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NBD 2018 Cervélo S3 disc SRAM eTap (AKA I have a sickness)

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NBD 2018 Cervélo S3 disc SRAM eTap (AKA I have a sickness)

Old 09-12-19, 06:50 AM
  #26  
eduskator
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Originally Posted by CarloM View Post
Oh one more thing I can add about the older model eTap, which is likely addressed in the AXS version: it doesn't prevent cross-chaining on the small front chainring. Whereas the Di2 won't let you use the two smallest cogs in the rear when you're in the small ring up front, the Red eTap will...which, when you uses the smallest cog on mine makes an annoying noise.

Not that I want to use it, it's just that sometimes I forget what gear I'm on and inadvertently switch to it.

What's ironic is that when I first learned my Di2 prevented the use of those gears I was like "who does Shimano think they are, telling me what gears I can't use?!?!" and now I realize it's actually a good feature.
Ha Ha! Yes, I do like the fact that the front derailleur automatically adjusts to avoid cross chaining & the chain rubbing on the derailleur when shifting through the rear gears. It's so useful & effortless. I don't regret paying the extra $ to go with the R8070 instead of the mechanical R8000.

Last edited by eduskator; 09-12-19 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 09-12-19, 09:12 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You know those wheels cost $3k, right? Without rotors or tires. I can't believe what a good deal you got. And in a Cervelo no less!
That's what drove me to endure LA traffic to get there. I don't recall why I was on Incycle's website originally, but I clicked on Clearance and saw the deep discount bikes, which usually are in sizes way to small (47) or, more often, large (58, 61) for me. To my surprise, when I clicked on 51, that S3 remained after the filter was applied. I looked at the wheels, did research, and yes they're the original SES 5.6 discs with the DT Swiss 240s and not the Chris Kings that come on current models, but even accounting for that, it was too good a deal to pass up at least test-riding. Obviously if I didn't like the ride, it didn't matter the cost. But I ended up loving it (and still do, after putting six hours and maybe 100 miles of riding time on it). I knew I got a deal when I took it to Giant Santa Monica to be appraised, and when I told Elon what I paid, his said "with those wheels?" and I said "yep". He then followed it up with "nice work! You basically paid for the wheels and the SRAM eTap, and got the rest of the bike for free."

Last night I did a combo 20 minute ride on the S3, then 20 on the TCR, again on the S3, then back to the TCR. It's what I hoped: they are complementary bicycles. One does certain things a bit better than the other. Neither makes the other obsolete.

This was unlike when I first bought the TCR, and I came home and rode my SuperSix. I immediately knew then I'd found a replacement in the TCR. It did everything the SuperSix did, but better.

The main downside I have discovered: I can't wait to go tubeless, but unfortunately it looks like I won't be able to use the Conti 5K TLs. The max recommended tire width according to Cervelo is 25mm. The ENVEs are wide rims (19mm internal, 28mm external for front, 29mm in back). So the current stock 23c Conti Grand Sport Race clinchers actually measure 25mm (I eyeballed with a metal ruler, I will bring it in to the shop and have them confirm with calipers). I'm concerned that 25c 5Ks will significantly exceed 25mm on these rims. And Conti doesn't make 23c 5K TLs (just non-TLs). So maybe I'll try a Vittoria Corsa Speed G+ or a Hutchinson Fusion 5 Galactik Tubeless (those are the closest to the 5K in rolling resistance according to the BRR site), both of which come in 700x23
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Old 09-12-19, 09:18 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Ha Ha! Yes, I do like the fact that the front derailleur automatically adjusts to avoid cross chaining & the chain rubbing on the derailleur when shifting through the rear gears. It's so useful & effortless. I don't regret paying the extra $ to go with the R8070 instead of the mechanical R8000.
I'm not going to lie, I very much like the SRAM. I know some people trash on it, especially the older 11 speed model I have, but I think it's feels great and if my choice were any mechanical groupset, or the eTap, it's the eTap every time.

That said, as I was going back and forth last night between the S3 and TCR...I like the brake feel/modulation better on the Di2. That, coupled with the Di2 cross-chain prevention and D-Fly functionality with my Wahoo Roam...I'm tempted to ask my friend's mechanic to put the Di2 on the S3. Now that would add 2 more exposed wires at the bar/headtube area...

