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Early/mid 70's Colnago help

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Early/mid 70's Colnago help

Old 11-23-07, 06:09 PM
  #26  
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Colnago decals of that vintage didn't stick all that well, and weren't clearcoated. Could be the original owner stripped them off. The decals on my Mexico have been steadily peeling off.

Edit: the decal set available thru yellow jersey, on one sheet is enough to do like 3 bikes...supers, mexicos, and the early style. It seems expansive but you can use what you need and sell off what you don't.

Last edited by satbuilder; 11-23-07 at 07:15 PM. Reason: additional info
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Old 11-23-07, 08:11 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by caterham View Post
or more likely, it was originally purchased as a frameset and primarily built up from the components he could transfer from his previous bike.
No...I mean that the frame itself could have been partially assembled and stockpiled at the factory until orders led to final assembly...Masi and the early Trek operation (and probably lots of others) worked like this. So you sometimes see an older frameset with a sale date significantly after it was manufactured.
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Old 11-23-07, 08:28 PM
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I dunno. With the mix of parts I would think that the original owner piecemealed the bike together.

I have seen at least one other bike in the original owners collection, and it would seem that there was something about decals that he didn't like. In other words, his other bike was totally lacking in a decal of any sort. I know he has another bike that may become available soon. I'd be interested to know if it has a decal on it. If I was a gambler (and I'm not), I'd bet that it is 'clean' as well.

His other bike (that I've seen), was an eclectic mix of parts that worked well together.

IE: Campy Record hubs laced to 27" Weinmann eyeleted alloy touring rims, with a Sugino AT Triple and Suntour Mountech dérailleurs. All on a very nice 531 custom touring frame. He did leave the tubing decal on that one, but no others. Oh, yeah, foam grips on the Cinelli bars, attached to a Cinelli stem panto'ed with a different manufacturer!

Go figure.
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Old 11-24-07, 07:37 AM
  #29  
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An update to the original Colnago dating. This is the one I found a few weeks ago...

COLNAGO DATING

To the subject of clubs on decals and clubs cut into lugs...

Ernesto Colnago has stated that the inspiration for changing his logo
to the Ace of Clubs was the result of Michele Dancelli winning the
'70 Milano-San Remo for Molteni while riding a Colnago. "La
Primavera" (the spring) is the nickname for Milan-San Remo and the
Ace of Clubs represents the spring flowers.

Steven Maasland previously elaborated about the club/flower tie in:
"The 'asso di fiore' is correctly translated as 'ace of clubs',
however there is also a double entendre in Italian that is lost here
as 'Fiore' is also 'flower', the symbol of the San Remo area. After
the San Remo race win, Colnago spoke to the very well-known Italian
sports reporter, Bruno Raschi, who was preparing his race report.
He came up with the saying that the 'in fiore' bike won the race.
This was a play on the fact that the race known for the 'riviera dei
fiori' (flower coast) as well as 'in fiore' (flowering or blooming).
That particular race win was very important for Italian cycling
because it was the first San Remo race won by an Italian in many
years, hence the 'flowering' part in the 'flower' race."

Okay, so that would explain the "playing card" club logo decals used
later in 1970, but what about Colnagos built before that date with
the same club shape cut in the lugs?

It has been mentioned before that the club cut in the lugs of the
Colnago Super was a tribute to Gloria where Ernesto Colnago first
apprenticed at 13 years of age and worked for almost a decade.
Gloria used a large lily at the sides of the lugs and bottom bracket;
the three petals of the club echo the three petals of the lily.

