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7 speed uniglide to 8 speed hyperglide

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7 speed uniglide to 8 speed hyperglide

Old 09-02-19, 09:12 AM
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7 speed uniglide to 8 speed hyperglide

I have a 7 speed Shimano Sante group on my 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred. Replacement cassettes are insanely expensive. Wondering whether spacing between 7 and 8 speed cogs is the same. If so, I would switch out the 7 speed uniglide hub for an 8 speed hyperglide hub, slap on an 8 speed cassette and use the lower limit screw on the RD to avoid the smallest cog. Has anyone done this?
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Old 09-02-19, 09:30 AM
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They don't seem that expensive on ebay the trick is finding something smaller than a 28 or 32T for the low gear. This is $28.59

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Hyp...kAAOSwmcNdbCF9

I've done a 6 to 7 speed and I don't see why you coundn't do a 7 to 8 but I'd get a low milage hub and use the whole axle set except the left cone.
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Old 09-02-19, 09:35 AM
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the spacing is real close, but slightly narrower on the 8spd and shifting may not be as reliable or precise if you're original shifters are indexed. you can swap out the freehub, but what i've done is just put a new 7spd HG cassette on the UG hub and reused the outermost threaded 13t cog to lock it down. the cog wasn't worn down, though, so i could actually still use it
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Old 09-02-19, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by thook View Post
the spacing is real close, but slightly narrower on the 8spd and shifting may not be as reliable or precise if you're original shifters are indexed. you can swap out the freehub, but what i've done is just put a new 7spd HG cassette on the UG hub and reused the outermost threaded 13t cog to lock it down. the cog wasn't worn down, though, so i could actually still use it
^^^This is what I would do.

You will need to find a 7s cassette that already starts with the 13t, or shorten an 8s cassette that starts with the 12-13t progression

You can then mitigate much of the spacing disparity of an 8s cassette by separating the cogs and then using your old 7s spacers.
Note that the 7s spacer between the 2nd- and 3rd-smallest cogs is thicker than the rest and usually darker in color. You must keep this spacer between the 2nd- and 3rd-smallest cogs of your installation!

I use only a thick chainsaw file to reduce the thickest internal spline within each HG-style cog.
The cutting work need not be very precise as the wide spline is being taken out of the picture, no longer providing any driving force against the freehub body.

The threaded smallest cog may at some point need refurbishment if/when it allows a brand-new chain to skip under heavy loading.
So don't throw it away. Just grind a tidy 1mm bevel up at the driven-side corner of each tooth, and the new chain likely will no longer have any tendency to skip over the cog teeth under power.

I took a poor photo of the bevel applied to a single tooth, below. Do not make the bevel quite as large as this, just enough to remove the rearward-facing sharp point that interferes with a new chain's ability to fall between the teeth when driving tension is being applied to the chain. See top tooth marked "ba".
Note again that this bevel is a bit too large, and that this cog is hardly worn at all.


Last edited by dddd; 09-02-19 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 09-02-19, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
They don't seem that expensive on ebay the trick is finding something smaller than a 28 or 32T for the low gear. This is $28.59

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Hyp...kAAOSwmcNdbCF9

I've done a 6 to 7 speed and I don't see why you coundn't do a 7 to 8 but I'd get a low milage hub and use the whole axle set except the left cone.
Hyperglide cassette won't fit on a uniglide hub, will it?
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Old 09-02-19, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by revcp View Post
Hyperglide cassette won't fit on a uniglide hub, will it?
You can change out the freehub body to an HG one for about $20.
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Old 09-02-19, 11:03 AM
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7-speed Shimano cassette or freehweel spacing is 5.0mm. 8-speed Shimano cassette spacing is 4.8mm. It's enough of a difference, aside from the Sante lever not being designed to index 8 gears, that you will have trouble shifting it smoothly, unless you put it into friction shift mode. More importantly, if you have a 7-speed freehub body (that the cassette slides on to), it will not accommodate an 8-speed cassette as an 8-speed is wider.

Due to the narrow/wide 'keyed' spline for a Hyperglide freehub body (and thus cassette), a Uniglide freehub body, with it's equal spline widths, will disallow a Hyperglide cog or cassette from being mounted. However, if you take a rasp to the inner spline on a hyperglide cog (and do it for all 7, mentioned above), you can file that width down to work with the Uniglide spline system. It's only a few mm, and it takes less than 5 minutes per cog.

