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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Pitbull Pedal is back

Old 08-26-19, 10:11 AM
  #26  
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Hey everyone! A question came up earlier about rebuilding the pedal. So I made a short video and put it on YouTube.
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Old 08-26-19, 12:19 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post
If you are talking about the 2" diameter area by 1/16th" thick that is our lead to engage the system. Simply put your foot against the side and push forward and you will automatically engage. As far as comical that doesn't seem like the right word but whatever works for you works for me. In person on the bike it all blends in.
It looks comically large and I don't think it blends in at all. Based off what you said above, it's also unnecessary. I don't feel even a beginner needs that level of assistance and certainly not anyone with experience.

To me, that's going to unnecessarily limit your potential customer base. I'd personally be much more likely to consider it if that wasn't present.

That's just how I feel, not that my opinion has any bearing on your business.
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Old 08-26-19, 01:17 PM
  #28  
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Thanks for your opinion, no opinions will upset me either good or ill. Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts. In this case the 2" guide washer could easily be removed if the customer liked how easy it worked but wanted it to appear smaller. It would maybe be a $25 job at a machinist to put it in a lathe and remove it. I have actually been riding previously on an old set that had the glass filled nylon. One of them broke so I intentionally broke the other off so it would look the same. The pedal worked perfectly fine and it didn't cause any issues at all. So cosmetically it could be up to an individual to keep it or get rid of it.
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Old 08-26-19, 02:53 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post
Thanks for your opinion, no opinions will upset me either good or ill. Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts. In this case the 2" guide washer could easily be removed if the customer liked how easy it worked but wanted it to appear smaller. It would maybe be a $25 job at a machinist to put it in a lathe and remove it. I have actually been riding previously on an old set that had the glass filled nylon. One of them broke so I intentionally broke the other off so it would look the same. The pedal worked perfectly fine and it didn't cause any issues at all. So cosmetically it could be up to an individual to keep it or get rid of it.
Would it be possible to somehow design that as an option that can be removed by you, before it's shipped? Also, if you're successful with this pedal do you plan to potentially provide options for a narrower pedal, potentially?
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Old 08-26-19, 03:49 PM
  #30  
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If needed we could ship with out the lead. I don`t think we can make it much narrower may be 1/4 inch max.
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Old 08-26-19, 03:52 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post
2. Back to opinions, we do believe that there is room for another pedal. Especially one that works as easy as ours does. Not necessarily how fast it is but how easy it is to engage. Anyone getting into road bikes should pick our pedal as it should fit everyone's needs and the pricing will be super competitive as our overhead is almost zero and we're not trying to make the big bucks. Just having some fun.

Shimano SPD pedals are also really easy to engage and they can be purchased new for under $35. As a bonus, they're really easy to walk in when they're used with mountain biking shoes.


Your overhead may be low, but Shimano's volume is enormous. Can you reduce your present production cost by a factor of 50? That's what you'd likely have to do to compete with Shimano on price.


In this case the 2" guide washer could easily be removed if the customer liked how easy it worked but wanted it to appear smaller. It would maybe be a $25 job at a machinist to put it in a lathe and remove it.

If the guide washer can't be removed using ordinary tools, it's effectively a permanent part of the pedal. Consumers are not going to seek out a machine shop to have their pedals modified.
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Old 08-26-19, 04:30 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post
If needed we could ship with out the lead. I don`t think we can make it much narrower may be 1/4 inch max.
Good deal. I'd have to say given the above, I may now be interested. Thank you for your time today.
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Old 08-26-19, 05:51 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post
5. As far as the cleats wearing out, I think that they should last as long as any of the other molded cleats. I personally walked 2 miles on them with an aggressive pace and they still worked perfectly fine. I cannot imagine how long they would last if you were on your bike, get off at a coffee shop, walk maybe 100 feet, stop at a store to get a gatorade, walk a little bit. At that rate they should last many many months and they would be extremely inexpensive from us to replace.
I am a little confused about the cleat wear issue. One reviewer expressed concern about wear when using prototype aluminum cleats and you suggested that a steel cleat was in the works to combat this issue (paraphrasing here). Now you seem to be going the opposite direction with an injection molded plastic cleat. Honestly, the latter seems like a terrible idea given the design of the cleat but perhaps you have done testing that proves it is durable enough. Here’s hoping you have or at least will before investing in injection molding tooling.

