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Bob Jackson World Tour build

Old 03-27-20, 09:38 AM
  #1  
pauliewalnuts
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Bob Jackson World Tour build

Hi folks,

First off thanks to all the contributors on this forum, I have spent countless hours reading and researching.

I originally wanted a vintage frame (Raleigh Randonneur) but I have been waiting too long for one to come along in my size so have decided to buy a new bike. I have poured over all the options available within my budget (Kona, Salsa, Surly, Trek etc) and not one of them grab me enough to have me part with my money. if I spend that much money on something I want to adore it, both functionally and ascetically.

After coming across Bob Jackson frames I have decided that these are exactly what I want, beautiful bikes and from reading around here - a great reputation. So if I buy the the World Tour frame I will have around €1,000 to spend on the rest. Is this enough money? I will be getting my LBS to build the bike.

Any recommendations on what groupset to use within my budget? This will be my first time doing anything like and I'm a bit lost. I already have a Brooks B17 from by Basso Paris Roubaix that I can move over.

The bike will be used for commuting, day trips and hopefully a weekend or longer touring in the summer. This will be my first foray in the world of touring.

Any advice must appreciated.

Paul

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Old 03-27-20, 09:00 PM
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Your best bet is to give your L.B.S. a call. Some of the pricing is going to be dependent on what level parts you would want them to build it up with. Outside of a group set there are other factors like tires, rims handlebars, tape, headset, seat post, pedals. Assuming that you will build it with cantilevers, I don't know if those are part of a cyclocross group. I don't recommend a cyclo cross group, as it will not come with a suitable touring crank. Sorry to babble, but I do not even think that there is a "touring" groupset. I believe it is going to have to be pieced out, honestly. ,
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Old 03-28-20, 05:23 AM
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Not to mention racks, bags and/or whatever you’re going to carry stuff with, and any stuff.
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Old 03-28-20, 06:19 AM
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Thanks for your replies, my LBS are experienced in building custom frames so I am sure they will be able to map out what I need. I guess I was hoping to buy a groupset to make things easier for myself. I was hoping to go in with some idea of what I needed instead of going in blind. Will I be able to build a bike worthy of the frame with this budget?

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Old 03-28-20, 08:22 AM
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as per the Euros mention, are you in the UK?
are you thinking of going dropbars?

oh, just looked up the bike and see its a UK based company, so you probably are from there.
I did see that it states that the bike takes only up to 32mm with mudguards/fenders--Is that something you are comfortable with? You'd be surprised how one can get used to wider tires, and as someone who toured a lot in the past on 28 slicks, Ive very much come to appreciate larger tires in the 35-38 for paved riding on regular roads--although as a Brit, you would never imagine how our paved roads in Canada take a real beating from the freeze-thaw cycles and temps from -35c to +35c in a given season, and a zillion "slightly above 0c days and wet roads down to -20c overnight" cyles, that create potholes that you cannot imagine.
All that to say that wider than 32mm is nice often and helps a lot with making life easier on the wheelset due to more suspension effect, not to mention the positive effect to the lump riding the bike!

this frame is also rim brake only, have you ever considered discs? Riding a lot in the rain, even with fenders, puts so much more grit onto rim braking surfaces, and its nice not to have to clean your bike so often to keep pads and rims clean of this grit. Ive ridden and still ride numerous rim bikes, and its not a real issue, but I do make a point of keeping my bikes clean after rain riding with fast and easy rim wipes upon returning home, helps with long term wear.
Having owned a mech disc bike now for a while, Ive come to appreciate discs, although there certainly are all kinds of new maintenance and working tricks to learn...

what thoughts have you put to shifters?
how many speeds?
I assume a triple up front?
what do you know about gear inches? and what range do you figure you need? As you havent toured before, you will want at least a low of 20 gear inches, and knowing how steep hills can be in the UK, you will never regret having low gears.

the good old shimano 48/36/26 crankset is still a great all around crank, with easy to change 26 ring to smaller BUT, and abig but, is if you go drop bars, you get into the whole road shifters not compatible with shimano dyna sys mtb derailleurs....
I personally wouldnt go road crank route, given that you want to put baggage on the bike.

