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Broken down in Germany, seriously need help.

Old 09-02-19, 02:44 AM
  #1  
Scylipt
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Broken down in Germany, seriously need help.

Hello,

I have a Befang 1500w rear electric wheel.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F191969022692

In brief,

1) l may need to buy a new controller, is it possible to buy use one different to the one supplied with the wheel?

2) Am I correct in my research about the error code?

3) Does anyone know of a fast way to get a controller. The ebike repair shop I'm at said getting a befang controller in Germany will be difficult.


After going up a very bumpy off road track the LCD gave me an error 9 code. After a little research I believe either a connector for the LCD has come away or the controller is fried. After noticing something rattling inside the wheel hub I opened it up but couldn't get to the problem as it was on the difficult to open side because of the magnets. It's now at a bike shop and I'm waiting for a call once they open the magnet side and find out what's rattling around.

The reason I'm asking here is that it's very difficult to communicate in English in Germany and I'm hoping for a community solution.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
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Old 09-02-19, 11:48 AM
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A competent ebike shop can hook up a known good controller to your motor and determine whether the motor is still working. Any controller will work to test the motor if they get the wires correct. Even that is not a showstopper, as there are "learning" controllers that can be hooked with random Hall wires mixed, and they figure out the firing order. There are even controllers that don't need hall sensors if you're worried that the ones you installed went bad. So if your shop is any good, let them figure it out. Miggt be expensive though,.

Unless they have a controller that works with your display, if you need a new controller, then you have to buy it with a new display.
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Old 09-02-19, 11:56 AM
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Here's another fellow broken down and stranded in Yurp, https://www.bikeforums.net/electric-...need-help.html Bummer they don't have competent shops over there.
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Old 09-02-19, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Here's another fellow broken down and stranded in Yurp, https://www.bikeforums.net/electric-...need-help.html Bummer they don't have competent shops over there.
Same individual.
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Old 09-02-19, 12:04 PM
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Is the LED display needed, or can you ride the bike without it?

I thought many Germans had pretty good English skills. Perhaps you could find an interpreter, or someone to help you with translations, although bicycles and E-Bikes may have a specialized language that would challenge some interpreters.
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Old 09-03-19, 01:39 AM
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Hi and thanks all for the input.

I am Indeed the same chap who's broken down before.

Personally I don't need the led but I'm not sure if the bike does.

For whatever reason the bike repair shop are unwilling to figure out how to connect a non standard controller to the wheel.

Ive taken a short video of the issue which I'll upload to YouTube and leave a link here.

As there's no noticeable defective wireing or damaged connectors I believe it's either the controller or wheel. If I know which is the problem I may be able to buy a replacement. The problem is that nobody in Germany deals with Befang meaning I'd have to have one shipped in and while waiting the month or so for it to arrive from China, my funds will have run out.

I basically need a solution to get a part(s) here asap.maybe somebody knows a dealer outside of China or of another way?

Any help is greatly appreciated. I'm currently camping in a kind Germans guys garden, but I don't want to over stay my welcome.
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Old 09-03-19, 08:15 AM
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This is the link to the short video so you can see the back wheel move while completely disconnected
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Old 09-03-19, 09:29 AM
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Does it say Bafang on the motor? I didn't think they sold many gearless motors. Is the wheel much harder to turn than before, with nothing connected? If it is, then a winding is short circuited. If it is much harder to turn when connected, then the controller is responsible for the short circuit, but with the bike at the shop, that's up to them.

Anyway, the brand doesn't matter. Motors and controllers are interchangeable, unless you go into the proprietary brands like Bionx, who send coded phrases back and forth between the battery and motor to ensure only their parts are used.

It wouldn't be the first hill climb that killed a motor and controller. I have read that the hubs get so hot, it melts the solder and parts fall off. Or the glue softens on magnet and it moves a bit and starts running on something.


Suggest
(1) have shop replace what they can
(2) have a better shop replace controller/motor.
(3) get on ebay's german site and order another similar kit from someone in country. Maybe you can do some work for your host.

Good luck though!
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Old 09-03-19, 09:46 AM
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I've been speaking to a seller on eBay who seems very knowledgeable on this matter. The full conversation is below. Read from the bottom up.

New message: My advice is the same as it was previ...





New message from: danielrlee1980 (9,324)

My advice is the same as it was previously.