I see that replacement (Dura-Ace) Uniglide cassettes are stupidly expensive, but $14 and some filing would get set you right.

But the bigger question remains: why do you need to replace a Uniglide cassette? These things will survive the apocalypse--they're incredibly tough.

Here is a Sheldon Brown cog spacing reference sheet for you and everyone else--absolute gold.
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Old 09-02-19, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by revcp View Post
Hyperglide cassette won't fit on a uniglide hub, will it?
Originally Posted by seypat View Post
You can change out the freehub body to an HG one for about $20.

That is what I thought the OP was asking about doing. Iv'e done it with 6ug to 7HG, so I don't see why it can't be done 7 to 8
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Old 09-02-19, 12:33 PM
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I always warn about changing the freehub body, which can be problematic on a couple of levels!

First thing is that the body has to use the matching hardware (cone, spacers, locknut, seal and or sealing ring). Mixing and matching parts heare can defeat the sealing, cause metal-to-metal contact friction and/or change the axle spacing on the cassette side.

The second thing is that different hub shells often space the freehub body one way or the other toward or away from the spokes!
No problem then if you took all of the needed parts from the very same hub that was just a year or two removed from the older Uniglide hub, but mixing higher level parts with even one step lower parts OFTEN results in unwanted changes to how the cassette is positioned.
I've had no-go situations arise when changing freehub bodies on 600/Ultegra-level hubs with 7700-model Dura-Ace hub parts, and also with parts taken from lower-level hubs! The change was pretty drastic and it wasn't something you could correct by adding or removing a spacer washer.

One more thing is that if you have a bench vise, filing away enough of each HG cog's one wide spline should not take more that 30 seconds per cog using a round chainsaw or rat-tail file. The metal cuts easily with any decently-sharp file.

Last edited by dddd; 09-02-19 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 09-02-19, 12:48 PM
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I've done the narrow/UG only to wide/UG/HG swap ten or fifteen times, each time with success. There are times I've had to mess around with cones and seals, but not always. And it helps if you have some experience disassembling and reassembling hubs to service them so you know what looks and feels right.

Easiest way in this case would be to buy a complete Shimano 6402 rear hub and use the entire axle and freehub assembly, as mentioned above. Other models of Shimano freewheel MIGHT work or might abe able to be MADE to work, but as noted above, there may be problems to work out. And yes, using your 7 speed indexing shifters will result in acceptable shifting; for the 8th gear, just continue past the last indexing detent and use the limit screw to keep the RD fro traveling too far.

Another alternative is to keep it 7 speed but use a narrow 7 speed freehub that accepts BOTH UG and HG like a 6401. Then you can buy any HG freewheel and use the sprockets from it you want with your 7 speed spacers.

Yet another possibility is to embark on the track of eventual modernization by just purchasing a modern 8-9-10 speed hub and lace it into your existing rims (or buy a complete matching wheelset). Those Sante shifters will happily friction shift all the way across an 8-9-10 speed cassette as they are all the same width. Not everyone thinks 10 speed friction is a thing, but I have it on several bikes (including one that was used at Eroica) and find it only takes a few miles to get the hang of it.
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Old 09-02-19, 12:56 PM
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I remember being more than a little frustrated, while trying to figure out 7-speed wheels. 😉 I have a 7-speed cassette on an Exage Hyper-Glide hub, that looks like half the axle is taken up by spacers, on the NDS. 🙄 😁
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Old 09-02-19, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
I see that replacement (Dura-Ace) Uniglide cassettes are stupidly expensive, but $14 and some filing would get set you right.

But the bigger question remains: why do you need to replace a Uniglide cassette? These things will survive the apocalypse--they're incredibly tough.
Indeed they are tough. And, when they are worn, unlike Hyperglide cogs, you can flip them over to double their life.

At the bike Co-Op I volunteer at, we always have a multi-pound supply of Unliglide cogs. We sell them for $1 each.

