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Bigger tires are sooo much more comfortable

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Bigger tires are sooo much more comfortable

Old 07-16-14, 11:34 AM
  #26  
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The epitome of big-tire comfort:

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Old 07-16-14, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
Perfect on those oh so buttery smooth freshly paved roads in Northern Michigan, maybe.... Around here, they fix a few million potholes every year, and what isn't potholes is often cracked, plus there are utility cuts that were improperly repaired, dirt, gravel, sticks, and all kinds of other nonsense, mean that a 23mm tire at high PSI will shake your teeth out.
Our roads may not be as bad as yours but if you know anything about our state's rep for bad roads you wouldnt necessarily describe them as buttery smooth. We have patches on patches and freeze cracks on most roads.
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Old 07-16-14, 11:45 AM
  #28  
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I refuse to get into the debate about tire width/speed issues that wake up the engineers and rocket scientists here. I built a racing bike to go fast and I train for it. I dont ride the randies and fondue's.....I want and need the lightest rolling weight possible in wheels, tubes and tires. That's all.

When my hurrah with going fast is over then I'll get a tall headtubed upright comfort bike and rock the 35mm tires. And yes, they will feel much smoother.
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Old 07-16-14, 11:49 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
Wider is not better for me. I've tried wider and heavier with the nod going to skinnier, high psi, folding bead, lighter racing style of tire. Yes, when I went in that directions I could feel the difference in a positive (for me) way in terms of quicker acceleration and speed. It's all subjective until you add that half pound per tire and tube combo.
On my trek 5900 superlight I replaced the original bontrager (race x lite) wheelset and gatorskin 23's with 650B velocity rims/ chris king hubs / grand bois 32's --and the resulting wheels were a few grams LIGHTER than the originals.

Original: http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...5900superlight

Last edited by dbg; 07-16-14 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 07-16-14, 01:00 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by dbg View Post
On my trek 5900 superlight I replaced the original bontrager (race x lite) wheelset and gatorskin 23's with 650B velocity rims/ chris king hubs / grand bois 32's --and the resulting wheels were a few grams LIGHTER than the originals.

Original: 2004 5900 Superlight - Bike Archive - Trek Bicycle
How heavy are those tires? Did you offset that with the lighter wheels?
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Old 07-16-14, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by donheff View Post
I have read lots of test results arguing that wider tires do as well on rolling resistance. Here Bike radar says wider is lower.
The article referenced was measuring 23s vs 25s, unless I missed the paragraph you intended. This discussion was started as 38mm tires on a Lemond Buenos Aires that underwent a conversion to 650b to fit fat tires. Mtb tires and city bike tires have more rolling resistance than road bike tires. Unless I am uninformed (not the first time).
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Old 07-16-14, 01:17 PM
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The GB 32 tires are lighter than gatorskin 23's (Compass Bicycles: 650B Tires)

Chris King hubs are also quite light.

And this model bike (which I received as a hand-me-down) has a bit of a famous history with Lance Armstrong preferring it over the new Madone on his climbs in the 03 TDF (Lance's New Bike, How light can a bike be in the TDF: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums)

I have since replaced the DA shifters with new Ultegra and the DA crank with new Ultegra compact ( I can't afford DA). Pretty sure it's still in the 17-18lb range as is.

Last edited by dbg; 07-16-14 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 07-16-14, 01:26 PM
  #33  
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I have a 25 year old Raleigh road bike that works like a charm but needs new tires. The ones on it are 27 x 1.25 .... how wide a tire can i likely go with and it still fit those rims, without new rims?

I wouldn't do it myself, so no danger in me buying something that won't fit. I ride rough places now and want the most cushion i can get
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Old 07-16-14, 01:30 PM
  #34  
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I would also recount an observation from riding in pace lines where we crossed a county boundary (presumably) and went from rough and jittery surface to fresh and smooth --and noticed an immediate speed increase of the whole pace line of 2 to 3 mph.

I had often wondered if softer tires could have given us the same speed increase over the rough surfaces.
THAT (and those damned expansion joints) was when I started looking into softer tires.

(I also don't race)

Last edited by dbg; 07-16-14 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 07-16-14, 02:04 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
The article referenced was measuring 23s vs 25s, unless I missed the paragraph you intended. This discussion was started as 38mm tires on a Lemond Buenos Aires that underwent a conversion to 650b to fit fat tires. Mtb tires and city bike tires have more rolling resistance than road bike tires. Unless I am uninformed (not the first time).
the article and many others like it talk about the principle - it isn't the width of the tire that determines rolling resistance, thus other things being equal a wide tire doesn't offer more resistance than a similar narrow tire. They deform differently but end up with similar total area of footprint. Other things tend not to be equal, tires and wheels weight more, fat tires are often knobby, etc.,
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Old 07-16-14, 04:36 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by burris View Post
I have a 25 year old Raleigh road bike that works like a charm but needs new tires. The ones on it are 27 x 1.25 .... how wide a tire can i likely go with and it still fit those rims, without new rims?