I hope the bike stores you can get info from have experienced workers, and a place with touring bike experience that will give you reliable touring related experience vis a vis gearing, and not just a "roadie, never have carried heavy panniers before on a trip in hilly Cornwall" take on things---just a heads up, you may very well get an inexperienced or "roadie" view of gearing, but if you arent familiar with this stuff, its hard to judge how much grains of salt to take opinions....

good luck
and especially good luck with the more serious stuff going on presently and the upcoming months.
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Old 03-29-20, 04:46 PM
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Hi Paul

I think it's do-able. Firstly, great choice with the WT, I built one nine years ago and it's still my favourite. It rides beautifully, so comfortable, I also use it for commuting and general leisure riding, not fully loaded touring though without doubt it's capable. Wheels are in my opinion the most important first buy - maybe £300 for some handbuilt wheels. The groupset is more tricky, £300 for a Tiagra groupset, not the prettiest but functionally sound, but this will need some thinking of the type of riding you want to do. On mine I use a Sugino Alpina 48/34 crankset with a 12-30 cassette, but a groupset is an economical start. I love the Nitto Noodle bars, together with a stem and seat post maybe £150. You then have tyres, some small bits and then the build cost. - £1000 should be OK. Brakes are important - without doubt Paul Touring Cantis are my favourite, but at around £100 x 2 they are expensive, the Shimano cantis are the best alternative in my opinion.

Hope this helps - been a while since I've posted here but can't ignore another Bob Jackson fan!
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Old 03-29-20, 05:32 PM
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Having owned both a Trek 520 with Shimano 105 triple (road crankset - 52/42/30) and a Kona Sutra with Shimano Deore triple (MTB crankset - 48/36/26 now customized to 48/36/22), I would go with the MTB crankset. If you go with drop-bar (what I prefer), there are road shifters you can use, just not brifters (or maybe there even are). Bar-end shift levers are what I been using for 20+ years now. They might not win any races but they are perfectly good and reliable.
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Old 03-29-20, 10:58 PM
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I've looked at those frames a lot and have often thought that if I was in the market I'd take them over a Surly or Soma, pricing in compatible and the options are much better.
I'd mine however to use disc brakes as it isn't that big an upcharge.
As someone else mentioned, I'd have no problem running a tiagra groupset and do on my own touring. For a light duty tourer/gravel tour I like having a compact crank with a 48/34 and find it just fine for me. With a loaded tourer I'd go the triple group. Really I like mine, the brifters work beautifully, the crank I have with an 11/36 cassette works well, change the crank to a 30 and you can climb a lot.
Wheels are where I'd lose a bit of money. I put xt hubs, was able to use a 15mm to 12mm axle adapter on mine but I suspect that the new 105thru-axe hubs are probably just as good. I went 32h 3x but loaded I'd probably go 36. I used a 13/g14g singe butted spoke and rim would be something light and sturdy. For my wife I went sun inferno 23 and my bike Velocity Dyad, 23-24m wide rim (outside measurement) rims with a30-32mm time is comfortable enough in my experience.
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Old 03-30-20, 08:13 AM
  #9  
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I am in USA. I know that there are components sold in Europe that are not available in USA and the opposite is also true. So, I won't get into detail.

But I would suggest you avoid thinking of a specific complete groupset. Instead pick what you think you need. For touring, it is common to want a wider range of gearing than is common with a double crank, thus consider a triple crank. And if building new wheels, putting a dynohub on the front is the extra cost of a dynohub minus the cost of the regular hub that you do not buy.

But if for example you wanted to upgrade later and add a dynohub for charging up batteries or for lighting or both, you would then be buying at a minimum the second hub, second set of spokes, possibly a wheel build charge, etc.

My point is you should think about what you want instead of shopping for a specific package of components.
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Old 03-30-20, 08:23 AM
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Very good point Mr tmsn
as for triples, I know we come across as a bunch of old goofs stuck in the past, but triples sure as heck have advantages on a bike that will have 25 or 40lbs of stuff on it in hilly terrain.
the fly in ointment is if you want to use brifters and more than 9 speed, and even then it's sora level, which admittedly is a lot nicer now than old sora.
newer doubles can have a very good spread too, but you really will want to understand your gearing needs to make a good crankset choice

give us your gear inch range thoughts on this?
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Old 03-30-20, 09:56 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Very good point Mr tmsn
...
give us your gear inch range thoughts on this?
I see you posted this five minutes before I listed some gearing data on another thread. But I can list some info here to.

I have three touring bikes, I consider them to be for light, medium and for very heavy duty touring. More weight means need lower gears.

Light weight touring, Lynskey Backroad, 700c tires no wider than 37mm. Derailleur gearing, triple is half step plus granny (46/42/24) and eight speed Sram 11-32 cassette (11/12/14/16/18/21/26/32) I avoid the two most cross chained gears for each chainring, thus only use 18 of the possible 24 gears. Low gear is 20.7 gear inches, high gear is 115.5 gear inches. It is a titanium frame, the manufacturer lists it as no weight limit, but I would not want to load it down too much so it is my light duty touring bike.

