain rings with IRD square taper BB b) FSA carbon crankset SLK lite with 11-40 cassette XT
c) Timing chain or Belt Drive??

So, thoughts on components and drive train?

Also, thoughts on going thru Tandem's East vs. direct thru Calfee? I'm open and flexible. Again, given the high $$ of entry into this arena, we are wanting to be somewhat thrifty and plan ahead, but also want the best equipment and setup if we are going this route.

I'm even selling my beloved Yamaha FJR1300 to help pay for this endeavor. But, will still need to come up with another $6k or so. We are NOT wealthy folks. So, this is a HUGE consideration for us.

Any thoughts or suggestions is appreciated.

oldacura

We went with Mel at Tandems East for our new Calfee. We have been pleased. We went with the Tetra and Ultegra Di2. To do this we gave up the triple ring. If I were to do it again, I may go with mechanical shifting so we could keep with triple rings. Electronic shifting is nice but it adds another level of complication (think software upgrade and charging). If you want a wide gear range with 2 rings, the drop from the big ring to the small is huge. I think we went with the top component package on Mel's site (AA?). Our bike was in the price range you cite.

We went from an 18 year old Co-Motion steel bike to the Calfee. Aside from the lighter weight, the thing I appreciate most is the plush ride.

I think you can go directly with Calfee (Rob?). The price will be about the same. Take care in your measurements to make sure the bike is sized correctly for you. Good luck.

merlinextraligh

Several threads on here with Calfee build specs that would be worth looking through.


Some additional thoughts:


1) I would definitely go with a belt. the weight savings there is close to the difference between a Dragonfly and a Tetra, and the belt is clean and low maintenance;


2) Go nude. IMHO it's a good look, and saves money, and cuts delivery time. It's also saves a surprising amount of weight, which makes it the absolute cheapest way to save weight.


3) Consider electronic. Di2 shifts fantastic, and IMHO it really makes a difference with a tandem. We're using Dura Ace Di2 with a modified K Edge RD, mid compact cranks. So our current climbing setup is an 11-36 cassette and 52/36 chain rings, for a direct 1:1 low gear. We can set it up as low as 34/40 if we needed to. Dura Ace Di2 is a bit pricey, but you can get the same function with Ultegra.


4) We bought direct from Calfee and that worked fine. The bike ships almost completely setup, with little assembly. If you're confident doing minor work on the bike, I don't see a big need for a local dealer. If you want more hand holding use a dealer

diabloridr

My stoker and I went through a similar exercise about a year ago: https://www.bikeforums.net/tandem-cyc...long-post.html.

I would encourage you to seriously consider moving to a double chainring groupo - it's becoming increasing clear that triples are an endangered species (Doubles are even starting to fall out of favor on single bikes...). Electronic offers measurably improved shifting performance, but you could stay mechanical if you need to save a few $$$ - just make sure the frame is built to be Di2 compatible. My recollection is that Calfee has very little demand for tandems with triples these days - nearly all are being built with Di2.

You could also stay with a timing chain to save some additional money, but make sure the frame is designed to allow later installation of a Gate's belt.



If you have any doubts about being able to properly spec your frame design directly from Calfee, I'd recommend using a trusted, tandem-experienced, local shop as an intermediary. The piece of mind will easily offset the additional cost.


Good luck and be sure and report on how everything turns out!

OneIsAllYouNeed

You can get a nice new custom bike for much less than $12k, but it won't be a Calfee. I just spent about $4k for a new fully custom, coupled titanium tandem. It's 36lb including pedals, cages, couplers -- and durable components that I wouldn't hesitate to tour on. I recommend taking a serious look at your goals and priorities for the new bike. Everyone's priorities are different. Imagine all the things you might do in the next 12 years with this new tandem. Being as specific as necessary helps a lot, too -- i.e. know what overall gear range you want and allowable steps between gears. For us, we wanted a bike that climbed better and had more tire clearance than our previous bike -- without giving up anything on handling, cargo carrying ability, durability, comfort, or fit; could travel by train or airplane; could fit child and adult stokers; had brakes that wouldn't require adjustment during wet gravel races; and left money in the budget to actually go places with it.

Back to your original questions...
Calfees are really nice, but they might not be most appropriate for your budget.

DaVinci cranksets are lighter, but not as stiff as FSA SL-K cranks. If you're a powerful team, I'd avoid square taper BBs. The SL-Ks are only available in 170 and 175mm lengths, but it sounds like you're okay with that.

Belt drives are marginally lighter and more expensive than chain drive. They excel in different conditions. I'd recommend maintaining the option for both. If you want a really long or short stoker compartment, chains are your only option.

