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Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Gps units

Old 03-16-19, 02:47 PM
  #26  
Steve B.
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Originally Posted by bonsai171 View Post
I was using strava and had the WiFi on inside. Will try it outside later.

Dave
Some things to know about GPS and this applies to cell phones as well as any dedicated GPS unit. It's a very weak signal from the get-go, thus signal reception depends on being as out in the open as you can get, thus no reception indoors usually. Accuracy of the GPS also depends on how many GPS satellites the device can see in the sky, with 4 typically the minimum number for location accuracy. If you are riding the canyons of Utah or Manhattan, the reception gets spotty, thus folks tracking a ride sometimes use a speed sensor. That counts wheel revolutions (sense the earths magnetic field) with improved accuracy as to distance as well as the current speed. Mt. bikers and gravel grinders who ride in wooded area's with dense foliage also benefit from a speed sensor.

Note as well and as indicated in earlier posts, using a smartphone with it's built in GPS will want to display that location on a map. Many use Google, but be aware that typically you need to have cell service in order for Google to be downloading and displaying the maps with your location. Or you can cache as a download, a subset of Google maps, or others from a 3rd party tracking app that will keep maps resident on the device. Pretty much all dedicated GPS cycling devices have maps of some form residing on the device thus don't need cell or WiFi service and don't need to connect to a phone to display position.
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Old 03-16-19, 05:15 PM
  #27  
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Google maps allows one to download maps of a selected area. There are other apps which will do the same. Iíve done this on my iPhone while overseas. They are routable and some have points of interest.

That said Iíve used Garmin GPSs for years. Have a Montana 610 Iíve been using for mapping. It also goes in the car and motorcyle. But itís big and the speed and cadence sensor is expensive and hard to get. I considered the Wahoo Elemnt. But wanted to be able to connect with BaseCamp. Got a Edge 1030. So far the routing is good. Configuring took a little work. I took my old routes from BaseCamp and Strava and transfered them over so I can use them for workouts. Only tried one today and pleased. High dollar but works for me. Oh I have the Wahoo wheel and Cadence sensors.
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Old 03-16-19, 06:13 PM
  #28  
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Phone for Bike Computer

Ive been using my phone for a bike computer for about 6 months now with excellent results.

I went through a bunch of apps and settled on Urban Biker which has a plethora of features and functionality thats just heads above any bike computer or any other app I have tried. Especially for the cost (5$ I donated because it was so awesome) Check it here - Urban Biker

Im using a rockform pro bike mount. Super lightweight and simple to install. I use my phone in landscape mode. While having the phone in landscape mode doesnt make use of rockforms magnet (adds addl secure grip) I have never had an issue with the phone coming loose. Nice Aluminum phone mount. No cheap plastic parts or pieces.

The phone I use is completely waterproof. No issues in rain. Touchscreen works great in the rain as well. Its nice to be able to see your texts and emails and phonecalls while riding especially when its during work hours/lunch.

Urban Biker allows you to setup different profiles for different bikes so you can associate wheel sizes, cadence/speed/power meters, bike weight, wheel weights, saddle bag weights all to one profile. If you ride a different bike (I switch between a road bike and gravel bike frequently) you just long press the little square and choose the bike you are riding. Everything else automatically adjusts to that profile. So you can track seperate data for each bike. It also calculates calories and power output based on overall rider/bike weight. Nice feature as my Gravel bike is 5lbs more than my road bike.

Overall cost was the 5$ donation to urban biker, the phone I already had so no addl cost for that. 50$ for each of the speed / cadence sensors for each bike. 40$ for each rockform bike mount. $185.00 total for 2 bikes.

I think the only challenge you might have is battery life. I did a 40 mile ride this am (about 2hr20min) and used about 40% of my phone battery. It lasts much longer if I turn down the screen brightness and turn off the cell radio. On long rides I just pack a small external charger which will charge my phone about 1 and a half times and my phone would last all day (10-12hrs) running both strava and urban biker with all radios on.

-Sean
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Old 03-18-19, 09:14 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by bonsai171 View Post
I have been looking at gps units to get navigation on my bikes, and had a couple questions:
1) will it work with all 3 bikes?
2) can I get mileage totals (yearly data) for all 3 bikes?
3) Is there a less expensive way to get navigation? Looks like around $250 for a computer, and another $210 for 3 sets of speed and cadence sensors, plus mounts.

