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How to waste $2,000 on an exercise bicycle.

Old 02-20-20, 07:10 PM
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How to waste $2,000 on an exercise bicycle.

Flywheel STOPS all virtual classes, giving customers a month to trade in their soon-to-be-useless $2,000 bikes for Peloton models, after admitting it copied its rival

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-Peloton.html
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Old 02-20-20, 07:42 PM
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Can someone explain the Pelaton phenom to me? From my glances at tv commercials, the bikes are expensive, the service per month might be be as well, but it appears to me you have to manually adjust resistance yourself via that red knob.
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Old 02-20-20, 07:49 PM
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If you need a video person to inspire you to ride in the comfort of your home, more power and less money to you.
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Old 02-20-20, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg View Post
Can someone explain the Pelaton phenom to me? From my glances at tv commercials, the bikes are expensive, the service per month might be be as well, but it appears to me you have to manually adjust resistance yourself via that red knob.
It's a spin bike, so yeah- there is a handle/knob/lever to adjust resistance.
Why is that something that seems odd? do you expect it to adjust for resistance through telepathy?
Shifting requires input- whether its pushing a shift lever, rotating a grip shift, or pushing a button. Same on spin bikes.

As for the expense- it depends on if it's used like most all exercise equipment. If it allows the owner to exercise on their schedule and the owner meets health goals they otherwise wouldnt realistically meet, then is it expensive or is it worth the cost? Only the owner knows since they place value on the product.

This is the same process for all exercise and health related cost based activities- health clubs, traditoonal gyms, in home equipment, cross training gyms, etc etc.
It's all expensive compared to doing pushups, situps, and jump rope at home alone. But will everyone do that?
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Old 02-20-20, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
It's a spin bike, so yeah- there is a handle/knob/lever to adjust resistance.
Why is that something that seems odd? do you expect it to adjust for resistance through telepathy?
No, wireless just like a smart trainers do absorbing a specific power output in erg mode or simulating a given gradient with apps like Zwift.
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Old 02-20-20, 09:23 PM
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A fool and his money are easily parted......

Somehow I have a hard time feeling sorry for them. Same thing with the Fyre festival. A concert costing tens of thousands of dollars turns out to be a rip-off? No kidding...

The inventors of bikes never imagined them being used in the house and not moving.
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Old 02-20-20, 09:41 PM
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An online group experience, seemingly becoming more popular in our culture. This one is about exercise, better than watching other people playing video games, imho. But i just ride my bikes outside, on real pavement.
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Old 02-20-20, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
It's a spin bike, so yeah- there is a handle/knob/lever to adjust resistance.
Why is that something that seems odd? do you expect it to adjust for resistance through telepathy?
Shifting requires input- whether its pushing a shift lever, rotating a grip shift, or pushing a button. Same on spin bikes.


As for the expense- it depends on if it's used like most all exercise equipment. If it allows the owner to exercise on their schedule and the owner meets health goals they otherwise wouldnt realistically meet, then is it expensive or is it worth the cost? Only the owner knows since they place value on the product.

This is the same process for all exercise and health related cost based activities- health clubs, traditoonal gyms, in home equipment, cross training gyms, etc etc.
It's all expensive compared to doing pushups, situps, and jump rope at home alone. But will everyone do that?
Telepathy? Of course not. it is called Ergo or ERG mode on resistance trainers with power. It allows Zwift or similar app to control your resistance unit for you. Hence how Zwift can resistance-simulate mountain climbs without any uer intervention. Thing with Peloton, and why it gets crap....It is $2,500USD for a dumb exercise bike with a 1080p LCD bolted to it. For that much money there should be a power meter with a resistance unit capable of doing ERG for you. Seriously. For $2,500 you can buy a cheap beater roadbike and a $1,000 power/ERG resistance trainer, and still have money left over. No dumb idiot red knob to turn and self-adjust wrong.

