CyclingBK

I’m fairly new to cycling, about 6 months. I have been strength training and doing about 30 minutes of cardio (step machine/elliptical) for 4 years. In fact, gym cardio being so boring is one reason I wanted to get a bike.

I’ve had a good bearing on my diet, try to eat around 2000 calories, 100 grams protein, moderate carbs.

My cycling has been around 3 days a week for 10-15 miles and I haven’t changed my diet much.

But I finally did my first 20 miles and hoping to consistently ride that and build up to more.

Im pretty slow, around 14mph on a hybrid but I was thinking, even at that speed, at 165 lbs, 1.5 hours or more on the bike can burn 800 calories or so and that’s a pretty big dent.

So, just curious how people eat. Clearly, to maintain weight, muscle mass from lifting, I will eat more. But do you eat more of any specific foods/categories? And do you try to eat a lot before you ride and what do you eat? Appreciate any ideas.

redlude97

i think your calorie estimate may be a bit high, maybe more like 600 calories for 1.5 hours. Assuming you aren't going into the ride fasted, then your glycogen stores should be pretty topped off and you could get by with no food on the bike if you want. Then eat back half the calories you burned is a good rule of thumb

wolfchild

I don't keep track of how many calories I burn on my rides or during my workouts...However I do sometimes count how many calories I eat, especially on days when I do longer distance rides...I need to be eating between 3000-4000 calories per day just to maintain 160 pounds of bodyweight. I am actually around 157 pounds right now despite eating a massive amount of calories per day. On days when I do longer distance rides I can easily eat around 5000 calories and not even gain any weight. My diet is very high in carbs and protein with moderate fat intake.

Machka 

I go with 100 calories for every 5 km. That pretty much matches what Strava tells me. Close enough!

If I ride for 1.5 hours, I usually cover about 27 km, or about 500 calories and a bit.

If I want to maintain, I need to eat 1500 calories + my exercise calories, so if I ride for 1.5 hours that equals 2000 calories.

If I want to lose weight, I need to eat 1500 calories and not bother replacing those 500 exercise calories.

That's how it works for me.

jpescatore

The standard guidelines are to consume 30 - 60 grams of carbohydrates per hour of riding, which equates to 120 - 240 calories consumed which will offset 30 - 50% of the calories you burn. That translates to about 16 oz of a sports drink and a packet of fig newtons. If you are drinking more sports drink and eating those 300+ calorie sports bars, really not hard to ingest 75% of the calories you are burning, so not much need to change any eating habits! On organized rides, with well stocked rest stops every 25 miles or so, I'm pretty sure I end up eating as much if not more than I burn.

The only thing I do differently for long rides is to try to eat more protein before the ride (like peanut butter on an english muffin) and after, since during the ride I'm eating mostly carbs.

Carbonfiberboy 

No, I never eat a lot before I ride. If anything, less. While one might get hungry on the bike when starting to do 20-30 mile rides, that goes away with more time on the bike. For rides up to ~30 miles, I don't eat on the bike. After the ride, I usually eat a little something, a bagel, some soup maybe. Otherwise just my normal day-to-day diet and quantity. That said, I think it's always a good idea to carry one water bottle with some sports drink in it on every ride, just in case I start feeling a little weird.

In addition to the above, when I do say 40-100+ mile hard training rides, all-out to exhaustion, I definitely eat on the bike in the quantities described in post 5, and will have a pint of a strong sugar/whey protein recovery drink after, then keep eating bits of carbs until I get a meal. But don't worry about that until you're doing that.

I ignore calories burned reported by any electronic device except my power meter. Power meters report total kilojoule output, which translates directly into calories burned. Heart rate monitors, wrist devices, etc., are horribly inaccurate, often reporting double the calories actually burned.

OBoile

To speak to this point, I did an FTP test today and recorded power on both my trainer and my crank based PM. The crank based PM sent it to my computer which, being wahoo, computes the calories burned based on HR, not on the actual work being done.

So, in Strava, I've got the following:
Trainer - 221 watts avg power and 575 calories burned (603 Kj of work done)
Crank based PM using HR - 209 watts avg power (this is a bit low as I forgot to turn it off for a minute or so at the end), and 728 calories burned (588 Kj of work done)

So a direct example of your point, the HR based number is way off.