You have a motor with shorted phase wires. You might also have a controller with a number of shorted FETs, but you'd need to test the controller to confirm this.

I can provide you testing instructions if you have a multimeter.

If you'd rather not spend any time testing and want to get back on the road as quickly as possible, your best bet would be to replace the whole kit, minus the battery, possibly purchasing from somewhere with next-day delivery.

DanReply

Your previous message

Hi Dan,

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you I've been running around doing everything I can to get back on the road.

Here is the link to an ebike forum I'm current trying to get help on also.

https://www.bikeforums.net/electric-...l#post21105516

I've uploaded a video there but if you want to stick to eBay then it's fine by me the link to the video is


It's looking like I need parts, quick I'm hoping I may be able to afford if I get the money this Friday. The problem is getting them here fast. I'm wondering as your in the business that you may have contacts or a way to get the parts I need asap. Of course I don't expect this kind of help for free and I'll do what I can to repay anything you can do to help me back on the road and finish my journey
danielrlee1980:

Yes, juddering with the motor disconnected indicates a faulty motor (shorted phase wires).

It's also possible that the controller is damaged. With the controller switched off and disconnected from the motor, the bike shop would need to measure the resistance between the controller phase wires and battery ground. The value should read the same between all phases. The same test then needs repeating between the controller phase wires and battery positive. If the resistance of any phase differs from the others, it indicates a shorted controller FET.

If the bike shop needs help, you might want to show them this message.

Dan
Your previous message

I am at the shop now . They tried to move the wheel while it was disconnected but it still judders They think the motor may be the problem as when he turns it with a spanner it still juddrrs. Is this possibly corre t?danielrlee1980:

As stated previously, you need to find the cause of the wheel juddering. The test is simple - spin the motor once disconnected from the controller and see if the juddering stops. If you're lucky, it will.

Let me know the result of the above test and I will advise accordingly.
Your previous message

This is all going a bit over my head now.i guess it doesn't matter to me the ins and outs of why, I just really need to know if I'll be needing a new controller. The sooner I can realise my situation the faster I can resolve it because currently I have very limited funds and nowhere to sleep. I have to make a huge choice of dumping the bike and my journey and using what money I have left to find an alternative way home. I obviously don't want to do this as the bike if unique and very nice. Do you have an idea of a way to get the correct controller over to me asap? Would a new controller fix the issue?

Thanks again Dan for all your help
danielrlee1980:

No, not necessarily. If the motor still judders when disconnected, the phases are shorted. At the point the phases became shorted, the resulting electrical short could have also caused a number of controller FETs to fail, although further testing would be required to identify this.

If the fault is due to a shorted controller FET, but the motor is okay, being plugged into the motor will effectively cause a motor short.

Take a disconnected motor and try connecting a number of the motor phases together (create a motor short). Try and spin the motor and you will notice that you have recreated the juddering that you are experiencing.
Your previous message

So either way the controller is faulty?

I don't see how with the battery disconnected a working of faulty controller can effect how the wheel spins?
danielrlee1980:

The answer to that question should tell you where the fault lies.

If the juddering stops when the motor is disconnected, the controller is faulty with a shorted FET or two. If the juddering continues, then the motor is faulty with a shorted phase wire and possibly a shorted FET in the controller too.

Dan
Your previous message

I'm not sure about that and I can't test it yet as they have the wheel. I did disconnect the battery completely though and that didn't help. I then asked then if the wheel was ok after they removed the loose spoke inside the frame of the wheel and they said they saw no damage, but need the rest of the bike to test it fully. Called them 3 times now, each time they said they were nearly there.....danielrlee1980:

If you disconnect the motor phases (3 thick wires) from the controller, does the juddering disappear?Your previous message

Yes but I'm not sure how to use one, fully. I did notice that when I was pushing the bike, with the power off, the wheel was juddering, vibrating, wasn't spinning freely, intermittently sticking, becoming stiff, every short turn of the wheel. Just had another look at the cables and there are a few not connected but I believe this is due to them not needing to be. The yellow box is the power and the white connector is the sensor housing. Both disconnected due to the wheel been removeddanielrlee1980:

Do you have an electrical multimeter?Your previous message

I remember seeing a few connector not connected but couldn't fit them together. The sensor and power wires seemed fine. I'm just about to go back outside and have another look. If I see anything untowards I'll let you know. They still haven't picked the bike up. There was another wire that had broken loose, a light I fitted, so it's possible something else may have also.danielrlee1980:

Sorry, yes I meant error 09.

