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We're going to yell at you.

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

We're going to yell at you.

Old 06-02-06, 05:31 AM
  #76  
DigitalRJH
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Shouldn't this have been posted on the Detroit metro area only BF????

Simple solution, keep your paceline tight enough so no one can sneak in, and if someone hooks onto the back, the last rider simply tells them it's a team training ride, sorry. And all this can be done without the yelling
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Old 06-02-06, 07:21 AM
  #77  
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Wow....

It's the next morning and this thread is still going strong!

OK....
More from me about this now....

"Event" posted later in the thread about being a supportive member here.
I agree.
"Event" has been one of the guys that encouraged me and gave me solid advice about the little racing I do, and for that I say thanks.

He has never struck me as a snob or smart-arse here.....

In his defense on this, I can see his point.
Perhaps most of us have been in a situation like this, only on a smaller (and slower) scale.

What his post is really about is dealing with unwanted riders who attach themselves to you like those little fish that suck onto the shark. I do believe it IS dangerous and it IS rude to do that.

And in Event's case, the danger part is magnified because of the shear speed and numbers involved.
That doesn't make him a snob.

What to take from all of this?
Please, please, please.....no matter if it's one guy going 15 mph or ten guys going 30 mph....if you are out riding and see them, don't just invite yourself in un-announced.

Always say something....
"Mind if I latch on with you....."
"Can I try to jump in....."

Say something. ANYTHING.
You might not get the answer you want, but at least everyone is on the same, safer, page.
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Old 06-02-06, 07:46 AM
  #78  
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If a new guy can stay in fast paceline and mess up your 40 mph sprints you better watch out.He is already better than you are after years of training.
cheers
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Old 06-02-06, 07:48 AM
  #79  
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The amount of time some of you weenies spend wringing your hands over this crap is staggering. And again, nothing personal.

But for crissake already just shut up and ride.

Special note to Event Services: I ALWAYS wear my iPod specifically so I won't have to hear anyone YELLING at me over a BICYCLE RIDE. When Phonak starts paying me $300K annually somebody can do that. Up until then I'm cranking up the tunes. Again, you're welcome to shoot me, but as always, titanium bullets only.
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Old 06-02-06, 07:48 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Hipcycler
Wow....

It's the next morning and this thread is still going strong!

OK....
More from me about this now....

"Event" posted later in the thread about being a supportive member here.
I agree.
"Event" has been one of the guys that encouraged me and gave me solid advice about the little racing I do, and for that I say thanks.

He has never struck me as a snob or smart-arse here.....

In his defense on this, I can see his point.
Perhaps most of us have been in a situation like this, only on a smaller (and slower) scale.

What his post is really about is dealing with unwanted riders who attach themselves to you like those little fish that suck onto the shark. I do believe it IS dangerous and it IS rude to do that.

And in Event's case, the danger part is magnified because of the shear speed and numbers involved.
That doesn't make him a snob.

What to take from all of this?
Please, please, please.....no matter if it's one guy going 15 mph or ten guys going 30 mph....if you are out riding and see them, don't just invite yourself in un-announced.

Always say something....
"Mind if I latch on with you....."
"Can I try to jump in....."

Say something. ANYTHING.
You might not get the answer you want, but at least everyone is on the same, safer, page.
Hey Hip...I think that's what my momma called "good manners" and when I did not exhibit such, usually got smacked....something that I experience less and less every day.
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Old 06-02-06, 07:53 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by SP-rocket
If a new guy can stay in fast paceline and mess up your 40 mph sprints you better watch out.
You're right. It could be a Tri-Guy
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Old 06-02-06, 08:21 AM
  #82  
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I always laugh seeing rec level riders posting in threads like this and using it as justification for riding alone. Ride alone if you want, but until you have been in a double paceline hammering at 99% of max and trying to see the wheel in front of you through your sweat (and the sweat flying off the guys in front of you) dont justify yourself by judging those who have.