Medium weight touring, Thorn Sherpa, 26 inch wheels, I use it with either 40mm or 50mm wide tires depending on situation. Derailleur gearing, the drive train is identical to the Lynskey above, but the wheels are smaller so slightly lower gearing. Low gear is 19.3 gear inches and high of 107.8 gear inches with 50mm tires. Bike is rated for 30 or 35 kg capacity not counting weight of rider.

Heavy weight touring, Thorn Nomad Mk II, 26 inch wheels, usually use 57mm wide tires. Rohloff 14 speed hub with chain drive. When touring I use a 36T chainring and 16T sprocket, that gives a low gear of 16.2 gear inches and a high gear of 85.1 gear inches. As I noted in the other thread, I sized the chainring that I use for touring to give me 3.5 mph at a cadence of 72. I tend to spin out on longer downhills, but I do not want to give up the low gears to obtain higher gearing for touring. But for riding around home, I run a 44T chainring, so the gears are 22.2 percent higher as there I am not pulling heavy loads up steep hills. Bike is rated for 62 kg of weight not counting the weight of the rider, but I never put that much weight on the bike.

On poor quality gravel or pebbles, I have spun out my Rohloff bike on steep uphills, the 16.2 gear inches allows me to put a lot of torque on the rear wheel. And even with two and a half weeks of food and my camping gear on the bike, that was not enough weight on the back wheel to keep the rear tire (57mm wide Marathon Extreme) from spinning out on a steep uphill. But, that is a great first gear for pavement where I have good traction. I have also spun out with an unladen bike with that low gear on poor quality terrain.
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Old 03-30-20, 12:42 PM
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thanks T, I actually wasnt careful enough in my writing, and meant that question for Paul, the fellow asking about this ....but you taking the time to write out your details might be good for him to get an idea of things.

my details Paul, if this can help also
heavy touring bike, 16.7 to 104 g.i on 45/50mm tires
light touring bike, 21-112 with a 32t cassette, but ride this bike a lot with a 12-27 so its about 25 g.i which I find too low for most pannier touring unless really light and not terrible hills (and have found 25g.i. too low since 1991, so its not just Im an old geezer)
mtb commuter that I have toured on, 19-maybe 100
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Old 04-06-20, 06:38 PM
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I have owned three touring bikes includina a Bob Jackson. I LOVE my Bob Jackson by far most of all and it is a great choice. For groulp, I'd go 9 Speed Sora. In 9-speed groug you can intermix shimano road and MTB o can go long cage derailleur and 36 tooth cassette in the rear.B. Also you have fairly tight gear spacing but niot the finickiness if the tight tollerances of 10 & 11 speed. The wider chain is also a bit stronger. Many trans-am riders have crossed the entire US on 9 speed groups witout needing a single gear adjustment. As further testament note how many 9-speed stock touring bikes you will see. Best for durability and functionality. Not best for bling however?
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Old 04-13-20, 08:36 PM
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Fenders and 35s
bought the frameset 3 years ago and had it mailed from leeds to peoria illinois. Couldnt be happier. My drive train is an old 94,58 crankset with a 40 and 20 tooth chainrings. I have an 8 speed 12 to 34 cassette with friction barends and and xtr rear derailleur and rsx front derailleur. V.o. fenders and a c19 saddle. The bars are 23.8mm porteur bars and i also have a tubus tara and tubus fly racks. I will never give up the bob!
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Old 04-13-20, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
Fenders and 35s
bought the frameset 3 years ago and had it mailed from leeds to peoria illinois. Couldnt be happier. My drive train is an old 94,58 crankset with a 40 and 20 tooth chainrings. I have an 8 speed 12 to 34 cassette with friction barends and and xtr rear derailleur and rsx front derailleur. V.o. fenders and a c19 saddle. The bars are 23.8mm porteur bars and i also have a tubus tara and tubus fly racks. I will never give up the bob!
Hi, how did you attach the light to the Tara rack?
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Old 04-13-20, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DropBarFan View Post
Hi, how did you attach the light to the Tara rack?
first i tried a p clamp but in the end i just drilled a hole.
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Old 04-14-20, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
first i tried a p clamp but in the end i just drilled a hole.
not something I'd do to mine, but perhaps consider putting some caulking or something that would be effective at really stopping water getting in. From my experience with winter riding and general long term "in place" stuff, some heavy grease on the threads etc would be good long term.
You maybe already thought of this stuff, was just my first reaction.
cheers
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Old 04-14-20, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
not something I'd do to mine, but perhaps consider putting some caulking or something that would be effective at really stopping water getting in. From my experience with winter riding and general long term "in place" stuff, some heavy grease on the threads etc would be good long term.
You maybe already thought of this stuff, was just my first reaction.
cheers
you're talking my language. It was my daily commuter the first year and saw lots of weather. Of course touring it does as well. I didnt use caulk but i did use anti rust spray. Frankly not much gets in there and its been real solid for the first 3 years.
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Old 04-14-20, 09:27 AM
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for these sort of applications, ie stuff that gets screwed in and left for a long time, anti-seize paste sold for automotive use, is really thick pastey stuff, and very long lasting. Comes in jars usually with a built in brush attached vertically down from the lid, and one jar will last ages and ages as we use just a little of it. I guess any thick grease will work, this stuff usually has added copper and stuff in it, I bought some decades ago when I did some car brake work and it is recommended for high temp uses, and then had it around for whenever it was handy for keeping bike parts from getting rusty.
It is however kinda messy, only need a bit and its hard to get off your fingers, but hey, Ive got the stuff so I use it.