I'll keep riding it as is for a month or so, see if it grows on me, or if after some pad wear the modulation improves. But if not, I'll probably make the switch in November.
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Old 09-12-19, 09:30 AM
  #29  
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I have a C3 with SES 4.5 ARs. I've always loved the way Cervelos ride. They handle perfectly, exactly the way I think a bike should. A Cervelo with Enve wheels is as good as it gets in my book.
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Old 09-12-19, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CarloM View Post
I'm not going to lie, I very much like the SRAM. I know some people trash on it, especially the older 11 speed model I have, but I think it's feels great and if my choice were any mechanical groupset, or the eTap, it's the eTap every time.

That said, as I was going back and forth last night between the S3 and TCR...I like the brake feel/modulation better on the Di2. That, coupled with the Di2 cross-chain prevention and D-Fly functionality with my Wahoo Roam...I'm tempted to ask my friend's mechanic to put the Di2 on the S3. Now that would add 2 more exposed wires at the bar/headtube area...

I'll keep riding it as is for a month or so, see if it grows on me, or if after some pad wear the modulation improves. But if not, I'll probably make the switch in November.
Speaking of D-FLY, how do you like the wireless module & its features on your bike's computer / on your smartphone? I'm a little hesitant to buy one with all the mix . I've read that it does not connect properly sometimes (being ''too distant'' from the bike's computer or their cellphones even if it's like 2-3 feet away. One actually installed it close to the battery inside the seat tube and he had issues with the connection). Also, do you have E-TUBE on your smartphone? I've also read threads on forums where owners actually lost their settings when they tried connecting it to install updates / play with the settings. Makes me wonder if it's worth it at all.

I would be ok plugging it in my laptop from time to time, but Shimano does not offer a Mac version of E-TUBE (wtf?).

Last edited by eduskator; 09-12-19 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 09-12-19, 12:35 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Speaking of D-FLY, how do you like the wireless module & its features on your bike's computer / on your smartphone? I'm a little hesitant to buy one with all the mix . I've read that it does not connect properly sometimes (being ''too distant'' from the bike's computer or their cellphones even if it's like 2-3 feet away. One actually installed it close to the battery inside the seat tube and he had issues with the connection). Also, do you have E-TUBE on your smartphone? I've also read threads on forums where owners actually lost their settings when they tried connecting it to install updates / play with the settings. Makes me wonder if it's worth it at all.

I would be ok plugging it in my laptop from time to time, but Shimano does not offer a Mac version of E-TUBE (wtf?).
I've run the gamut of experience with the WU111 unit.

The good
  • On my TCR I had a junction box (JC200) which apparently is just a cable extender that was connected in the cabling near the stem. I simply swapped that with the WU111 and didn't even need extra cabling. Since it's under the stem, it's within six inches of the Roam, so connectivity has never been an issue. It is exposed to the elements though, but Shimano claims it's weather resistant (the placement is officially supported/recommended by Shimano in the dealer's manual, along with being in the downtube near the battery).
  • D-Fly works great with my Roam. The only complaint is the slight delay between button press and effect. Still faster than taking my hands off the bars and clicking on the Roam's button, and it also lets me keep my pace.
The bad
  • iOS apps (and Apple connectivity in general) are terrible. E-Tube and E-Tube ride, both are fails. My iPhone X won't even sense or connect to the WU111. At first I thought maybe it's because I'm a beta tester for iOS and I'm on beta 13.1. But the app itself in the App Store gets 1.5 stars. Apple products in general don't seem to like Bluetooth LE signals. I know the WU111 is broadcasting because, irony of ironies, when I boot up my Mac in Windows 10 mode, it senses all the things my iPhone and Mac OS won't sense: the WU111, my Bontrager RT lights, everything.
Given the Apple ecosystem fail, I'm only going to only use the Shimano Windows PC app for anything mission critical, like major setting changes or firmware updates. Again, ironically, I have that set up on my Windows partition of a Mac laptop.
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Old 09-12-19, 02:48 PM
  #32  
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Yep, that's what I read... Looks like Shimano and Apple isn't a love story.
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Old 09-12-19, 03:38 PM
  #33  
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To go one further: Bluetooth LE and Apple isn't a love story. Apple says "you can control BTLE devices through the appropriate apps", which in Shimano's case are broken af on iOS. But also maddening that none of my Apple devices can sense any BTLE (like the Bontrager lights) while Windows easily does.
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Old 09-14-19, 06:18 PM
  #34  
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I also picked up a 2018 Cervelo S3 Disc, but mine's an Ultegra Di2 with Enve SES 3.4 wheels. I swapped out the tires and put Pirelli PZero 25mm, changed the Cervelo 100mm stem with a Cervelo 110mm stem, added a Stages Ultegra R8000 power meter and replaced the saddle with a Pro Stealth saddle.