Here's the latest version of the frame dating (some dates plus or
minus a year):

=====================================
Colnago Super Frame Dating (10.14.07)
=====================================

1968 -- First Super(?)
1968 -- Fork crown (sand cast) with two holes in each side
1968 -- Fork tangs wide, no cutouts
1968 -- Club cutouts in all three lugs
1968 -- Bottom bracket shell with drilled holes (eight in circle plus
one in center)
----
1970 -- Fork crown (investment cast semi-sloping) with two holes in
each side
1970 -- "Playing card" club decal graphics (inspired by 1970 Milano-
San Remo victory)
----
1971 -- Fork crown with clubs in top and two holes in each side
1971 -- Fork tangs narrow, no cutouts (or rarely no tangs)
1971 -- Club cutouts in all three lugs but club in lower head lug is
now larger
1971 -- Bottom bracket shell with club cutout
----
1972 -- Club/COLNAGO decal on head tube/seat tube (two seat tube
Worlds bands) and COLNAGO on down tube
1972 -- Fork tangs with two holes (or very rarely three holes tangs
or no tangs)
1972 -- Cable guide braze-ons top of bottom bracket shell
1972 -- Water bottle braze-ons on downtube
----
1973 -- Wreath seat tube decal with Worlds band at top and bottom
1973 -- Fork crown with clubs on top but no holes in each side
1973 -- Fork tangs with club cutouts (or rarely two hole tangs or no
tangs)
1973 -- Club cutout in lower head lug only
----
1974 -- Shifter braze-ons on down tube (option before this)
----
1975 -- Vertical COLNAGO seat tube decal with diagonal Worlds band at
top
----
1976 -- Fork crown with COLNAGO added to clubs on top
1976 -- Short Campagnolo or COLNAGO dropouts
----
1977 -- Top tube cable guide braze-ons (option before this)
----
1978 -- Fork crown for recessed brake bolt with shallow triangles cut
into back
1978 -- Brake bridge for recessed brake bolt
----
1980 -- Fluted seat stay caps engraved COLNAGO and straight seat
stays (no longer biconical)
1980 -- Brake bridge with cast square boss for recessed brake bolt
----
1981 -- Chain stay bridge is small spool shape (no longer tube)
----
1982 -- Chain stays stamped COLNAGO on sides
1982 -- Cable routing on underside of bottom bracket
----
1983 -- Aerodynamic fork crown

NOTE:
Dates are plus or minus one year; changes in frame details might have
occurred the end of one year or the beginning of the next for example
or may have been offered as an option before becoming standard.
Paint schemes, panels, decals and chrome varied according to how
importers spec'd their frames, so this all varied considerably and
there are lots of anomalies. ALL CORRECTIONS WELCOMED AND ENCOURAGED!

Chuck Schmidt
South Pasadena
California
USA
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Old 11-24-07, 05:09 PM
  #30  
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1982 - chain stays stamped Colnago...that would make mine an 82. I suppose that would still work for discussion at CR, though.
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Old 11-24-07, 06:16 PM
  #31  
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nice find.
is that a viner track bike in the background?
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Old 11-24-07, 08:57 PM
  #32  
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My guesstimate is 1976-1977. Based on the following.

Your fork crown doesn't have the triangular cutouts on the backside. No top tube braze-ons, short dropouts, fork crown and rear brake bridge aren't setup for recessed hardware.
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Old 11-24-07, 09:06 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by piwonka View Post
nice find.
is that a viner track bike in the background?
Don't know where redxj has been, but yes, that is a Viner track bike.

He rides it a lot in alleycats around Ann Arbor, and just tooling around.
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Old 11-24-07, 10:50 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by piwonka View Post
nice find.
is that a viner track bike in the background?
Just like OFG mention yes that is a Viner track bike. I have it up on Velospace (and my Flickr maybe), but it is way different that those pics. Here is a recent picture taken of it today. That isn't the completely normal setup as I robbed it of its bars/stem and the pedals. I just threw the 3T stem and risers on it temporarily.

As to the original thread. THANK YOU EVERYONE for the help in figuring this bike out. This new information it might be a little later than I originally thought. The main indicators of the frame are the short Campagnolo dropouts, single Clover cutout in lower head tube, Colnago and clover on the fork crown, and the clover cutout in the fork tangs. In the first Colnago history lesson posted I read through that thinking 74/75. But, given the second update and me reading through the first a little better I will agree with satbuilder and say 76/77.