if you didnt put any sort of grease on the threads of your three year old job, worth unscrewing it and putting some on, no matter the grease used.
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Old 04-15-20, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
first i tried a p clamp but in the end i just drilled a hole.
Interesting. At first I wondered about the lack of being able to reach forward & tilt the light down to prevent 'blinding' folks on the MUP but from what I read, the good dyno lights are designed not to throw light too high up so I guess tilting wouldn't be necessary.
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Old 04-17-20, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DropBarFan View Post
Interesting. At first I wondered about the lack of being able to reach forward & tilt the light down to prevent 'blinding' folks on the MUP but from what I read, the good dyno lights are designed not to throw light too high up so I guess tilting wouldn't be necessary.
mine is only 40 lux anyway. Which works for me. It also charges a battery when i turn it off. Pretty handy.
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Old 05-12-20, 10:56 AM
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Apologies from this busy healthcare worker for taking an age to get back. Thanks for all the the replies which have made me realise how much I have to learn, but we all start somewhere I guess. I can't get back to everyone individually but here is where I stand at the moment:

I think 32mm tyres will do just fine for commuting and light touring around Ireland.

I've decided on Nitto albatross handlebars, love the look of these and more upright riding position. Personally I have no love for drop bars as I don't use the drops and like to be able to see the road ahead of me.

Disc brakes definitely appeal but with a tight budget they are not an option so cantis it is.

I am going to get the wheels built and if budget allows get a dyno hub. I feel like dyno lights will be a benefit, especially in Irish winters where I'll need lights twice a day while commuting.

I need to read up on gearing but from what I gather the Sugino Alina 2 triple 46-36-26 will work well. I can buy one of these for 70 euro, should I jump on that? Or am I better off getting the Sugino double like suggested above? I know the Shimano Tiagra groupset has been suggested but I would like the components to fit into the aesthetic I want for the bike if possible.

I think i will go with bar end shifters for their simplicity and reliability.

The rest I am hoping my LBS can advise me on.

I will see where I am budget wise for racks, bags etc but my fear is there won't be much left.

Unfortunately Bob Jackson and my LBS are closed at the moment so I will have to wait until things to get back to normal.
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Old 05-12-20, 11:22 AM
  #23  
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very quickly, 46/36/26 is a wonderful option as it gives you all kinds of gear range, and if in the future you do some loaded touring, you always have the possibility of changing the small ring 26 to a smaller one (double check the bcd to make sure) and in any case, with a 32 or 34t cassette you will have pretty good gearing as is.

safe working
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Old 05-12-20, 01:12 PM
  #24  
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I did a google search for bob jackson world tour images and got lots of photos. Vast majority of bikes had drop bars.

Usually a bike with flat bars will be designed with a longer top tube than a bike frame for drop bars. If you are planning flat bars, you should have a conversation with someone at Bob Jackson and/or the bike shop that would build it up about sizing to make sure that the size you order is right for your desired setup.

Better yet, if you have a bike or access to a bike with upright bars that fits you really well, then you can take measurements off of that bike.

Post 14 above has a photo of a Bob Jackson with flat bars, but it is not clear to me if that is the same model or not.
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Old 05-12-20, 04:55 PM
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I'm glad I clicked on this thread as I'm just starting out looking for a touring bike and their workshop is literally 5 minutes walk from my house. Who'd have known?!
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