I wouldn't do it myself, so no danger in me buying something that won't fit. I ride rough places now and want the most cushion i can get
27 x 1 1/4" is far and away the most commonly available size. Far as I know 27 x 1 3/8 is only larger size but not sure if a wider rim would be needed - I would imagine not. May not be easy to find that size.
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Old 07-16-14, 04:42 PM
  #37  
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At age 71 I had to go from 700x23 GP4000s at 120psi rear and 110 psi front to 700x25 GP4000s at 105 psi and 95 psi which helped a lot with ride with little speed sacrifice (still top of Strava leaderboard for 65+ for a few segments). I did eventually have to surrender my S-works Tarmac to my son and now ride a Trek Domane with its longer head tube for neck comfort.
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Old 07-16-14, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by fastcarbon View Post
At age 71 I had to go from 700x23 GP4000s at 120psi rear and 110 psi front to 700x25 GP4000s at 105 psi and 95 psi which helped a lot with ride with little speed sacrifice (still top of Strava leaderboard for 65+ for a few segments.
.

I agree totally. Going to 25mms or 28mm makes perfect sense on a road bike.
For gravel/dirt surfaces wider tires or small knobbies are a good match.
At 6'1", 650b doesn't appeal to me, but I'm mostly a roadie.
For a rocky forest service type road, give me front suspension.
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Old 07-16-14, 05:28 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
I refuse to get into the debate about tire width/speed issues that wake up the engineers and rocket scientists here. I built a racing bike to go fast and I train for it. I dont ride the randies and fondue's.....I want and need the lightest rolling weight possible in wheels, tubes and tires. That's all.

When my hurrah with going fast is over then I'll get a tall headtubed upright comfort bike and rock the 35mm tires. And yes, they will feel much smoother.
Good plan. You might consider 47mm wide for Real Deal™ comfort.

Me? I prefer comfort over speed, and have enjoyed a comfortable ride on every ride for the past 17 years on Marathon 47 x 622 mm tires in combination with an appropriate saddle. If speed were an important consideration, I'd ride a motorcycle. If "efficiency" was the goal I'd search the Internet to find the expert who will provide the answer that meets my desire.