Seattle Forrest

A few years ago I upgraded my Garmin (watch). I disconnected the old one from my power meter, and rode with it in my pocket, connected to my chest strap. Wanted to see how its estimates compared. It was almost always too high, sometimes by as much as 45%, other times by as little as 5 kCal over the course of several hours. There was no way to know how much error was in the number it gave you; it could be reasonably close, more often it was way over. Not reliable.

I guess how imported that is depends how much time you spend riding. On the other hand, in the winter I like cross country skiing, there isn't a better way to estimate calorie burn than HR, and I know better than to trust it.

travelerman

For rides under 30-35 miles, nutrition - simple calorie replacement - is more a matter of responding to what your body and brain require. It's when you ride to and past attrition that you need to be more attentive to caloric replacement, with more particular attention paid to the activity, balance of carbs, proteins, and fat, and timing to promote recovery and prevent bonking.
Not everyone processes nutrients the same, so following specific percentage rules for protein-carbs-fat is useless, for the most part. I never gain more that 2-3 lbs any time of the year, and my only loss is during the hotter part of the year, through dehydration, sometimes as much as -4 lbs from average (which I replace within a few hours).
For myself, my body tells me what I need to consume when riding under the attrition rate - when my rides exceed 35 miles or so, that is when I have to be more careful, and eat while in the saddle (or at rest stops), and before I get hungry. I never really have to concern myself with counting calories per se, but rather counting carbs during a ride to make sure I do not deplete.
If you begin riding longer distances - those that use up all of your glycogen stores - then you will likely need to be more concerned about calories. If you are staying strong and not drifting far plus-or-minus from your average weight, I would just listen to my what my body tells me...

CyclingBK

I appreciate the replies and experience.

Sounds like I don’t need to change much until I’m consistently riding quite a bit more distance.

But even with what I’m doing now distance wise, cycling drives a nice appetite but still keeps you trim.

bruce19

If you think you can measure calorie burn from exercise accurately, learn to live with disappointment. All the various formulas will give you is a ballpark figure. There are too many variables to allow dead on accuracy. If you are interested in losing weight, exercise can be a benefit but the best way is to reduce calories. I would start with less intake, exercise regularly and eat real food. Eliminate or reduce alcohol, manufactured foods and sugar. See the results and modify if needed.

CyclingBK

In my case, I’m interested in maintaining and possibly adding muscle mass as my riding increases.

The answer overall is simple...eat more ; ) But I’m interested in a few specifics as far as the cycling side goes.

Carbonfiberboy 

How to proceed depends on your current fat percentage. What you want to do is very difficult. Why do you want to add muscle mass? Do you know your bodyfat percent? Have you been taking key measurements? The answer overall is not simple at all, though that all depends on your goals, endgame.

CyclingBK

Heres some background.

Im 51, a little over 5’8 and 4 years ago I was in lousy shape and weighed about 182. As a former “Uncle Rico” who gradually worked out less and less through the years until basically not exercising at all for 5 years, I said, “gotta make a change”

I started lifting and working out religiously, nothing crazy but here’s what I’ve been doing,

3 days a week, lifting. Heavy, compound lifts, Saquats/Deadlifts, Bench/Shoulders, Back Rows/Pulldowns. Usually 5 sets x 5-10 reps to failure.
3 days a week cardio, 45 minutes, step machine mostly.

4 years later, I’m 165, I have had a slight calorie deficit but I definitely look like a guy who lifts regularly. Not sure about the ratio of fat lost to muscle gained and I understand gaining muscle while losing fat is very difficult but whatever I’ve been doing, I’m very happy with the results.

So, I hated gym cardio and got a bike in August and love it. I’m just getting to 20 mile rides.

Im not necessarily making gaining muscles mass a goal, I’d be happy to just keep increasing my strength in my lifts, but certainly want to maintain mass.

I don’t think I have to make any changes until and unless I start riding farther and faster. Hoping to to a bit of both this year ; )

As far as my body fat percentage. I really don’t know. Going by google pics, lol, I’d say I’m getting to 15% or so.

Carbonfiberboy 

That all sounds good to me. If you wanted to really get into cycling, you'd have to ride a lot more and lift less. Say 10 hours/week total, 8 cycling, 2 X 1 hr. lifting. 100 miles/week year 'round average is good. Work up to that a little at a time. Measuring is good, say bicep, belly, thigh once a month. Belly can go down, the other two hold steady or up a little bit, not much. BMI is good now, could come down a little.