As a fellow product designer, prototyper, and small volume manufacturer, if you need help sourcing parts or tooling at any level, let me know. I live for this stuff and am lucky enough to also make my living doing it.
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Old 08-27-19, 09:28 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Shimano SPD pedals are also really easy to engage and they can be purchased new for under $35. As a bonus, they're really easy to walk in when they're used with mountain biking shoes.Your overhead may be low, but Shimano's volume is enormous. Can you reduce your present production cost by a factor of 50? That's what you'd likely have to do to compete with Shimano on price.
If the guide washer can't be removed using ordinary tools, it's effectively a permanent part of the pedal. Consumers are not going to seek out a machine shop to have their pedals modified.
As far as competing with MB pedals I don't think that it is the road we are trying to go down. Our pricing will be highly competitive.
With regards to the lead washer, the person below had mentioned it. We could offer it without the lead if people wanted it very easily. It could even be a direct order from us.


Originally Posted by em_525 View Post
Good deal. I'd have to say given the above, I may now be interested. Thank you for your time today.
I appreciate you actually understanding the pedal system and it truly does work just as well as I have it in the videos. Thanks

Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
I am a little confused about the cleat wear issue. One reviewer expressed concern about wear when using prototype aluminum cleats and you suggested that a steel cleat was in the works to combat this issue (paraphrasing here). Now you seem to be going the opposite direction with an injection molded plastic cleat. Honestly, the latter seems like a terrible idea given the design of the cleat but perhaps you have done testing that proves it is durable enough. Here’s hoping you have or at least will before investing in injection molding tooling.
As a fellow product designer, prototyper, and small volume manufacturer, if you need help sourcing parts or tooling at any level, let me know. I live for this stuff and am lucky enough to also make my living doing it.
As far as the cleats go, our process has been going on for a long time. When gear junkie mentioned the wear it was only superficial scratches and had no damage whatsoever. The reason that we have gone to the glass filled nylon is we can make the product for extremely less money and the durability is able to be proven by myself as I had walked 2 miles consecutively on rough concrete sidewalks. When I did that test I was walking in full stride which would be the absolute worst on a nylon cleat. If you were picking your feet up and down, keeping your foot flat, I think that the pedal could last 3 times that long.

Thank you for the offer for the help, fortunately my partner is a machinist/mold maker. This is no get rich scheme like I had said, it is just a couple of old bucks having some fun. If you could sell ten or 20 sets a week or month across the entire US we would probably be satisfied. Thanks again for the offer of assistance.
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Old 08-27-19, 10:46 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post
As far as competing with MB pedals I don't think that it is the road we are trying to go down.
You're claiming the main attribute of your pedals is easy engagement, which will appeal to a beginner cyclist. If that beginner cyclist walks into a bike shop and asks about easy-to-use pedals, the shop is likely going to steer him/her towards a bunch of two-sided pedals, including SPD and other mountain bike pedals. So, like it or not, you most certainly will be competing with mountain bike pedals.

(You realize that many people use SPD-style pedals on road bikes, yes?)
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Old 08-27-19, 04:20 PM
  #36  
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I'd suggest that aside from the 360 degree engagement, the biggest potential selling point is the minimalism, which is totally spoiled by the huge flange. It looks a bit rough at the outside end too; could that bit be more spherical?
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Old 08-28-19, 08:52 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
You're claiming the main attribute of your pedals is easy engagement, which will appeal to a beginner cyclist. If that beginner cyclist walks into a bike shop and asks about easy-to-use pedals, the shop is likely going to steer him/her towards a bunch of two-sided pedals, including SPD and other mountain bike pedals. So, like it or not, you most certainly will be competing with mountain bike pedals.
(You realize that many people use SPD-style pedals on road bikes, yes?)
Like I had said we are not trying to set record goals in selling bike pedals. We're just trying to offer a new model that is extremely easy to use for a beginner or a weekend warrior. As if you are riding in a group ride and you happen to be in the front of the group, you will simply pull away from everyone and they will all have to catch back up to you. If you are in the middle, you won't miss the pedal and cause a slow speed crash with the guy behind you. We are thinking about offering the pedals in titanium also if the whole process ever works out. Also yes I am familiar with many different road and mountain bike pedals, I just think that roadies want to be known as roadies and not roadies with mtb shoes. Just my thought.


Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
I'd suggest that aside from the 360 degree engagement, the biggest potential selling point is the minimalism, which is totally spoiled by the huge flange. It looks a bit rough at the outside end too; could that bit be more spherical?
As far as the flange, I personally think that it looks ok. Since we would be a new pedal that people would be ordering from us, we could offer it with the flange removed. Yes the outside could be more spherical. But we thought with the large blunt end with slight radii it would have the largest flat spot in case it did hit you or another cyclist.
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Old 08-28-19, 08:54 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post
We're just trying to offer a new model that is extremely easy to use for a beginner or a weekend warrior. As if you are riding in a group ride and you happen to be in the front of the group, you will simply pull away from everyone and they will all have to catch back up to you.
So, these pedals will allow beginners to drop a group by clipping in a split-second faster, rather than say ... pedaling harder? Awesome.

If you are in the middle, you won't miss the pedal and cause a slow speed crash with the guy behind you.
If someone crashes into me because I didn't clip in fast enough, that's not the fault of my pedals -- it's the fault of the doofus that crashed into me.

Also yes I am familiar with many different road and mountain bike pedals, I just think that roadies want to be known as roadies and not roadies with mtb shoes. Just my thought.
SPDs are just one example of a two-sided pedal. Some are MTB pedals but many are road pedals. They are all, in general, very easy to clip into and some are very inexpensive. Like it or not, you will be competing with them.

Most beginners couldn't tell you the difference between road shoes and MTB shoes.
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Old 08-29-19, 08:17 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
So, these pedals will allow beginners to drop a group by clipping in a split-second faster, rather than say ... pedaling harder? Awesome.
If someone crashes into me because I didn't clip in fast enough, that's not the fault of my pedals -- it's the fault of the doofus that crashed into me.
SPDs are just one example of a two-sided pedal. Some are MTB pedals but many are road pedals. They are all, in general, very easy to clip into and some are very inexpensive. Like it or not, you will be competing with them.
Most beginners couldn't tell you the difference between road shoes and MTB shoes.
I have to agree with a lot of what you are saying, it is absolutely true. I'm not a giant company like Shimano or LOOK, etc. I am only trying to get a few percentage points of the market. Its just a couple guys having fun. We do have a Pitbull Shoe in the works that would make our cleats walkable.
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Old 08-29-19, 09:21 AM
  #40  
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I agree that the pedal looks a bit unfinished. I think some more gradual curves as well as removing the plate on the inside would go a long way towards making the pedals look better.
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Old 08-29-19, 09:34 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post
We do have a Pitbull Shoe in the works that would make our cleats walkable.
Again, this doesn't strike me as a good idea. Cycling shoe fit is so highly personal and so incredibly variable that I can't see a small player doing anything but flush their money down the drain with this kind of endeavor. Even if you or one of your partners happened to be an expert in the field of foot mechanics, you'd have to consider the number of shoes you'd hope to sell vs production considerations while factoring in availability in multiple sizes, etc.
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Old 08-29-19, 09:35 AM
  #42  
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This is a solution to a problem with a solution to another problem, that's technically not even a problem.
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Old 08-29-19, 12:40 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
I agree that the pedal looks a bit unfinished. I think some more gradual curves as well as removing the plate on the inside would go a long way towards making the pedals look better.
I'm open to any suggestions. I don't exactly follow where you would like to curve it. Could you sketch it so I could see what you mean?

Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Again, this doesn't strike me as a good idea. Cycling shoe fit is so highly personal and so incredibly variable that I can't see a small player doing anything but flush their money down the drain with this kind of endeavor. Even if you or one of your partners happened to be an expert in the field of foot mechanics, you'd have to consider the number of shoes you'd hope to sell vs production considerations while factoring in availability in multiple sizes, etc.
I understand completely. It is amazing how low you can get things made, unfortunately outside of the US. It'll almost make you sick to find out what the numbers really are. No wonder why we can't compete.