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 07-16-14 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 07-16-14, 08:38 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
Our roads may not be as bad as yours but if you know anything about our state's rep for bad roads you wouldnt necessarily describe them as buttery smooth. We have patches on patches and freeze cracks on most roads.
Yeah, I've heard about Michigan roads, pretty much every state North of Virginia has that problem. I also don't think that between 23mm and 28mm there is a huge difference in weight, if you run a tire of similar construction. For example a 28mm tire is 18% larger then a 23mm tire, a good portion of the weight is the bead, which is the same no matter which tire size you use, so the weight difference is likely closer to 10% so if your 23mm tire is 215g then your 28mm tire should be around 21.5g heavier, and your likely using the same tube, I know the tubes I use are 23-28mm. 21g is far short of the ~226g in a half pound.... Really to me even a half pound makes no difference, the engine is a good 45lbs heavier then it should be, and I would rather take a few pounds off that, then skimping out on uncomfortable tires.
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Old 07-16-14, 09:00 PM
  #41  
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I am debating on getting either Giant Sedona DX with 26 X 1.95 tires or a Giant Cypress with 700 x 38 tires. Or maybe the comparable Trek bike. Are the 38 mm tires are 1.5 inches wide? What I am trying to figure out is the 1.95" on the 26" tire the same 1.5" inch measurement as on the 700 x 38 tire? I normally ride for about 25-30 miles in 3 hrs. on my Diamondback Classic with 26 x 1.95 tires and the sidewalks/bikepaths I ride on are not the smoothest. Also I live only 6 miles from the ocean and ride on the beach sometimes when the tide is low. Also I figure if I can 3 hrs. on my present bike I don't really need a bike that is easier to ride - i.e. 700 x 38 type bike. Thoughts?
thanks
Em
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Old 07-16-14, 09:03 PM
  #42  
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I've been through most of the lighter, wider 700 tires. The Vittoria Voyager Hyper are my favorites, a good value. I have them in 32 & 38's. They measure larger.
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Old 07-16-14, 10:35 PM
  #43  
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I run 23c on my commuter and they are ok for the smooth roads I travel on. nasty to get off if I need to change a flat though. 32c on my Soma Double cross and they are very nice. Potholes don't bother them all that much. I run 1.5 continental comfort contacts on my mtb in touring mode and they laugh at just about anything under a fire road. Speeds don't differ all that much. The commuter is faster but not by enough to justify the harshness of the tires.
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Old 07-17-14, 03:44 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
Yeah, I've heard about Michigan roads, pretty much every state North of Virginia has that problem. I also don't think that between 23mm and 28mm there is a huge difference in weight, if you run a tire of similar construction. For example a 28mm tire is 18% larger then a 23mm tire, a good portion of the weight is the bead, which is the same no matter which tire size you use, so the weight difference is likely closer to 10% so if your 23mm tire is 215g then your 28mm tire should be around 21.5g heavier, and your likely using the same tube, I know the tubes I use are 23-28mm. 21g is far short of the ~226g in a half pound.... Really to me even a half pound makes no difference, the engine is a good 45lbs heavier then it should be, and I would rather take a few pounds off that, then skimping out on uncomfortable tires.
On paper all looks good for your side of things. Yet, I can feel and see results on my personal TT courses in every little bit 5Lbs and up. It all adds up when you are doing intervals and steep hills where every fraction of mph counts. With wider tires you have to factor in a run-of-the-mill bigger, heavier tube. But then, I am one of those that figures for every 3 or 4 100gr reductions I have lost a pound on the bike (and the engine is trimmed, no obesity).
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Old 07-17-14, 03:48 AM
  #45  
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Have a modern steel road bike, spec 23 mm Conti GP 4 seasons. Got a couple thousand km on them and ruined one. Replaced the set with 25 mm, as the shop didn't have 23 mm in stock. For my riding, don't notice the 25s are any slower, they feel more secure on crappy roads, have worn better than the 23s, are more comfortable. I do ride 25s at a slightly lower pressure.
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Old 07-17-14, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
On paper all looks good for your side of things. Yet, I can feel and see results on my personal TT courses in every little bit 5Lbs and up. It all adds up when you are doing intervals and steep hills where every fraction of mph counts. With wider tires you have to factor in a run-of-the-mill bigger, heavier tube. But then, I am one of those that figures for every 3 or 4 100gr reductions I have lost a pound on the bike (and the engine is trimmed, no obesity).
It all comes down to cost, 23mm tires are higher performance, how much higher is debatable. The cost of that higher performance is that they don't ride as comfortably or as smoothly, as wider tires. So it really is up to the individual rider, which they prefer. If I could fit 38's on the Raleigh, I would probably run those, as is, a 28 is about as wide as the rear will go, so I need to stick to those. Funny because the tires on it, with the old 27" wheels were 32mm, and the rim is actually smaller, so I need to figure out why that is, because I would prefer running 32mm tires on it. It's one of the things with the modern frames, they can be built to accommodate a wide tire, without a huge weight gain by the frame.
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Old 07-17-14, 07:25 AM
  #47  
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I'm not a weight weenie but I would again point out that both of my conversions resulted in equal or lower overall weight in the wheelset for a softer, wider tire. You could certainly choose heavy and fat tires and declare the result to be bad --but that doesn't prove anything.

I have not noticed any loss in speed or times on my rides.

I have noticed a definite increase in comfort.

I'm thinking I am spinning on through rough areas where I formerly cringed or braced for shock.
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Old 07-17-14, 07:31 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
It all comes down to cost, 23mm tires are higher performance, how much higher is debatable. The cost of that higher performance is that they don't ride as comfortably or as smoothly, as wider tires. So it really is up to the individual rider, which they prefer. If I could fit 38's on the Raleigh, I would probably run those, as is, a 28 is about as wide as the rear will go, so I need to stick to those. Funny because the tires on it, with the old 27" wheels were 32mm, and the rim is actually smaller, so I need to figure out why that is, because I would prefer running 32mm tires on it. It's one of the things with the modern frames, they can be built to accommodate a wide tire, without a huge weight gain by the frame.
That narrower 27", sounds like the more hard to find Weinmanns that back in the day took the 1" tire.
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Old 07-17-14, 08:25 AM
  #49  
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Why try to use one tire size, when N+1 is the solution?

700x23 Vittorio Rubino;



Now wearing 700x25 Vittorio Corsa CX;



700x27 Challenge Parigi-Roubaix



700x32 Vittoria Voyager Hyper or Kendra Happy Medium;



700x38 Bontanger



Sometimes wearing a 700x50 Schwalbe Marathon Supreme

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Old 07-17-14, 11:34 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
Why try to use one tire size, when N+1 is the solution?

700x23 Vittorio Rubino;



Now wearing 700x25 Vittorio Corsa CX;



700x27 Challenge Parigi-Roubaix



700x32 Vittoria Voyager Hyper or Kendra Happy Medium;



700x38 Bontanger



Sometimes wearing a 700x50 Schwalbe Marathon Supreme

Finally, someone is making sense.
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