Seattle Forrest

A power meter has a maximum error of about 5% for bike calories. If you just change the label from kilo Joules to kilo calories, you put yourself in the middle of that range, so the number you get is +/- 2.5% of the actual truth. You can rent a power meter, probably locally, and online if not. If you get to the point where what you're doing stops working and you want or need more precise numbers, rent a PM for a week.

I think we're all assuming this is for road cycling, is that right?

There's a lot of controversy about whether weight training has any benefit for road cyclists. But there's no question it's great for health and fitness. Don't let anybody talk you out of it.

CyclingBK

Thanks Carbon and Seattle.

My goal is to maximize overall fitness and strength by combining equal weight training and cycling. I really like both.

Id say my overall realistic goal would be to lift for 45 minutes 3 days and get to the level where I can cycle 3 days for 1 to 1.5 hours those days.

Way short of 100 miles a week but given my baseline, I’d be happy with it. If I could be doing 20+ mile rides, 3 days a week, and get to 15+mph average, that would be fantastic. I try to “push” each ride and not just cruise around.

One issue is that it takes me 2 full days for my legs to recover after squat/deadlift day.

As far as if I’m “road cycling”...I think so, lol!

I picked up a cty 1.1 hybrid. It’s a bit heavy at 27 pounds but besides the flat bars, I think the overall geometry is good for now. I ride the 3.3 mile loop at Prospect Park and generally never need my brakes. But I know my speed will be limited and while a 20 mile ride is still very comfortable, a road bike is ideal
if I get more serious and want to go farther faster.

Appreciate the advice and encouragement. Here’s the bike...

ThermionicScott 

Failure training has its fans, but I suspect you're going to run into recovery issues with that workload eventually. You can get away with it for a while when you're just starting out (and when you're young), but you need to give your muscles time to build back up after breaking them down. I seem to recall that it's taxing on your nervous system, too.

I do like the emphasis on big compound lifts! Maybe consider just having one day of failure or "max effort" (higher weight, lower reps) per week, and other days could be 2x10 or 3x8 with a bit lighter weight and not to failure. Sort of like the low-intensity "recovery rides" we cyclists try to do.

CyclingBK

TS, lol, I should have been more clear and, you’re right, if I did all that work every lifting session, I’d never recover. I couldn’t imagine even trying that even if I was 20 years old again.

I only do *one muscle group each day. So the fitness calendar I shoot for is,

Sat/Sun-ride or cardio if it’s too cold
Monday-rest
Tues-ride or cardio
Wed-squat/deadlift
Thurs-back
Fri-chest shoulders

I average about 10 working sets per session, about 30 minutes . And I rest a lot between sets. I’d like to add 5 sets of some type of isolation move to each day.

Ive been doing this for about 4 years. Trying to keep it sustainable for the long haul.

Cycling has been that missing link to make the cardio much more interesting/enjoyable so I can do it longer.

CyclingBK

I figure I’ll just add what I eat....


Pretty much eat the same most days but switch it up on weekends a little.

M-F

Breakfast, fage yogurt. Banana. Maybe some Cheerios is I’m extra hungry.

Lunch, I eat early. About .4 pounds of salmon, chicken, or turkey and greens.

Snack on Cheerios in the afternoon and an apple

Protein whey shake before workout

Dinner, .4 pound of chicken, fish, occasionally pork or beef. Carbs-potato, pasta or rice. Green veg.

Ill throw in an egg sandwich morning after leg day or on weekends but pretty consistent otherwise.

And I’ll definitely take opportunities to eat decadently at restaurants, what have you, every now and then.

I guess if I start cycling a lot more I’ll need to bump up, but seems like I’m quite a ways from that. Can’t imagine how much you guys eat if you cycling 100 miles a week and more.

ChrisAlbertson

Are those "flat pedals"? If so, get some bike shoes with cleats and matching pedals. Not only will you go faster but you will exercise both sides of the legs and keep balance. Next step. Buy a cadence sensor and place the cadence readout front and center. This is more of a teaching tool than a workout tool. Teach outself to always keep the cadence number over 80 and maybe around 90. But certainly over 80. This is easy to do. If you see you are going 70 RPM, shiply downshift and spin the pedals up. Learn what 80 to 90 feels like.