And then you need to pay Peloton $50/month for classes to use the thing. Being a closed system--you can never get 3rd party software/classes.
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Old 02-20-20, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
No, wireless just like a smart trainers do absorbing a specific power output in erg mode or simulating a given gradient with apps like Zwift.
that's in an individual game vs a group spin class.
If there are spin class bikes that are auto adjusting for resistance, I didnt realize. That seems like a wonky class since everyone would have the resistance changing at the same time, bit be at different points in distance due to variations in speed and effort.
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Old 02-20-20, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Telepathy? Of course not. it is called Ergo or ERG mode on resistance trainers with power. It allows Zwift or similar app to control your resistance unit for you. Hence how Zwift can resistance-simulate mountain climbs without any uer intervention. Thing with Peloton, and why it gets crap....It is $2,500USD for a dumb exercise bike with a 1080p LCD bolted to it. For that much money there should be a power meter with a resistance unit capable of doing ERG for you. Seriously. For $2,500 you can buy a cheap beater roadbike and a $1,000 power/ERG resistance trainer, and still have money left over. No dumb idiot red knob to turn and self-adjust wrong.

And then you need to pay Peloton $50/month for classes to use the thing. Being a closed system--you can never get 3rd party software/classes.
Zwift is an individual program vs a spin class which is a group. I guess there may be spin class bikes that all auto adjust at the same time, I havent ridden one or heard of that.
I've used 4 different spin bikes and 2 are 'smart' from a power to weight algorithm perspective, but all use different manual tension adjusters. Lever, knob, etc. It just seems like such a non-issue and I've never seen a class of bikes all linked up to auto adjust, that I didnt realize it's a thing.


I was not advocating for peloton earlier, i was simply explaining why it may be of value to some people, even if it's a waste to others.
for your example, yes it's an lcd bolted to a spin bike, but if someone doesnt want to go thru the process of finding and buying a bike that fits, then finding and buying a smart trainer, then hooking it together- then an all in one unit has value.
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Old 02-20-20, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Zwift is an individual program vs a spin class which is a group. I guess there may be spin class bikes that all auto adjust at the same time, I havent ridden one or heard of that.
I've used 4 different spin bikes and 2 are 'smart' from a power to weight algorithm perspective, but all use different manual tension adjusters. Lever, knob, etc. It just seems like such a non-issue and I've never seen a class of bikes all linked up to auto adjust, that I didnt realize it's a thing.


I was not advocating for peloton earlier, i was simply explaining why it may be of value to some people, even if it's a waste to others.
for your example, yes it's an lcd bolted to a spin bike, but if someone doesnt want to go thru the process of finding and buying a bike that fits, then finding and buying a smart trainer, then hooking it together- then an all in one unit has value.
Zwift can be either-or.

The women's Canyon/SRAM UCI pro cycling team has for 4 years now been running Zwift simultaneous group rides/workouts as a young-up-and-coming-talent recruitment tool. Winners get short-listed to come to their IRL training camp; and then grand-winner gets a professional contract for a year on a pro cycling team.

https://zwiftinsider.com/canyon-sram-zwift-academy/

https://zwift.com/p/zwift-academy-terms-and-conditions
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Old 02-20-20, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Zwift can be either-or.

The women's Canyon/SRAM UCI pro cycling team has for 4 years now been running Zwift simultaneous group rides/workouts as a young-up-and-coming-talent recruitment tool. Winners get short-listed to come to their IRL training camp; and then grand-winner gets a professional contract for a year on a pro cycling team.

https://zwiftinsider.com/canyon-sram-zwift-academy/

https://zwift.com/p/zwift-academy-terms-and-conditions
Yes I'm aware of the academy. I dont understand what any of this has to do with the appeal of peloton though. Zwift academy is about as far from a peloton group spin class as it gets. Totally different user base, different skill level, different goals, etc etc.

Zwift is an individual exercise and potentially competitive video game and Peloton is a virtual interactive group exercise with continued encouragement.
They are both ways to exercise, but that's about where the similarities end, so why compare?
A Prius and a Silverado both have 4 wheels, but they are designed and marketed for different users.
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Old 02-21-20, 03:16 AM
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Would work for me.
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Old 02-21-20, 04:45 AM
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Seems like those Peloton machines are technically unicycles.
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Old 02-21-20, 05:51 AM
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Spin classes are what they are and they apparently work for a lot of people. They are not bicycling and really have nothing to do with bicycling except that the machines have some similar parts.
The article linked in the op has literally nothing to do with bicycling, and no one is going to discuss the patents issues raised in the case in this forum.