Nothing obvious comes to mind from your comments. Hopefully the bike shop will be able to identify a specific fault from some basic testing.

Had you examined any of the connectors yourself before the bike shop collected the bike, specifically the motor phase and hall sensor connections? These often cause problems, especially when running at maximum power for prolonged periods, such as when climbing hills.

Dan
Your previous message

It's error 9 not 8

The error appears when the power is switched on. When the handlebar acceleration is used it disappears and the notification of error 9 is replaced by the normal screen as if it's working normally. No power at all.
danielrlee1980:

Other than an indication of a “hot controller”, you haven't actually provided any details of the problem. While we're still awaiting news from the bike shop, I have a few questions about your issue:

I'm assuming that the LCD display still powers on since you have notification of 'error 08'. Does the LCD display still appear to work and respond to your input using the handlebar controls?

Does the 'error 08' message appear when the bike is powered on, or only when you try and apply motor power through either a throttle or pedal sensor?

Are you able to get the motor to move under battery power at all, even a shudder or a twitch?

Dan
Your previous message

They are picking the bike up at 2pm , I hope all this isn't going to be expencive, I'll update you when I know more.danielrlee1980:

It's impossible to give any specific advice without being able to run some basic troubleshooting tests with a multimeter. It sounds like the bike shop you are dealing with intend to carry out the required testing, so you will have to wait for their verdict unless you are able to test yourself.

Within reason, you can use whichever controller you want, but you'll also have to replace your existing LCD display if it is not compatible. Also, connectors are likely to differ on a replacement controller, so you will probably need to carry out a bit of basic rewiring too.

Dan
Your previous message

Sorry for the delay. We can remove the rattle as any cause of the problem. It was a spoke end. The error code appeared after i har got to the top of the bumpy hill. I had been pushing the motor hard and the controller was quite warm, maybe hot as I couldn't feel it directly. This makes me wonder if it burnt out because the error appeared after id got to the top onto the flat and tried to use it again, though after initial inspection I can't see any burnt out parts. They are picking the bike up soon to examine it but the main problem I have is if the controller is indeed the problem. This is why my initial question was if a non standard controller could be used as they can't get befang here. I need to find a way to get one and quite quickly as my staying in Germany is eating away at my limited funds

I appreciate all the help and advice your giving m
danielrlee1980:

Did the rattle appear at the same time as the error 09 code appeared?Your previous message

Thanks for the info Dan. You certainly know your stuff. I'm in a pretty desperate situation and need all the help I can get. Would it be possible to advise on any possible solution for my situation.

After going up a very bumpy off road track the LCD gave me an error 9 code. After a little research I believe either a connector for the LCD has come away or the controller is fried. After noticing something rattling inside the wheel hub I opened it up but couldn't get to the problem as it was on the difficult to open side because of the magnets. It's now at a bike shop and I'm waiting for a call once they open the magnet side and find out what's rattling around.

The reason I'm asking here is that it's very difficult to communicate in English in Germany and I'm hoping maybe you could offer a solution

Any help is greatly appreciated.
danielrlee1980:

Hi

If your motor contains 3 hall sensors, it is a 'sensored' motor. I can confirm this from the corresponding hall sensor plug in the last photo.

I do not stock any 12-FET 35A sensored controllers, which is what you ideally need.

I do stock a 12-FET 35A sensorless controller however (see below link). This will work with your motor, but does not require hall sensors to operate. Operation will be slightly less efficient than if using a sensored controller and might be slightly hesitative when starting from a standstill, depending on the motor.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273885019355

Please note that the controller linked to is only compatible with 'KT series' LCD displays. If you have any other LCD display, it will not be compatible with this controller.

Regards,

Dan
Your previous message

Thanks for the fact response Dan, I really appreciate it and need it as I'm stuck in Germany.

The wheel is a befang brush less 3 sensor 1500w . I don't know what a BBSHD is so I think it's snub motor as it's built into the wheel. Inside the hubs are coiled wire and a ring of magnets with 3 sensors, which I've alread had to replace in Sweeden. There are 3 fat and I think 3 thin wires.
danielrlee1980:

Hi

A couple of questions for you....