As for a grab of the jersey, do some of you folks realize how much contact there is at race pace? A soft touch to the hip to let a guy know that you are passing or next to him (so he doesnt swerve into you) etc. Make you feel alot safer knowing that others are comunicating for mutual safety.

As for yelling, /sigh, I cant hear crap at 20mph much less 30.

I'm not elite, dont race, but ride lots and do it as fast as I can. I have worked VERY hard to be in the shape I am and can't fathom the dedication it takes to be a 1 or 2. That can all be taken away by someones inexperience. Folks like to talk about racers 5k bikes, its more the years of training and last 3 4 or 5 months of pure pain they have gone thru to get in the shape they are in that racers fear losing. They have an INVESTMENT they are trying to protect. We participate in a dangerous sport, they are at the front end of that. I have NEVER met a guy that wouldnt help a noob out when asked, so long as it wasnt while he was training.
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Old 06-02-06, 08:34 AM
  #83  
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Exactly, and If they don't get it, they're not ready, but thats ok too. It's not for everyone.
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Old 06-02-06, 08:49 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by teamawe
As for a grab of the jersey, do some of you folks realize how much contact there is at race pace? A soft touch to the hip to let a guy know that you are passing or next to him (so he doesnt swerve into you) etc. Make you feel alot safer knowing that others are comunicating for mutual safety.
This is an excellent point that some on this thread may not be aware of. There's all kinds of bumping and touching going on in a fast paceline (let alone in a race). It's not water polo, but it's not tiddlywinks, either.

As for the yelling that has everyone so concerned, everyone yells at race pace. You yell at both teammates and opponents, both squirrels and steady wheels alike. It's tough to be heard. There's a lot of wind noise, noise from the bikes, noise from everyone breathing hard. Also, try to "speak" when you're anerobic. It's not easy. Barking is about the best I can manage. Eloquence is out the window pretty quickly.

Want to decide if someone is an elitist or a jackass? Those determinations are best made in the parking lot before and after the ride or race, not during the event when everyone is at their limits both physically and mentally. And, of course, the worst possible place for assessing someone's true character is in an anonymous on-line forum, based your own interpretation of what they wrote in a post....
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Old 06-02-06, 08:53 AM
  #85  
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^ Solid! The Octopus Gets it.
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Old 06-02-06, 08:54 AM
  #86  
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>>its more the years of training and last 3 4 or 5 months of pure pain they have gone thru to get in the shape they are in that racers fear losing<<

I'm trying to understand how a newbie on the training ride constitutes a seroius threat in this area, but it's not happening. Sorry. And I've been on those rides for 17 years now. I've been the droppee AND the dropper more times than I can count. I've ridden with Cat 5's, 4's, 3's, 2's, 1's and pros. And hung with most of them.

It would appear the Road Nazis trump the Freds for The Most Unfathomable Mentality Award. With some of the racing dudes it would appear to be pure ego/elitism. But I do understand that. I know a thing or two about the suffering it takes to get fast. It never led me to the delusional histrionics I've witnessed on this particular thread, but I do get the motivation. I may not see things that way, but I know where they're coming from. Better them than me.

Remember, if you're yelling at me I will see your lips moving, but only hear the Foo Fighters.
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Old 06-02-06, 08:59 AM
  #87  
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The whole point is its not a personal attack. The discourse Event describes is how the sport has been for longer than any of us has been around.

IMO the so called elitist "road nazi" attitude many here seem so offended by stems from 2 things:

1. Safety, im not gonna beat that dead horse any more than it already has been.
2. Hot Shot of the Month. In 20+ years of racing how many riders do you suppose we've seen who were gonna be the next LeMond or Armstrong? Here this year talking smack, gone the next (typically after they realize how much hard work is really involved). So after breaking in the latest in a long endless line of rookies excuse us when we become a little more blunt. Again nothing personal, just human nature. Those who can rise above this go into coaching or lead "B" rides, although the best coach I ever had was very blunt and short. Again it wasn't a personal attack and I learned how to race a bike.
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Old 06-02-06, 09:05 AM
  #88  
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Did someone say Nazi?