Dave
Bro, I had been looking at the same thing just a couple of weeks ago. I was looking at the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt and Garmin Edge 520. Needed to buy speed sensors, etc. etc. would have been like $300.

I was amazed at how stupid the navigation seems to be on these units (only predetermined routes, or need to whip out the smartphone anyway on the Wahoo). I was amazed how expensive these units are for what you get! It is 2019 people, why do these units have terrible maps, terribly slow interfaces, etc. etc.??

You know what I decided:
- I Got a used Iphone SE used on Ebay for $80 (the only good small smartphone out there, my main phone is just too big on the handlebars, at 5.5 inches), and
- bought a battery case for it on Amazon for $17. Sleek and works well https://www.amazon.com/FNSON-Portabl...gateway&sr=8-4
- Got a good Topeak Ridecase Omni Handlebar mount for about $30, and voila. https://www.topeak.com/global/en/pro...-omni-ridecase

For under $130 this does everything a Wahoo or Garmin does, and Better! Plus it makes phonecalls, photos, you name it. Iphone SE battery lasts about 6 hours doing GPS navigation without battery pack. The battery pack is able to charge the phone fully 2.5 times, so that is 21 hr total runtime!

Really happy with my decision so far. I use RidewithGPS app to use it as a headunit. Has fully customizable ridescreen (can customize which metrics it shows speed, avg speed, HR, power, cadence, etc. etc.), can pair with any bluetooth HR sensor, cadence sensor, certain power meters, etc. as long as they are bluetooth. It gives good audio cues and spoken turn by turn navigation, although you need to sign up for premium account for this ($50 a year or so).


The only thing the Wahoo or Garmin do better is probably that they're lighter than iPhone SE + battery pack (by quite a bit, iphone+battery case is 250g, Wahoo and Garmin are under 100g). And they probably are more compatible with more power meters. Also the screen on the Wahoo seems easier to read in sunlight than the reflective screen of the Garmin or Smartphone.

But if you are just looking for navigation, a phone still blows all these things out of the water.

Last edited by maartendc; 03-18-19 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 03-18-19, 09:25 AM
  #30  
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My old Garmin 705 works great with a loaded .tcx route file. It's terrible at recalculating a route if I get off course, but that's never been a feature I needed. I can pick my own roads off the displayed map to get back to the purple route line. I have the setting at "never recalculate a route". It just notifies me if I'm off course -- usually from missing a turn when I wasn't paying attention.

I also have osmand+ app on my android phone. It's a free Open Street Map app. I download local area maps that are stored in the phone. So it works anywhere there's a view of the sky. It only takes a few seconds to launch, so I can see my location on the map quickly, and there's lots of detail as I zoom in.

Bike computers vs phone holders
Bike GPS are waterproof. Bike GPS work better than phones in sunlight. They are designed with a different type of display that works with sunlight instead of getting washed out like phones. And their battery life is good for long rides.

Last edited by rm -rf; 03-18-19 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 03-18-19, 08:48 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post
My old Garmin 705 works great with a loaded .tcx route file. It's terrible at recalculating a route if I get off course, but that's never been a feature I needed. I can pick my own roads off the displayed map to get back to the purple route line. I have the setting at "never recalculate a route". It just notifies me if I'm off course -- usually from missing a turn when I wasn't paying attention.

I also have osmand+ app on my android phone. It's a free Open Street Map app. I download local area maps that are stored in the phone. So it works anywhere there's a view of the sky. It only takes a few seconds to launch, so I can see my location on the map quickly, and there's lots of detail as I zoom in.

Bike computers vs phone holders
Bike GPS are waterproof. Bike GPS work better than phones in sunlight. They are designed with a different type of display that works with sunlight instead of getting washed out like phones. And their battery life is good for long rides.
I will probably go with a bike gps, basically just need one to follow a saved route in strava, not find me a burger and fries Got a REI dividend in the mail too, should take a good chunk out of the cost of the GPS unit. I'm thinking at this point to convert my road bike to a gps unit, and do the fixed gear and gravel bike later.

Dave
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Old 03-18-19, 11:26 PM
  #32  
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If you end up getting a garmin or wahoo head unit, know that you can skip the speed sensor altogether. If you want cadence, get something like the Wahoo RPM that can be attached to your shoe and you won't need to move it from bike to bike at all.