Do we really need a thread about whether or not other people should like what they like? How is "how much should you pay for a red knob" a subject people on a bicycling forum should have anything interesting to say?
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Old 02-21-20, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Zwift can be either-or.

The women's Canyon/SRAM UCI pro cycling team has for 4 years now been running Zwift simultaneous group rides/workouts as a young-up-and-coming-talent recruitment tool. Winners get short-listed to come to their IRL training camp; and then grand-winner gets a professional contract for a year on a pro cycling team.

https://zwiftinsider.com/canyon-sram-zwift-academy/

https://zwift.com/p/zwift-academy-terms-and-conditions
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Yes I'm aware of the academy. I dont understand what any of this has to do with the appeal of peloton though. Zwift academy is about as far from a peloton group spin class as it gets. Totally different user base, different skill level, different goals, etc etc.

Zwift is an individual exercise and potentially competitive video game and Peloton is a virtual interactive group exercise with continued encouragement.
They are both ways to exercise, but that's about where the similarities end, so why compare?
A Prius and a Silverado both have 4 wheels, but they are designed and marketed for different users.

Zwift Academy is a marketing tool more akin to the Publisher's Clearing House than a real talent development tool.
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Old 02-21-20, 07:08 AM
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I don’t waste head space on how others spend their money.
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Old 02-21-20, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Yes I'm aware of the academy. I dont understand what any of this has to do with the appeal of peloton though. Zwift academy is about as far from a peloton group spin class as it gets. Totally different user base, different skill level, different goals, etc etc.

Zwift is an individual exercise and potentially competitive video game and Peloton is a virtual interactive group exercise with continued encouragement.
They are both ways to exercise, but that's about where the similarities end, so why compare?
A Prius and a Silverado both have 4 wheels, but they are designed and marketed for different users.
I don't think eg. Zwift and Peloton are really that far away from one another. Actually, it's possible to imagine that a peloton trainer could put a training event on Zwift (there are lots of these aside from the Academy stuff) that matches what they'd do if they were only on Peloton. A bunch of events on Zwift I think people can and do chat with one another via some Discord app (though I've never tried). The remaining missing piece is seeing a camera view of the group's physical trainer.. so this only difference (solves for chatting too) could be solved with a Webex-type window running on your laptop.
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Old 02-21-20, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I don't think eg. Zwift and Peloton are really that far away from one another. Actually, it's possible to imagine that a peloton trainer could put a training event on Zwift (there are lots of these aside from the Academy stuff) that matches what they'd do if they were only on Peloton. A bunch of events on Zwift I think people can and do chat with one another via some Discord app (though I've never tried). The remaining missing piece is seeing a camera view of the group's physical trainer.. so this only difference (solves for chatting too) could be solved with a Webex-type window running on your laptop.
This has quickly devolved into the absurd. Its funny to see it claimed that they arent far from one another because all thats needed to make them effectively the same is to hack one(which hasnt happened) to work with the other and then use an additional laptop running a webex. The platforms that engage users are totally different and while both can serve the same goal(exercise), they go about it differently.


edited- i removed a lot of this post because i just scrolled thru the thread and i am posting the most frequently and defending something that i dont actually care about. im out.
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Old 02-21-20, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post

edited- i removed a lot of this post because i just scrolled thru the thread and i am posting the most frequently and defending something that i dont actually care about. im out.
And I was just going to quote you for truth.

Yes. Value is in the eye of the beholder. I am booked in 1st class for my flight to my June tour. The extra cost is worth it to me. Wonder how many people who rail against spending X on Y either cannot afford to or have psychologies that prevent them from doing so.
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Old 02-21-20, 09:45 AM
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To get to the OP's original question, I'd guess that Peloton is popular because of marketing. TV commercials and popup shops in the malls, etc.
I'd guess if you asked the folks shopping at the mall for one of these if they've ever heard of Zwift, 90%+ would say no.