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Old 06-02-06, 09:06 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by patentcad
>>its more the years of training and last 3 4 or 5 months of pure pain they have gone thru to get in the shape they are in that racers fear losing<<

I'm trying to understand how a newbie on the training ride constitutes a seroius threat in this area, but it's not happening. Sorry. And I've been on those rides for 17 years now. I've been the droppee AND the dropper more times than I can count. I've ridden with Cat 5's, 4's, 3's, 2's, 1's and pros. And hung with most of them.

It would appear the Road Nazis trump the Freds for The Most Unfathomable Mentality Award. With some of the racing dudes it would appear to be pure ego/elitism. But I do understand that. I know a thing or two about the suffering it takes to get fast. It never led me to the delusional histrionics I've witnessed on this particular thread, but I do get the motivation. I may not see things that way, but I know where they're coming from. Better them than me.

Remember, if you're yelling at me I will see your lips moving, but only hear the Foo Fighters.
Your name calling, the 3x espousing your years of experience coupled with your 2x stating you wear headphones while pace-lining (/BOGGLE) strike me as the most self-righteous as any who have posted in this thread. All done while attempting to belittle those of us who grasp the OP's point. Good job!
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Old 06-02-06, 09:13 AM
  #90  
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What is delusional about the fact that in a race pace training ride comprised mainly of bike racers, that some folks aren't at the level they think they are, need help, or critisicsm and are at best an inconvenience and at worst a danger to others.

To all those who say they won't listen etc..have you been yelled at before for screwing up? big deal, dont take it personally
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Old 06-02-06, 09:15 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by SP-rocket
If a new guy can stay in fast paceline and mess up your 40 mph sprints you better watch out.He is already better than you are after years of training.
cheers
Then we would wecome him, another motor is always welcome, and yell at him if he did something stupid. And if he kept doing the same stupid stuff over and over would ask him to ride somewhere else.

Look, its not about protecting some little corner of turf. Or about who is faster, there are races for that. Its about the fact that there is one right way to ride fast as a group. The beauty in this is that It's the same everywhere on this planet! How non-elitist is that? I've had experienced Aussie riders, Germans, Kiwis, and other who also didn't speak a word of english jump into a fast training ride and guess what? We all ride the same, wow. And guess what? If i did somethng stupid they would likely yell.

Last edited by Voodoo76; 06-02-06 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 06-02-06, 09:18 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by teamawe
I always laugh seeing rec level riders posting in threads like this and using it as justification for riding alone. Ride alone if you want, but until you have been in a double paceline hammering at 99% of max and trying to see the wheel in front of you through your sweat (and the sweat flying off the guys in front of you) dont justify yourself by judging those who have.
You do realize this is the Road Cycling main forum, not the Road Bike Racing subforum, right?
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Old 06-02-06, 09:19 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Smoothie104
What is delusional about the fact that in a race pace training ride comprised mainly of bike racers, that some folks aren't at the level they think they are, need help, or critisicsm and are at best an inconvenience and at worst a danger to others.

I like it when someone tells me that I'm messing things up. It's kinda like when your fly is open or you've got a Stallone hanging out of your nose and no one tells you, then you've gone through the whole day with the barn door open or a third arm growing from a nostril.
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Old 06-02-06, 09:23 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76
Then we would wecome him, another motor is always welcome, and yell at him if he did something stupid. And if he kept doing the same stupid stuff over and over would ask him to ride elsewhere.

Look, its not about protecting some little corner of turf. Or about who is faster, there are races for that. Its about the fact that there is one right way to ride fast as a group. The beauty in this is that It's the same everywhere on this planet! How non-elitist is that? I've had experienced Aussie riders, Germans, Kiwis, and other who also didn't speak a word of english jump into a fast training ride and guess what? We all ride the same, wow. And guess what? If i did somethng stupid they would likely yell.