For Garmin, the 520 is a pain in the ass to use for navigation (but it's possible with a bunch of work on your part). The new 520 plus apparently does "real" navigation. I believe the wahoo units also do "real" navigation. All of the Garmin 800 series or 1000 series will also do Nav but they get really pricey fast.
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Old 03-19-19, 12:00 AM
  #33  
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I use a Garmin watch. Fenix 5X. Love it.
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Old 03-19-19, 07:51 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
If you end up getting a garmin or wahoo head unit, know that you can skip the speed sensor altogether. If you want cadence, get something like the Wahoo RPM that can be attached to your shoe and you won't need to move it from bike to bike at all.

For Garmin, the 520 is a pain in the ass to use for navigation (but it's possible with a bunch of work on your part). The new 520 plus apparently does "real" navigation. I believe the wahoo units also do "real" navigation. All of the Garmin 800 series or 1000 series will also do Nav but they get really pricey fast.
I think it is good to point out that the navigation on both the Garmin 520 and Wahoo Elemnt are atrocious. This is what turned me off of these units completely. If it is that much worse than phone navigation, why even bother? (see video below) They don't even seem to be good at routing you along safe bicycling routes, as evidenced by the video below: the Garmin 520 tries to send the rider "back home" over what is clearly an interstate. Until Wahoo and Garmin get their act together regarding good bike friendly routes (which should be the whole point of these "navigation" enabled units), no thanks. I will not be spending $250+ on one of these.

If I have to plan every route in advance, and it freaks out when I go off route, that is not very useful to me personally. I might as well print a cue sheet onto my top tube at that point if that much work is involved. Google maps actually does a better job of routing people along safe bike routes than ANY of these units.

In any case, if you get one of these, stay away from the Garmin 520, as the touchscreen, menus and interface are horribly buggy and slow from what I have researched. It was apparently a way worse unit than even its predecessors. Get the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt if you get one of these $250 units.

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Old 03-19-19, 10:50 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by maartendc View Post
I think it is good to point out that the navigation on both the Garmin 520 and Wahoo Elemnt are atrocious. This is what turned me off of these units completely. If it is that much worse than phone navigation, why even bother? (see video below) They don't even seem to be good at routing you along safe bicycling routes, as evidenced by the video below: the Garmin 520 tries to send the rider "back home" over what is clearly an interstate. Until Wahoo and Garmin get their act together regarding good bike friendly routes (which should be the whole point of these "navigation" enabled units), no thanks. I will not be spending $250+ on one of these.

If I have to plan every route in advance, and it freaks out when I go off route, that is not very useful to me personally. I might as well print a cue sheet onto my top tube at that point if that much work is involved. Google maps actually does a better job of routing people along safe bike routes than ANY of these units.

In any case, if you get one of these, stay away from the Garmin 520, as the touchscreen, menus and interface are horribly buggy and slow from what I have researched. It was apparently a way worse unit than even its predecessors. Get the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt if you get one of these $250 units.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATS7nb4Xyv8
I assume that's a typo - the 520 doesn't have a touch screen.

Anyway yes, the 520 requires pre-planning (and you have to track down maps) and I assume the wahoo is slightly better. Even the 520 plus requires preplanning, so if you really want something that will allow you to do real navigation if you're plopped in the middle of the country and have no computer, you'll need something like the 1030 explore. But you'll pay for it, so it really matters what's important to the OP.
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Old 03-20-19, 12:59 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by bonsai171 View Post
I have been looking at gps units to get navigation on my bikes, and had a couple questions:
1) will it work with all 3 bikes?
2) can I get mileage totals (yearly data) for all 3 bikes?
3) Is there a less expensive way to get navigation? Looks like around $250 for a computer, and another $210 for 3 sets of speed and cadence sensors, plus mounts.

Dave
3/ Yes, phone on handle bar and free app.
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Old 03-20-19, 06:57 AM
  #37  
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Another option like folks have said is to just use your phone with Strava.
I have a mount like this and it's awesome Quad Lock