3x9 gearing with 52/42/29 x 11-34 gives you the same range and spacing as 2x10 with 52/34 x 11-40. For the same gear range and cost, a triple is marginally lighter than a double. The best reasons to pick double over triple are: SRAM road shifters, Q-factor (only if you really get different cranks/BB), easier Di2 setup, cool factor.

oldacura

[QUOTE=merlinextraligh;19715634]Several threads on here with Calfee build specs that would be worth looking through.




2) Go nude. IMHO it's a good look, and saves money, and cuts delivery time. It's also saves a surprising amount of weight, which makes it the absolute cheapest way to save weight.


Nude CF is an acquired taste. It is cheaper and lighter but personally I don't like the look. We were on a recent tour. Another couple had a nude bike. Many folks told us "that is a beautiful bike". I don't think the other couple got that reaction. I do like the look of our bike. However, if you like the nude look, who cares what others think?

twocicle

[QUOTE=oldacura;19716534]Well, our experience is opposite and in line with merlinextraligh. For the casual cyclist, a pretty paint job will elicit gaga. For more serious cyclists, the nude looks just mean and to business. We have had plenty of "incredible" and "mind blowing" comments, including directly from pro Tony Martin who was impressed.

From a practical stand point, we have had both painted and nude. We do travel with it, and I prefer to spend my time riding vs. extra time caring for a paint finish only to see scratches and dulling over time. Our nude still looks like new after a couple years of riding many thousands of miles and some trips abroad.

Leave the paint on your honey's nails.

FWIW, on our Dragonfly frame we had the Calfee logos painted on instead of decals. More durable (packing for trips in the past has messed up plenty of decals).

woodcycl

Just learned there is now Di2 3 ring component options available for tandems ... interesting.

Artmo 

I wonder why no-one has mentioned the SRAM etap Wifli wireless? If I were changing from from triple, that's the way I would go.
It's really impressive.

mtseymour

XTR & XT Di2 has always offered a triple option. Are you saying that Ultegra 6870 or 8070 Di2 is now available for triple cranks?

If you already climb 12 or 18% grades, then a double crankset (50/34) should be adequate. The new Ultegra 8070 rear derailleur can handle 34T cassette, and you even go to a 40T cassette using Roadlink hanger extension.

My vote is for Tetra over Dragonfly because you can get similar weight savings (eg. carbon wheels, Lightning cranks) at lower cost.

Gate CDX belt is better than timing chain.

For a new build, the Ultegra Di2 is better than eTap because it's less expensive, has longer battery life, and has synchronized shifting. The MT800 display is handy too. eTap's wireless shifting is more convenient for coupled tandems and older frames with external cable routing. With either system, electronic shifting means never missing a front shift under load and minimal maintenance.

merlinextraligh

Major reason I was suggesting nude is that paint is a $700 option, so if budget is a concern it's an easy way to save $650 (Nude costs $50.)

And if you're going Tetra as opposed to Drangonfly for budget reasons, you get some of the weight difference back by going nude. The weight of the paint on a tandem frame is surprisingly heavy. (IIRC Ritterview posted the numbers and is something like half a pound or more).

As for aesthetics, that is obviously a totally personal choice, and as Twocicle points out the reaction to nude vs a flashy paint job may well depend on the audience.

That said I like the look of our bike, and it never fails to turn heads.

Paul J

We are at the Tandem's East Tandem Weekend and one of the couple's have a brand new Land Shark with the XTR Di2 triple.it is a great looking and working bike. I think I would Prefer the triple set-up.

merlinextraligh

What are the rings on the crankset.

My understanding is that one of the limitations of going with an XTR triple set up is the size of the biggest chain ring you can use

yamsyamsyams

FYI the FSA SLK cranks are not only available in 175/270, as someone else said. Just called them last week and they're offering 175/172.5 for captain, and 172.5/170 options for stoker.

Paul J

I will check that out today.

zonatandem

Carbon fiber?
After 14 years and over 45,000 miles of riding we are still smiling!
Our custom Zona is is a fully lugged frame. Clear coat over the main frame and the lugs are black with minimal gold overspray.
At ages 84 and 82 we've cut down on our weekly miles a bit.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Paul J

Here are some (not great from my phone) pictures I took. Not great but you can get the idea. It looks like the chain set is 52/39/30 and the cog is 11/40. Several of the Bikes at Tandems East Tandem Weekend were set-up with the Double Di2. These folks had just gotten this bike and were loving it. It was funny, we got rain for a few mile on the Friday afternoon ride and this bike is definitely not a "Trailer Queen" :-) they didn't miss a beat. Saturday's ride had over 1,500 feet of climbing with a couple of section at 15% and Sunday had a steep climb with similar %.