2018 Cervelo S3 Ultegra Di2 Disc
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Old 09-14-19, 09:15 PM
  #35  
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@tony2v how do you like the 3.4s?
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Old 09-14-19, 10:01 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by tony2v View Post
I also picked up a 2018 Cervelo S3 Disc, but mine's an Ultegra Di2 with Enve SES 3.4 wheels. I swapped out the tires and put Pirelli PZero 25mm, changed the Cervelo 100mm stem with a Cervelo 110mm stem, added a Stages Ultegra R8000 power meter and replaced the saddle with a Pro Stealth saddle.


2018 Cervelo S3 Ultegra Di2 Disc
At the risk of sounding self serving, that’s a beautiful bike. Can I ask how your clearance is with 25s? I have 23c on my ENVE 5.6 which are 19mm internal width and they measure 25mm. So I’m afraid 25s will measure 27 and be too close to the seat stays.
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Old 09-15-19, 04:17 PM
  #37  
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There's just enough clearance, I won't try to fit a 28mm.
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Old 09-15-19, 04:23 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
@tony2v how do you like the 3.4s?
I love the SES 3.4. I've had a set of SES 3.4 on my Alchemy Xanthus since 2014.
Never had an issue on windy mountain switchbacks.
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Old 09-15-19, 05:19 PM
  #39  
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@tony2v yikes, that is cutting it really close! Thank you for taking the time to post those pics, very informative.

I just bought digital calipers and found something really interesting.

Here's is the Cervelo S3 with ENVE SES 5.6 Disc (19mm internal width) and Continental Grand Sport Race 23c


Here's my Giant TCR with Black Inc Thirties (17.5mm internal width) with Mavic Yksion Pro UST 25c


So the 23c on the ENVEs measure out at 25.73mm, which is nearly 3mm wider than listed, while the 25c on the Black Incs only measure1.4mm (26.4) wider than expected.

I'm afraid if I order 25c tires for the ENVE it will significantly exceed what the 25c Mavics on the BIs come in at.

However, a friend suggested to me that the Conti 5K TL (which would be my TL tire of choice) measure close to spec. Sure enough, I just measured my backup wheels/tires combo: 28c Conti 5K TL on Bontrager Aeolus Pro 3 wheels, which according to Trek's site has a 19.5mm internal width (so actually 0.5mm wider than the ENVEs) and here's what they measure at:

So the Conti 5K TLs do only 0.81mm wider than list, and on a 19.5 internal width rim, no less.

I think I may risk ordering 25c Conti 5Ks and hope they stay close to what the 25c on the Black Incs measure. Since that's less than a mm wider than what I have right now, there should be plenty of room. But if they measure 27.5mm or larger...I may be in trouble.
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Old 09-15-19, 06:31 PM
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Get the 25s and if they don't fit the Cervelo you can still use them on the TCR.
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Old 09-15-19, 06:36 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
Get the 25s and if they don't fit the Cervelo you can still use them on the TCR.
Haha yeah I just did that, ordered from Merlincycles for the best price. However I already have a pair of 28c 5Ks waiting for the TCR...so if it doesn't fit I'll have a queue of 5K TLs for the Giant...