Originally Posted by 69chevy View Post
This is a solution to a problem with a solution to another problem, that's technically not even a problem.
I don't know. I understand that it isn't a horrific problem, but I do have to say that it is a problem. If we can make them as inexpensive as it appears that we can, I think that we may be onto something. In a lot of the GCN videos they talk about missing their clip in as they are taking off. I'm not trying to save the world, I'm just trying to make a simpler system to operate and make it totally re-buildable.
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Old 08-29-19, 12:43 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post
I understand completely. It is amazing how low you can get things made, unfortunately outside of the US. It'll almost make you sick to find out what the numbers really are. No wonder why we can't compete.
....and you're still going to lose money on it.


But, oh well, flush away.
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Old 08-29-19, 01:24 PM
  #45  
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If you can get Bernard and Greg to use them; I'm in.
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Old 08-29-19, 03:33 PM
  #46  
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I don't think occasionally missing clipping in is a problem. I do think walkability is a problem. I've seen people fall in road shoes on smooth floors, like at lunch or water stops.

I used SPD pedals for years and recommend them to new cyclists when they ask, ease of use and walkability being the main reasons. I only switched to legitimate road pedals to get a power meter.
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Old 08-29-19, 06:25 PM
  #47  
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The Pitbull pedal is very similar to the Aerolite pedals as previously pointed out. I liked them quite a bit, and they were easy to use. I used them for all my riding including commuting, touring, racing, and winter commuting. Riding in the rain caused problems as the water mixed with the road grit and created a friction element that wore out the cleats every year.

I had been using Look pedals for many years and never replaced the cleats. To this day I still use the old Look Delta cleats and pedals. Cleats are replaced every 5 or 6 years, and the pedals simply last forever without need to rebuild.

OP is wise not to chase the big players. Online sales will be their only hope to start as bike shops will likely be unwilling or unable to support the unknown brand. Venders like QBP or J&B will be in the same boat. A very well designed webpage and sales portal will be absolutely necessary, and a very well put together social media platform essential to get the word out. I am sure you all know the drill. Good luck, my friend!
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Old 08-30-19, 12:08 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
....and you're still going to lose money on it.
But, oh well, flush away.
If you are just talking about the shoes they would come in the future. If I could ever get the pedal to make just a little bit of profit. Enough to make this fun and interesting.

Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
If you can get Bernard and Greg to use them; I'm in.
I may be able to get Bernard and Greg to use them, but I doubt they'd be the same people you are talking about.

Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I don't think occasionally missing clipping in is a problem. I do think walkability is a problem. I've seen people fall in road shoes on smooth floors, like at lunch or water stops.
I used SPD pedals for years and recommend them to new cyclists when they ask, ease of use and walkability being the main reasons. I only switched to legitimate road pedals to get a power meter.
Sounds like I won't be selling you a set. Enjoy the pedals you are using.

Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
The Pitbull pedal is very similar to the Aerolite pedals as previously pointed out. I liked them quite a bit, and they were easy to use. I used them for all my riding including commuting, touring, racing, and winter commuting. Riding in the rain caused problems as the water mixed with the road grit and created a friction element that wore out the cleats every year.
I had been using Look pedals for many years and never replaced the cleats. To this day I still use the old Look Delta cleats and pedals. Cleats are replaced every 5 or 6 years, and the pedals simply last forever without need to rebuild.
OP is wise not to chase the big players. Online sales will be their only hope to start as bike shops will likely be unwilling or unable to support the unknown brand. Venders like QBP or J&B will be in the same boat. A very well designed webpage and sales portal will be absolutely necessary, and a very well put together social media platform essential to get the word out. I am sure you all know the drill. Good luck, my friend!
I really appreciate the words of encouragement, the worst that can happen is we fail.
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Old 08-30-19, 02:53 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post


As far as the refinement on the pedals, I really don't know exactly what you mean. Maybe in your opinion the simplicity of the pedal isn't visually catching your eye. But as far as refinement they are a perfectly machined stainless steel outer core. They couldn't be any more refined.

They could have sealed bearings...
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Old 09-03-19, 08:12 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Jax Rhapsody View Post
They could have sealed bearings...
They are sealed bearings.
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