Beautifully said, you would think that this post would end it, but someone who isnt at that level yet will feel hurt and find something to complain about before this thread is finished. Despite the fact that your post didn't call anyone out.


If a non personal post makes you feel as if you;ve been attacked, maybe the problem IS you. Maybe you are squirrelly, lol
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Old 06-02-06, 09:23 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by teamawe

I'm not elite, dont race, but ride lots and do it as fast as I can. I have worked VERY hard to be in the shape I am and can't fathom the dedication it takes to be a 1 or 2. That can all be taken away by someones inexperience. Folks like to talk about racers 5k bikes, its more the years of training and last 3 4 or 5 months of pure pain they have gone thru to get in the shape they are in that racers fear losing. They have an INVESTMENT they are trying to protect. We participate in a dangerous sport, they are at the front end of that. I have NEVER met a guy that wouldnt help a noob out when asked, so long as it wasnt while he was training.
You've hit the nail on the head here. I think many of the people who have been harping on Event Services are taking issue with the exclusionary nature of his "rules". The problem lies in the fact that cycling is so many different things to so many different people. Some people ride for competition, some ride for transportation, but most ride to stay in varying degrees of shape. There's a place in cycling for everyone, and with that being said, there are some guys who are simply much better at riding a bike than the next guy, and it's perfectly normal for them to expect to ride with people of the same skill level. It ain't nothing against you as a person, but I'd rather not have to be driven home with a broken bone or road rash up and down my body.

I take bike-riding and racing seriously, and every single time I line up to start in a race, I'm wondering if the guy next to me will be the jerky rider who can't hold his line and knocks me down in a corner. Of course, it's the nature of the sport, but is it really so wrong to want to minimize the risks? I've spent a weekend in a hospital due to a rider who couldn't hold his line. I hold no grudge against the guy (hell, I can't even remember what he looked like), but that doesn't mean I want to have a repeat performance.

In my admittedly short bike-racing experience, I've encountered plenty of those weekend warriors who may have a good amount of steam in the legs, but are lacking in all the other skills which are necessary when riding at full-clip with other cyclists. Sure, I make mistakes once in a while and been yelled at, but I've learned from them, and become a better rider because of my desire to not pissing off a bunch of fellow riders.
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Old 06-02-06, 09:30 AM
  #96  
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The Doctor gets it, and these are not Event's "Rules" these rules have been around a long time, made and practiced by those long before us. What makes you think you know how to ride fast in a group better? Because you have an expensive bike? Because you ride a lot and watch the Tour?


Note: snide comment above directed to no one in particular
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Old 06-02-06, 09:33 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by teamawe
Your name calling, the 3x espousing your years of experience coupled with your 2x stating you wear headphones while pace-lining (/BOGGLE) strike me as the most self-righteous as any who have posted in this thread. All done while attempting to belittle those of us who grasp the OP's point. Good job!
But the OP didn't HAVE a point. Not really. And if you think he did - hey, it's your life, but I'd focus on things that matter. Speaking of which WHAT AM I doing on this board again? Forgive me, that won't happen again soon.
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Old 06-02-06, 09:36 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by mirona
You do realize this is the Road Cycling main forum, not the Road Bike Racing subforum, right?
Yes, and thank you for magnifying my point. If you are a rec rider and there is a fast paceline thread, why are you posting in it? As pointed out in my previous post, I have never raced a road bike, but I paceline, thus forum posting practicality assesment was positive. =)
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Old 06-02-06, 09:38 AM
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I have added "elitist" to my title..and updated my signature due to patentcads advice
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"You should already be aware that riding with people who steer with their elbows, stick food to the top tube of their frames and ride around in dick togs is not a great idea." -- Classic1
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Old 06-02-06, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Smoothie104
I have added "elitist" to my title..and updated my signature due to patentcads advice
Your posts say it for you. Why waste the pixels?
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