I personally would take some superior-shifting Hyperglide cogs, and grind them to fit. Takes just a few minutes per cog by hand. Or seconds with a Dremel.
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Old 09-02-19, 03:55 PM
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it must depend on the generation of UG hub if HG cassettes are to fit. my first gen 6spd UG hub will not fit an HG without grinding, but the second gen 7spd hubs on my 700c matrix/deore dx and 26" ritchy/deore dx fit an HG cassette without mod'ing. at some point, i'll swap them out with new 7spd freehubs, but it was just simpler at the time to go the way i'd described above due to what i'd learned (what dddd explains) when considering the swap

edit: i admit, too....i know nothing about the sante grouppo, but i assumed it had to be newer than my 6spd. i think it has to be the absolute first type of freehub made because i can't convert it at all to an HG. totally different

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Old 09-02-19, 06:11 PM
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OP here

Thank you, everyone, for the responses. To clarify, the only reason I was wondering about this is that 8 speed hyperglide cassettes appear to be more readily available and less expensive than 7 speed uniglide cassettes. I don't need "better" shifting, as I find the Sante index shifting to be quick and precise. I was not aware that the cogs can be flipped, essentially doubling the lifespan of a cassette. Neither did it occur to me that I could effectively modify hyperglide cogs to work. And since Sante is 7 speed, it sounds like it might be second generation, so perhaps compatible with hyperglide. Great, great stuff. Thanks again!
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Old 09-03-19, 04:59 AM
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Take a close look at your UG freehub body. If one slot for the splines on the cassette is wider than the other slots, it is a UG-HG hybrid body. Also look for threads on the inside lip of the body where a HG lock ring threads into place.

Saving and utilizing the spacers from your 7 speed cassettes and using sprockets from new 8 or 9 speed cassettes is also an option. Just purchase the less expensive models which have a retaining screw or a rivet holding them together. I've even mixed SRAM and Shimano sprockets in the same custom cassette.
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Old 09-03-19, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by revcp View Post
Thank you, everyone, for the responses. To clarify, the only reason I was wondering about this is that 8 speed hyperglide cassettes appear to be more readily available and less expensive than 7 speed uniglide cassettes. I don't need "better" shifting, as I find the Sante index shifting to be quick and precise. I was not aware that the cogs can be flipped, essentially doubling the lifespan of a cassette. Neither did it occur to me that I could effectively modify hyperglide cogs to work. And since Sante is 7 speed, it sounds like it might be second generation, so perhaps compatible with hyperglide. Great, great stuff. Thanks again!
Now that you mention it, I installed a 7sp HG cassette on my 7s Sante hub with no modifications needed. I didn't know of two generations of Sante, other than that there was a 7s freewheel hub and freewheel offered in addition to the 7s cassette hub.
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Old 09-04-19, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Now that you mention it, I installed a 7sp HG cassette on my 7s Sante hub with no modifications needed. I didn't know of two generations of Sante, other than that there was a 7s freewheel hub and freewheel offered in addition to the 7s cassette hub.
This winter I'll be tearing the bike down to have the frame powdercoated. I'll be repacking the hubs at that time, and I'm looking forward to seeing whether the Sante freewhee hub is compatible with a HG cassette.
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Old 09-04-19, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by revcp View Post
I have a 7 speed Shimano Sante group on my 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred. Replacement cassettes are insanely expensive. Wondering whether spacing between 7 and 8 speed cogs is the same. If so, I would switch out the 7 speed uniglide hub for an 8 speed hyperglide hub, slap on an 8 speed cassette and use the lower limit screw on the RD to avoid the smallest cog. Has anyone done this?
Here's an old trick from the days when Uniglide was common. ALL the cogs except the small screw on one can be flipped and thus give you in effect a new cassette. Just unscrew the smallest cog then pull off all the other cogs. If they are joined together by pins file or grind off the heads (I do that at the back of the largest cog) then separate all the cogs. Now put the cogs back onto the cassette body but with the cogs facing the opposite way they did - that is any number on the cog would now face towards the hub and not be visible.

There's also a You Tube video for the adventurous that shows how to combine parts from a Uniglide and a Hyperglide body to build a Uniglide hub compatible cassette body that'll take Hyperglide cogs.


If you do use Hyperglide cogs on your Uniglide body then I recommend that after setting the low and the high limits on your derailleur that you adjust the shifting by shifting to the middle cog and then adjusting the derailleur until it shifts to the next lower cog. Doing that minimizes the accumulation or the differences in cog spacing between the 7 and the 8 speed systems.