Comparison (leaving aside the cost which was previously discussed).
Peloton: Separate bike
Zwift: Use your own bike w/smart trainer

Group training Peloton: Yes
Group training Zwift: Yes

Auto Intensity/resistance Peloton: No, manual
Auto Intensity Zwift: Available or Manual option

Interface Peloton: Video
Interface Zwift: Virtual
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Old 02-21-20, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Spin classes are what they are and they apparently work for a lot of people. They are not bicycling and really have nothing to do with bicycling except that the machines have some similar parts.
The article linked in the op has literally nothing to do with bicycling, and no one is going to discuss the patents issues raised in the case in this forum.

Do we really need a thread about whether or not other people should like what they like? How is "how much should you pay for a red knob" a subject people on a bicycling forum should have anything interesting to say?
Exactly. Peloton is for people who enjoy spin classes to attend them remotely at home. Spinning != cycling. Spin machines resemble bikes in certain respects, and there might be some overlap in the people who go to spin also ride bikes, but they're really separate things.
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Old 02-21-20, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
To get to the OP's original question, I'd guess that Peloton is popular because of marketing. TV commercials and popup shops in the malls, etc.
I'd guess if you asked the folks shopping at the mall for one of these if they've ever heard of Zwift, 90%+ would say no.

Comparison (leaving aside the cost which was previously discussed).
Peloton: Separate bike
Zwift: Use your own bike w/smart trainer

Group training Peloton: Yes
Group training Zwift: Yes

Auto Intensity/resistance Peloton: No, manual
Auto Intensity Zwift: Available or Manual option

Interface Peloton: Video
Interface Zwift: Virtual

OP didn't post a question.

I have no idea what question this comparison between Zwift and Peloton is supposed to be answering.

If the question is "why is Peloton popular", here's a radical idea: ask someone who uses Peloton. There don't appear to be a lot of them lurking in General Cycling.
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Old 02-21-20, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Exactly. Peloton is for people who enjoy spin classes to attend them remotely at home. Spinning != cycling. Spin machines resemble bikes in certain respects, and there might be some overlap in the people who go to spin also ride bikes, but they're really separate things.
From the following link.. https://pumpsandiron.com/2014/05/26/...you-just-took/

"Spinning is a trademarked name, and is what you might think of as the traditional bike class you’d take at the gym (more common a few years ago). It’s based off outdoor cycling, so if you wouldn’t do it riding a bike outdoors, you don’t do it on the stationary bike. The workouts are supposed to replicate situations you might find yourself in on the road or in a race, and are built around heart rate zones—there’s actually a huge emphasis on this and wearing a heart rate monitor is strongly encouraged. Classes are each focused on different training types as well. Monday might be a strength ride, while Tuesday is a recovery ride, Wednesday an endurance ride, and Thursday a race day (you simulate a road race on the stationary bikes, pushing your hardest at the highest gear you can)."
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Old 02-21-20, 10:32 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
From the following link.. https://pumpsandiron.com/2014/05/26/...you-just-took/

"Spinning is a trademarked name, and is what you might think of as the traditional bike class you’d take at the gym (more common a few years ago). It’s based off outdoor cycling, so if you wouldn’t do it riding a bike outdoors, you don’t do it on the stationary bike. The workouts are supposed to replicate situations you might find yourself in on the road or in a race, and are built around heart rate zones—there’s actually a huge emphasis on this and wearing a heart rate monitor is strongly encouraged. Classes are each focused on different training types as well. Monday might be a strength ride, while Tuesday is a recovery ride, Wednesday an endurance ride, and Thursday a race day (you simulate a road race on the stationary bikes, pushing your hardest at the highest gear you can)."

So? "If you wouldn’t do it riding a bike outdoors, you don’t do it on the stationary bike" is completely meaningless, and obviously untrue--I don't know anyone who rides outdoors with a "trainer" facing them and yelling encouragement.

Fact of the matter is I don't know anyone who actually rides bikes outdoors to any large extent who also does spin classes. That they've abstracted a heart rate-based schedule from race training doesn't make it bicycling..

BTW, this post you linked is really more of a sales pitch by a "certified" spin instructor, explaining why their form of indoor cycling is somehow superior to others.

Last edited by livedarklions; 02-21-20 at 10:39 AM.
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