Thanks again!

Last edited by redxj; 11-25-07 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 11-25-07, 12:21 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by satbuilder View Post
My guesstimate is 1976-1977. Based on the following.

Your fork crown doesn't have the triangular cutouts on the backside. No top tube braze-ons, short dropouts, fork crown and rear brake bridge aren't setup for recessed hardware.
Well done. Keep in mind that those time lines are works in progress.
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Old 11-25-07, 10:45 PM
  #36  
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The question now, is what will you do with it? Or have you already sold it?

I would imagine that you've had dozens of Colnago aficionados beating a path to your door.
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Old 11-25-07, 11:16 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by redxj View Post
Just like OFG mention yes that is a Viner track bike. I have it up on Velospace (and my Flickr maybe), but it is way different that those pics. Here is a recent picture taken of it today. That isn't the completely normal setup as I robbed it of its bars/stem and the pedals. I just threw the 3T stem and risers on it temporarily.
Dude, that is a huge frame and you have a ton of post showing, are you liek 7' all legs?
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Old 11-25-07, 11:23 PM
  #38  
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he said he weighs 270 i think. i hope he don't break that nice frame...
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Old 11-25-07, 11:41 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by piwonka View Post
he said he weighs 270 i think. i hope he don't break that nice frame...
Correct, 270 down from 290 about a year ago. Nope not 7' tall, 6'6" tall.
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Old 11-26-07, 04:20 PM
  #40  
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Satbuilder,

Thanks +1 re the updated frame dating. Noting the info about "Colnago" stamped on both chainstays and under-BB cable routing I was also able to confirm mine as a 1982. Mine also sports Colnago dropouts with a "33" stamped on the RR. Appreciate the info.
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Old 11-26-07, 07:12 PM
  #41  
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Actually, you can thank Chuck Schmidt, Eric Elman and the folks over at CR who compiled all the data. All I did was a cut and paste.

I had wondered for some time what the actual year of production was for the Mexico I bought several years ago. The data supplied in that timeline, even though it's a work in progress, has narrowed it down for me. Looks like mine's right around 1978.

Kurt
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Old 11-28-07, 06:16 PM
  #42  
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One thing I notice about old Italian bikes you see now days is the brake cables are almost always reversed from what was considered the "Italian" way in the 1970's. That is, the right brake lever operated the front brake not the rear as is the convention today. Take a look at the Masi pic in the link.
http://www.43bikes.com/masi.html
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Old 11-28-07, 06:33 PM
  #43  
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I think this is an Italian bike from the golden era:


OR THIS:
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Old 11-28-07, 07:02 PM
  #44  
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look at the guy to his right. is cable is right/front left/rear
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Old 11-28-07, 09:10 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by yellowjeep View Post
look at the guy to his right. is cable is right/front left/rear
Pretty common Euro deal people. Of course, if you're worried about using the brakes ...
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Old 11-28-07, 10:18 PM
  #46  
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oh no. i know. I set up my fix with the front (only) on the right so i can use my left to signal and still be able to brake just in
case. Its pretty convenient that way.
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Old 09-15-19, 08:17 AM
  #47  
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1976 Colnago Super

Ah the internet... where else can you reply to a 12 year old conversation. Perhaps this will help someone else who has just acquired a new to them Colnago from the ‘70’s. The Molteni Orange Colnago pictured above is a 1976. The combination of Campagnolo 1010B dropouts and clip on top tube cable guides and the name Colnago in the forkcrown all point to ‘76.


I have a 1975 Super. It’s details are: brazed on shift lever mounts, clover only in fork crown. Clover in fork reinforcing tangs, cut out in forward bottom bracket shell tang and top tube cable clips and Campagnolo 1010 long dropouts. And transition decals. 72-74 clover but with rainbow background. This looks different from the black clover world champion striped logo we would all come to know.