If it turns out I'm locked into 23c I'll try the Schwalbe Pro One TL Easy at that size, since the GP5K TLs don't come in 23c.
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Old 09-15-19, 07:36 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by CarloM View Post
If it turns out I'm locked into 23c I'll try the Schwalbe Pro One TL Easy at that size, since the GP5K TLs don't come in 23c.
Just a heads-up - Schwalbe has recently released a new Pro 1 - the Souplesse. Supposed to be very fast and supple, very tubular-like. Supposedly good in terms of wear and decent in terms of punctures (for a racy tire, at least). Looks very interesting - I might have to get a set sometime in the next couple months if they're available at a not-too-outrageous price.
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Old 09-15-19, 08:08 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Just a heads-up - Schwalbe has recently released a new Pro 1 - the Souplesse. Supposed to be very fast and supple, very tubular-like. Supposedly good in terms of wear and decent in terms of punctures (for a racy tire, at least). Looks very interesting - I might have to get a set sometime in the next couple months if they're available at a not-too-outrageous price.
Cool! Competition is a good thing! Just read a couple of reviews. Seems promising and seem to be around $80 msrp, so comparable with 5K TL. Hopefully merlins will get some and discount similarly to the Contis. Only possible downside is that I only saw 25c and larger reviewed, though that doesn’t mean a 23c won’t be produced, just in case my S3 doesn’t play nice with 25c. But the reviews I read also said the Souplesse was designed with modern 19mm internal width rims in mind, so maybe they’ll measure close to 25mm on my ENVEs.

edit: just saw a review that said 25, 28 and 30 only. Can’t wait til biyclerollingresistance gets to test it out and provides the width once mounted.

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Old 09-15-19, 11:11 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Just a heads-up - Schwalbe has recently released a new Pro 1 - the Souplesse. Supposed to be very fast and supple, very tubular-like. Supposedly good in terms of wear and decent in terms of punctures (for a racy tire, at least). Looks very interesting - I might have to get a set sometime in the next couple months if they're available at a not-too-outrageous price.
Thanks for posting this. I'll have to try a pair when I wear my current tires out. They'll be for pavement only, I'll use another wheelset for gravel while I'm trying the Soups out.
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Old 09-29-19, 01:04 AM
  #45  
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Update: it looks like it will be no problem to fit the 25c Conti 5K TLs. They measured just 0.20mm wider than the stock Grand Sport Race 23c that came with the S3. Recall a few posts ago I showed that those measured wide on the ENVE 5.6 at 25.73mm and thus I was worried going with 25c GP5K TLs would cut it close. Here they are mounted tubeless on the ENVEs.



25.93mm! My friend was right, the GP5Ks do measure much closer to their listed width, especially in comparison with the Grand Sport Race. They also don't sit measurably taller on the wheel, so the distance between the top of the tire and my curved seat tube isn't noticeably less than before.

Going on my first ride with them tomorrow (today was a bit rainy so I didn't go on a ride).
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Old 10-04-19, 08:28 PM
  #46  
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eTap shifts A LOT slower than Di2, just saying. If you are used to the Di2 action, you will be in for a big surprise with eTap. Same goes for Shimano disc vs SRAM, the Shimano disc is a lot more crisp in feel than SRAM.
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Old 10-04-19, 08:31 PM
  #47  
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You are fine with the GP5k TL with the SES 4.5, but make you check with ENVE's page on recommended tires, especially for their newer and wider rims, e.g. the 4.5AR. Those are hookless, and they recommended specifically NOT to use GP5k TL.
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Old 10-04-19, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dalava View Post
eTap shifts A LOT slower than Di2, just saying. If you are used to the Di2 action, you will be in for a big surprise with eTap. Same goes for Shimano disc vs SRAM, the Shimano disc is a lot more crisp in feel than SRAM.
While I agree SRAM shifts slower, I would say it shifts slightly slower than Di2. I literally go between my TCR (most recent Ultegra Di2) and my S3 (Red eTap 11spd) and I have never felt like I was "in for a big surprise". Both have been dialed in with mechanical and micro-adjustments.

Originally Posted by dalava View Post
You are fine with the GP5k TL with the SES 4.5, but make you check with ENVE's page on recommended tires, especially for their newer and wider rims, e.g. the 4.5AR. Those are hookless, and they recommended specifically NOT to use GP5k TL.
These are not the AR series, so they're hooked rims. 5K TLs are perfectly fine to use with the standard SES (non-AR) line. I've chatted with ENVE CSR directly on this.
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Old 10-05-19, 08:07 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by dalava View Post
Same goes for Shimano disc vs SRAM, the Shimano disc is a lot more crisp in feel than SRAM.
I noticed this too. My Shimano DA disc brakes work and feel much better than my Sram Force disc brakes. I swapped on a set of the Hope RX4 calipers and I am much happier overall. Better modulation, power, and are even a tad lighter according to internet reports.
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Old 10-05-19, 10:05 AM
  #50  
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My Ultegra hydros work much better than my Force 22 hydros ever did.
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