Cheers
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Old 09-04-19, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by revcp View Post
This winter I'll be tearing the bike down to have the frame powdercoated. I'll be repacking the hubs at that time, and I'm looking forward to seeing whether the Sante freewheel hub is compatible with a HG cassette.
I looked up Sante cassettes on the web and all I saw were Uniglide style ones. It's possible the reply above was done with a Hyperglide body conversion oto a Sante hub.

For what it's worth, I've seen quite a few UNIGLIDE cassettes on the web at very reasonable prices.

Cheers
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Old 09-04-19, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
I looked up Sante cassettes on the web and all I saw were Uniglide style ones. It's possible the reply above was done with a Hyperglide body conversion oto a Sante hub.

For what it's worth, I've seen quite a few UNIGLIDE cassettes on the web at very reasonable prices.

Cheers
Now you've got me wondering, since the HG cassette I used is from SRP, so there is at least some chance that it had been previously modified to fit on a UG hub, since I remember using it in re-spaced form with Command shifters so many years ago. I can however confirm that it uses a threaded smallest cog in lieu of a lockring. It's just a little buried right now (my Schwinn Circuit is), and I'm heading out the door just now so won't be able to check it right away. The Sante freehub itself is certainly bone-stock as I remember pulling the original UG 7s cassette off of it just last season
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Old 09-04-19, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Now you've got me wondering, since the HG cassette I used is from SRP, so there is at least some chance that it had been previously modified to fit on a UG hub, since I remember using it in re-spaced form with Command shifters so many years ago. I can however confirm that it uses a threaded smallest cog in lieu of a lockring. It's just a little buried right now (my Schwinn Circuit is), and I'm heading out the door just now so won't be able to check it right away. The Sante freehub itself is certainly bone-stock as I remember pulling the original UG 7s cassette off of it just last season
I have an unusual transitory Shimano hub her that'll take either Uniglide cassettes with a scre-on final cog or it'll take a Hyperglide cassette with the screw-on lockring. That's because this freehub body has bother external threads for the Uniglide screw on cog, and it has the internal threads for the Hyperglide screw-on lockring.

Cheers
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Old 09-04-19, 08:22 PM
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if anyone happened to read the original post vs this one, nevermind the nonsense. brain misfiring

anyway, i have three UG/HG compatible hubs; two deore dx and one 105 (i didn't realize was also hybrid). they're all 7spd and all have external and internal threads. however, the outer axle seal sits further outboard than the HG only hubs. i never noticed the internal threads on these because of the seal. so, thanks @Miele Man ! now, i no longer have to consider any sort of axle/freehub swap. i can get HG cassettes to my heart's content.

@revcp you're sante hub is likely the same since it's 7spd

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Old 09-04-19, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by revcp View Post
Thank you, everyone, for the responses. To clarify, the only reason I was wondering about this is that 8 speed hyperglide cassettes appear to be more readily available and less expensive than 7 speed uniglide cassettes. I don't need "better" shifting, as I find the Sante index shifting to be quick and precise. I was not aware that the cogs can be flipped, essentially doubling the lifespan of a cassette. Neither did it occur to me that I could effectively modify hyperglide cogs to work. And since Sante is 7 speed, it sounds like it might be second generation, so perhaps compatible with hyperglide. Great, great stuff. Thanks again!
And another possibility:
Buy an 8-speed HG cassette that has the cog tooth counts you want, disassemble so that you have individual cogs, then re-assemble but eliminate one cog (including those filing suggestions above) using your 7-speed spacers. The only thing to watch for are 8-spd cassettes that use a spider for the bigger cogs, since they canít be re-spaced.
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Old 09-05-19, 01:07 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
I've seen quite a few UNIGLIDE cassettes on the web at very reasonable prices.
What's your definition of "reasonable," and where are you finding these? Google yields results confined to ebay and a few select other places, and I'm seeing $60 and up as the rule.
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Old 09-05-19, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by revcp View Post
What's your definition of "reasonable," and where are you finding these? Google yields results confined to ebay and a few select other places, and I'm seeing $60 and up as the rule.
I saw some somewhere on the web yesterday for around $30.00 but can't remember just where they were.

Another option is to switch out the Uniglide freehub body for a Uniglide/Hyperglide one. Then you can you use Hyperglide cassettes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Uni....c100008.m2219

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