With a bike you want "power" which is very different from "strength".

The other thng if you want to improve is to not just ride at th speed you can do for the aloted time, even if you push hard for the whole time. Progress will happen but it will be slow. The best plan is to mix it up. Do a full-on sprinted for 30 seconds then go slowthen a 3 minutes sprinted then slow. Ride up a hill untill you can't continue then coast down. Your AVERAGE rate might be just as fast but yu need peaks that are well above average then a short recovery.

Lifting is exacely like this when doing reps you alternat from high to low effort. That is how we get better.

So get a HR monitor and see if you can make it go way-up then drop to 80 then five minutes at 125 and 3 at 140. (using my numbers, you'd be higher as you are 10 years yonger) But all the time keep the cadence above 80. Use gears to change up the effort.

With rolling hills and car traffic and lghts all this happens automatically but on a flat ciruit track you have to think like lifting, in terms of reps and sets. o a set sets of 30 second sprints then a set of 3 miutes slower sprints and 10 minutes of slow cruising.

But get pedals, if nothing else they stick your feet to the pedals when dong 100 RPM. Which kind of cleats hardly matter.

Carbonfiberboy 

This is what I do:
Sat/Sun-ride or cardio if it’s too cold -This is long hard ride day, lots of hills.
Monday-30-45 minute recovery ride, at a slow and even but not deep breathing effort, 90 cadence.
Tues-indoor ride, then back & chest shoulders
Wed-whatever biking I can do - an endurance hour or intervals
Thurs-bike of some sort, then squat/deadlift
Fri-endurance pace ride
Sat - off

I rest 1 minute by the clock between sets. Yes, my max lift is lower but my endurance is greater and statistically, my injury risk should be lower. I use short rests because I'm not a powerlifter. My goals are to maintain or slightly increase muscle size and increase endurance. For me, strength training is to maintain life-long strength and flexibility and maintain or improve cycling performance over the years.

Riding for an hour before lifting doesn't bother my lifting at all, not even doing intervals. Different energy systems. In my 50s, I used to ride home from the gym too, doing hill sprints on the way home. Really fun after doing legs, really.

joelcool

I'm in a similar situation to you. I'm 57, started my fitness kick around 49. I started out around 200#, I'm still between 190 and 200, but fat percentage is in the single digits.
I try to lift 3 or more days / week, and ride 100+ miles / week - commuting helps a lot.
My typical commute round trip is 30 miles and 1100 cal (measured by a power meter). I try to do longer rides on the weekends, but sometimes life gets in the way.
Body weight is certainly a metric to watch, but it should be looked at as a sum of a whole bunch of stuff. Fat, muscle, water, etc...
I tracked my calories for a year on myplate. That was very educational.
Carbonfiberboy always has good advice.

CyclingBK

Yes, just stock everything the way the bike came. And I appreciate the advice. I like this bike but really need some “gear”. Pedals, meters, I don’t have anything. In fact, the only times I have really measured my cadence and watts (sorry if I use terms incorrectly) is on this very decent stationary bike at my gym that has a cool display that shows them. So, Im getting a good feel for what 90 rpm is like and the wattage. And I have to say, you guys who blow around at 20mph are in some crazy shape. I’m just getting to the point I can hold 150 watts for like maybe 5 or 6 minutes and 180 for 2 minutes tops.

I gotta just ride more. Very much appreciate these training tips as well on how to mix up intensity levels during rides.

CyclingBK

Thanks, as always, carbon. Impressive training regiment. You clearly emphasize cycling but the strength training is solid. It’s great, right?

For now, I have an equal emphasis on strength training and cardio. I really like lifting, getting stronger and hitting new goals with lifts.

I’m hoping that my cardio moves more exclusively to cycling as the weather warms because I really dig it and want to see how far I can take it. Just getting to be a 16 or 17mph cyclist who can consistently ride 20 miles is a goal for the next year or two. It may take longer. I pretty much ride the loop by my place exclusively. But hoping to meet some folks who do the 30 mile+ rides out in the “burbs” and really take it to the next level some day.

Btw, I do try to do at least one cardio session with some emphasis on moving “side to side” and that involve your arms. As opposed to just moving in a “linear” way.