Are you referring to a BBSHD, or is it a 1500W hub motor?

If it is a hub motor, do you know if your motor is sensored, or sensorless? If you do not know, how many wires (fat & thin) does your motor have?

Regards,

Dan
Your previous message

Hello, I'm currently travelling via ebike from Finland to the UK and I'm broken down in Germany. I believe the controller for my befang 1500w brush less motor needs replacing. Do you happen to have one that would be compatible and could you send it out as a priority?

Regards, Henry
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Old 09-03-19, 09:52 AM
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So, correct me if I am wrong here....is this e wheel such that it actually eliminates your ability to pedal?

I note that in a quick search, and in your video I see no cogs.

It would seem to me, that if such is the case, it's rather poor design and planning to go anywhere on a bike that has no backup (manual) propulsion is a risky endeavor outside your known geographical area.

Either way, it would seem that your plans may be irrevocably changed in that either you can't go anywhere, or you may be unable to negotiate the terrain along your chosen route. My thoughts would be to consider the scope and goal of the tour here, see if it's possible say to remove the electronic components and ship them home for weight savings, convert back to pedal power, if possible with a route adjustment reflective of your ability, or...go home before the money runs out.
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Old 09-03-19, 10:14 AM
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Yes the design is not ideal. It does have pedal power and several cogs but such is the weight of the bike it's going to be hard work to pedal the rest of the way with no assist from the electrics on the inclines. You can see the bike in the " Pictures of my ebike" thread. I believe it's the last entry. I just want to search every avenue before giving up as I'm half way there. If I can get a wheel and controller here within a week or so I could continue, but I'm having no luck finding one outside of China.
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Old 09-03-19, 10:23 AM
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I've been doing a day to day brief report with photos and short videos of my trip so far here at

https://henryparsnip.blogspot.com/20...ling-home.html

I've experienced some fantastic moments and met some wonderful people. Maybe you can understand that although things aren't ideal, that I want to fight to keep going and exhaust all options before giving up and returning home via public transport. I have a budget and a deadline withing this budget to ensure I can still do so should all efforts fail.
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Old 09-03-19, 11:03 AM
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Is that a 24" rear wheel?

One option would be to dump most of the electronics, and find a replacement plain wheel. If you can find a stash of used bikes, one might be able to donate one dirt cheap.

I assume the Chinese vendor could overnight the parts, but they'd still have to go through customs. Is there a local warehouse anywhere in the EU?
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Old 09-03-19, 01:37 PM
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A quick guessing based on your video shows this as a recumbent trike, is that right?

Either way...see if the shop can swap you back to a standard pedal power wheel. There are several options for internally geared hubs. I personally used a SRAM that had three internal gears, I know there are others, but the focus on low "gear inches", of course....assuming you have the money to build that option.
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Old 09-05-19, 05:04 AM
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Yes its a recumbent bike, but like I stated earlier it's too heavy to pedal without the electric wheel even stripped down of all nonessential parts. If the worst came to the worst I'd post what I can back to the UK and leave the rest, but still that would be a shame.

So I'm still here staying in this nice German guys shed while I sort this out. Hopefully today I'm going to order this


https://www.ebay.de/itm/392201541796

Which is different to my existing setup of this

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F191969022692

I've been told it will do me if I can't sort out anything else.

My problem is no longer money, though I don't have it to burn I can afford to buy a new set at a pinch. The problem is time. I can't stay in this shed past Friday, tomorrow, so I'll have to organise other accommodation and delivery point and that's going to cost per day, meaning I need something reasonably quickly. I'd really like the same set so that I can have spares and hot swap so if anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate it, failing that I'll buy the one recommended to me and make do.
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Old 09-13-19, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Here's another fellow broken down and stranded in Yurp, https://www.bikeforums.net/electric-...need-help.html Bummer they don't have competent shops over there.
Bummer that English speakers don't put the effort into learning the language of the country they are in! Let us stop pointing fingers and comparing apples with oranges.

How about a smartphone with a local SIM card and using Google Translate? That gets over language differences. Speaking English is not a panacea to solving communication issues, and it never has been. Speak the same language that the locals do - they use Swedish/German/?? every day and not an obscure (to them) seldom used language like Esperanto or English.

I am sure the European bicycle shops have competent bicycle mechanics - who are not necessarily competent in speaking English.
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Old 09-13-19, 05:16 AM
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