oldacura

We bought our 2015 Calfee Tetra through Tandems East about 18 months ago. We are running Ultegra Di2. At the time, XTR Di2 limited the size of the big ring to about 48t. Ultegra limited us to only 2 rings. This bike obviously has XTR in the rear. Does anyone know if 3 chainrings are now possible with Ultegra or if one can go bigger than 48t using an XTR front derailleur?

merlinextraligh

By Shimano spec, the largest compatible chainring for XTR Di2 (STR FD-M9050 Di2) is 40 teeth.


https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-XTR001-09-ENG.pdf


https://www.rosebikes.com/article/sh...138/aid:789140




Just because it falls out of Shimano specs doesn't mean it doesn't work. Shimano is very conservative in their specs to make sure that the combinations they say it will handle it does in fact handle seamlessly.


Apparently, it's working for the Landshark team.


I remain rather skeptical of the wisdom of the application, when you're pushing that far past spec. I'd want to try it, talk to a number of people using that combo, and talk to a Shimano rep before I pulled out the credit card for it.

merlinextraligh

Also, when you have the option of going to a cog as big as 40, and 11 speeds (allowing smaller jumps between gears) how many teams actually still need a triple?


That Landshark has below 1-1 gearing, without even using the inner chain ring.

pdlpsher

Yes. We really enjoy our new 2x11 drivetrain with a 11-40 cassette. The wide range cassette (pioneered by Sram?) has really changed the game. Due to the wide range cassette, we rarely execute front shifts as we could go as slow as 8mph (and still have two cogs left so cross-chaining is not an issue) and as fast as 35mph while using the 50 ring. Each time one executes a front shift normally you also have to shift the rear by one or two cogs. So by not having to execute front shifts improved the riding experience dramatically.

Campagnolo has a patent filed for a 12-speed system. It's only a matter of time when we start seeing a 2x12 system! My dream setup would consists of a 11-45 cassette. Along with a 50 front ring I can pretty much leave the chain on the 50 except on extended climbs where a better chainline matters more.

TCW2

SRAM's mtb Eagle is 1x12 speed with a 10-50 cassette. It's almost like they're trying to push folks to 1x11/12 setups even on their road components. I know a few people already running 1x11 Sram stuff on their road bikes. I wouldn't be surprised, however, to see them doing a 2x12 system (perhaps they've already announced it).

oldacura

When the opportunity presents itself (long moderate downhill) we still run out of gears on the top end (52x11). Above 45mph we can tuck but I'd still like to pedal above 40mph when we can. This is what differentiates us from single bikes. We are a bit below 1:1 on the low end (34x36) and I'm not willing to give that up either. I understand the advantages of eliminating the front derailleur. If someone can tell me the advantage of 2 rings over 3, please do so (other than Shimano chooses not to offer 3x).

pdlpsher

By having a wide range cassette one can just leave the chain on the front large ring, and not have to shift the front derailleur very often. The wide gaps between gears on the wide-range cassette isn't really a problem. Any tandem rider can attest that a tandem slows down and speeds up much faster than on a single bike. So having wider gaps on the rear cassette is actually a benefit as one would end up shifting less than if the bike was equipped with a close-ratio rear cassette. In your case a mid-compact double front (36-52) and a 11-40 cassette would be ideal. It would give you the same 52x11 and an even lower 36-40 for the hills. But keep in mind that the beauty of a double setup is not so much to provide additional gear range. The key is the wide ratio cassette which eliminates a lot of the shifting up front. I can comfortably pedal at 8mph on the big ring with still two gears left on the cassette. On a triple one wouldn't leave the chain on the big ring below 10mph as the severe cross-chaining could damage the derailleur and create additional wear/friction in the drivetrain. On a double setup cross-chaining is less of a concern as the big ring is closer to the bottom bracket than on a triple setup. I went from a triple (30-39-53; 11-36) to a double (34-50; 11-40) and the difference is night and day. I will never go back to a triple.

diabloridr

Largely what is driving this is (1) the move to 11 and 12 speed from earlier cassettes and (2) the influence of this on single (mostly mountain bike) parts builds.


Our Speedster was 3x9, but that netted only 20 useable gears (3, 9, and 8 respectively)


The Machiatto is 2x11, but gives us 21 useable gears.


Hi end is slightly limited compared to the 3x9: 11-50 vs 11-52.


Low end is also limited: 32-28 vs 36-34


However readily useable low end is *much better*: 32-42 vs 36-34.


No longer are we forced to making high-torque shifts down into the small ring when a hill is tougher than we anticpated, so consider us satisfied converts.