I had a HORRIBLE crash last June with my phone mounted on one of these. Bike, destroyed. but the phone, mount. Unphased! I don't have an iphone or galaxy. I have a Pixel. So, I had to buy a case off Amazon and then stick the Little quad lock adapter to the back.I thought for sure that the phone would at least have had damage from the crash, but it stayed locked to the mount the whole time.
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Old 03-22-19, 07:57 PM
  #38  
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Welp, my 520 just bit the dust out of the blue. I am looking at going to the Wahoo Bolt but the new Pioneer CA 600 also looks like an attractive option and can be found for about the same price. Anyone have any experience on the Pioneer? It's so new that I can't find much about it.
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Old 03-23-19, 04:26 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by BluFalconActual View Post
Welp, my 520 just bit the dust out of the blue. I am looking at going to the Wahoo Bolt but the new Pioneer CA 600 also looks like an attractive option and can be found for about the same price. Anyone have any experience on the Pioneer? It's so new that I can't find much about it.
I have the Pioneer SGX-CA500 and I love it.. I replaced it with the Karoo though, so it's just kinda collecting dust ATM. But it's a great little unit.
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Old 03-23-19, 07:00 AM
  #40  
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If you go the phone route, I suggest a dedicated phone exclusively for the bike and if you need data, pop in your sim card form your "real" phone for each ride if you need data. Forget using a big ugly case mount as you can just glue a garmin compatible mount on the back of the phone (and sand the phone first so it gets a good grip). These are under $10 on ebay and a bar mount another $5-$10. Best phone as a bike computer is Sony Xperia compact (z3, z5). Small, waterproof, good battery and even takes great photos. Next on list would be Motorola Moto E 2015. Small, very cheap, water resistant and good battery. Old iPhones are also OK but not as cheap and lack water proof. My Moto E setup cost around $50 all up and does everything the top garmins do and much more.
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Old 03-26-19, 07:28 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by bluehills3149 View Post
If you go the phone route, I suggest a dedicated phone exclusively for the bike and if you need data, pop in your sim card form your "real" phone for each ride if you need data. Forget using a big ugly case mount as you can just glue a garmin compatible mount on the back of the phone (and sand the phone first so it gets a good grip). These are under $10 on ebay and a bar mount another $5-$10. Best phone as a bike computer is Sony Xperia compact (z3, z5). Small, waterproof, good battery and even takes great photos. Next on list would be Motorola Moto E 2015. Small, very cheap, water resistant and good battery. Old iPhones are also OK but not as cheap and lack water proof. My Moto E setup cost around $50 all up and does everything the top garmins do and much more.
I second this opinion.

Could you point me to the garmin mount you are talking about? I know the "out front" garmin mounts, but I imagine you would have to glue the compatible piece to the back of the phone / case to make it fit inside of the mount? Where do you find said piece?

Thanks!
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Old 03-26-19, 08:47 AM
  #42  
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I'm using a magellan cyclo 315 that is widely panned as crap but I haven't really had any issue with it. I bought it because they were being dumped on ebay for $60 and I needed to replace my beat to death garmin 705. Navigation on it isn't the best but then neither was the 705 or any other gps unit I've looked at. If I were buying something now I'd probably go with a Lezyne of some kind for around $130. It would do everything I want including navigation, just won't be fancy.
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Old 03-26-19, 08:52 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by maartendc View Post
I second this opinion.

Could you point me to the garmin mount you are talking about? I know the "out front" garmin mounts, but I imagine you would have to glue the compatible piece to the back of the phone / case to make it fit inside of the mount? Where do you find said piece?

Thanks!
I mentioned this earlier, just get something like this Quad Lock
You can get an out front mount or one that'll attach to your stem or handlebars. As long as the piece is secured to your phone or phone case, believe me, it;s not going anywhere. The "Universal Fit bike kit" is what I'd recommend.
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Old 03-26-19, 09:32 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by BluFalconActual View Post
Welp, my 520 just bit the dust out of the blue. I am looking at going to the Wahoo Bolt but the new Pioneer CA 600 also looks like an attractive option and can be found for about the same price. Anyone have any experience on the Pioneer? It's so new that I can't find much about it.
​​​​​​If you want to hold on to your $$, Garmin will repair or replace your 520 for $99.

https://www8.garmin.com/support/outofwarranty.html
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Old 03-26-19, 10:06 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​If you want to hold on to your $$, Garmin will repair or replace your 520 for $99.

https://www8.garmin.com/support/outofwarranty.html
Awesome. Thanks!
Unfortunately I just bought an elemnt bolt but Iíll still get the 520 fixed and give it to my brother.
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Old 03-27-19, 08:15 AM
  #46  
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Using Garmin Connect ap, under "gear", you can assisgn a ride mileage to a specific bike, also see annual mileage for yourself. Free ap with Garmin devices.KB
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