1974 saw no cutout in the forward bottom bracket tang, clover cutout in the fork tang reinforcements, clip on top tube cable guides, long dropouts and clamp on shifters.

1973 two hole fork tang reinforcements, long rear dropouts, no cutout in the forward bottom bracket tang, clamp on shifters

1972 saw as above but with a clover cutout in the top tube and seat tube lugs.

All of the above can move one year in either direction depending on when the frame was made and sold.
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Old 09-15-19, 10:24 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Lord Donnington View Post
Ah the internet... where else can you reply to a 12 year old conversation. Perhaps this will help someone else who has just acquired a new to them Colnago from the ‘70’s. The Molteni Orange Colnago pictured above is a 1976. The combination of Campagnolo 1010B dropouts and clip on top tube cable guides and the name Colnago in the forkcrown all point to ‘76.


I have a 1975 Super. It’s details are: brazed on shift lever mounts, clover only in fork crown. Clover in fork reinforcing tangs, cut out in forward bottom bracket shell tang and top tube cable clips and Campagnolo 1010 long dropouts. And transition decals. 72-74 clover but with rainbow background. This looks different from the black clover world champion striped logo we would all come to know.

1974 saw no cutout in the forward bottom bracket tang, clover cutout in the fork tang reinforcements, clip on top tube cable guides, long dropouts and clamp on shifters.

1973 two hole fork tang reinforcements, long rear dropouts, no cutout in the forward bottom bracket tang, clamp on shifters

1972 saw as above but with a clover cutout in the top tube and seat tube lugs.

All of the above can move one year in either direction depending on when the frame was made and sold.
Colnago attributes are often... variable. Small frames often received shorter fork reinforcements with no cutouts.

My 1972 has no bottom bracket socket windows, holes in the fork reinforcements, no clover cutouts on the top tube lugs
My 1973, has bottom bracket windows, and clover fork reinforcement piercings. (bigger downtube typography too the balance of the graphics are similar)

In Southern California, we marked the end of the cutouts on the top tube as a 1971 last year thing. This was in 1973.
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Old 09-15-19, 06:31 PM
  #49  
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How about 3 holes in the fork tangs? What year does that point to? All other details, decals included, point to ‘73.
Thoughts?
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Old 09-16-19, 12:43 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by luker View Post
lack of top tube guides say Ernesto...if it is an early 70's, he was still running the torch, and that makes this a real find.
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Colnago attributes are often... variable. Small frames often received shorter fork reinforcements with no cutouts.

My 1972 has no bottom bracket socket windows, holes in the fork reinforcements, no clover cutouts on the top tube lugs
My 1973, has bottom bracket windows, and clover fork reinforcement piercings. (bigger downtube typography too the balance of the graphics are similar)

In Southern California, we marked the end of the cutouts on the top tube as a 1971 last year thing. This was in 1973.
Hello,

I was wondering what do you mean with "bottom bracket socket windows"

I just started to restore a barn find Super that I found last summer from Italy. I have been wondering if my frame is something special or one of these bike boom ones that everyone seems to dislike. The time frame I have been able to pull from different sources varies from 72 to 74. I hope it could be from 72.

I will post pictures when I get enough posts but the details of the frame are following:

Small 49 frame in electric blue, I'm 99 percent sure that it is the original paint with original decals

Bottom bracket shell with club cutout
Yellow Club decal on head tube
No Fork tangs
Wreath seat tube decal with Worlds band at top and bottom
Club cutout in lower head lug only
Fork crown with clubs on top but no holes in each side
Cable guide braze-ons top of bottom bracket shell
Water bottle braze-ons on downtube

No Shifter braze-ons on down tube
No Top tube cable guide braze-ons

One detail that I don't see discussed here is that the Columbus tubing decal seems to be from 72. Not that it is a way to date the frame but its another clue.

So... is there a possibility that this could have been worked by Ernesto himself and what is general opinion on frames from these years? I'm debating on about should I keep or sell the bike when its finnished.

All the best,
Toni
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