Drew Eckhardt 

My right knee started acting up so I caved and got a fit when minor height increases didn't help. While a huge improvement which accommodates 19 years of declining flexibility, is this sensible?


Some how I sunk my saddle a little over an inch over the last few years starting around Lemond's .883 x inseam length (30" pants leg, 32" cycling inseam last I checked, 81cm suggesting 72cm high) and needed to rotate from flat to nose up to stay comfortable. This has me an inch higher than that (74.3) which seems high but felt OK on a short 20 mile ride.

The platform I rode on rotated for different camera angles and presumably contributed to a noticeable wobble I don't have on solid ground.

Carbonfiberboy 

I'm assuming the left panel is the new fit. Obviously your saddle height on the left is better. Way too much knee bend in the right panel. Your upper body fit is what looks odd to me in both panels. In both panels, the angle at which your lower back exits the pelvic area seems the same. In the left panel, the fitter seems to have forced you to straighten your back by simply pushing your shoulders back by shortening and raising your stem.

One odd thing is that in the right panel you seem to make no attempt in the video to straighten your back, while in the left panel you consciously do so in this very short shot. What's that about? You're a long way from being a graybeard and yet I can almost touch my nose to my knees at 70. 19 years? Pshaw. It is as nothing. It smells of spending money on the lighter bike rather than doing the training: a mechanical fix rather than a physical one. The physical fix is always better as long as it's not a medical problem. Is it?

Another odd thing is that the fitter has moved your hands closer and also stood you up so that your upper arm no longer makes a 90° angle with your torso. IME that's never as comfortable.

A good thing is that in the left panel you now have a slight bend in your elbow rather than being stiff-armed, which is never good. But why not just straighten your back and bend your elbow in the right panel?

The saddle raise looks good. I'd probably replace the quill stem with an adapter as I assume has been done in the left panel. But then I'd probably slam the stem, maybe take 1 or 2 cm. off it, and see what your knee/elbow clearance looks like with horizontal forearms and a straight back. If that looked too stressed, maybe bring the stem up 1 or 2 cm. If that didn't work, I'd send you home to stretch and work out for a couple of months, then try it again. Yeah, I am a hardass crazy person, but it's served me well.

Igualmente

That's quite a change. Are you saying there was a 2" saddle height change from where you've been riding lately?

I think you'll obviously have to try it out more to really know. I would try it out for a while, but a couple of things that strike me are that your higher saddle height in the left panel seems to cause a substantial change in ankle angle (and more upper body rotation), and that the upper body on the left is better but I almost think of it as too upright. So I wonder if the saddle height on the left is a tad too high and you are using your ankles and hip rocking to reach the pedal (of course, you may adapt after a bit). At least your arm seems to have more bend and you seem to be reaching less in the panel on the left, but I think it is almost too upright.

Dave Cutter

I am no expert (even by Internet standards)... but the image on the left (new settings?) shows some saddle rocking and a downwardly pointed toe (see image below).

I highlighted (under) the shoe to show the angle I am referring to. That looks to me as if you are (in combination will the rocking) over extending. The image on the right show a natural flat foot at the bottom of the crank.... but with too much bend at the knee. (image below)

I would think.... just my own wild-ass guess... that the goldilocks position is somewhere in the middle.

Although... you might need a little minor adjustment to this fit I think you did good getting the fit. Often times... we fit our bikes and then over a long period (even years) make minor "adjustments"... until the bike is no longer a good fit. It makes good sense to from time-to-time... start with the cleats and re-fit the entire bike. And then... re-think riding posture at the same time.

I have/keep the bike/fit measurements written on a fit chart myself. So returning any bike to the original/current/best fit is easy. But I may do a complete re-fit on myself with one of my bikes just to see if any changes might be needed or feel better. Thanks for sharing your video.

Drew Eckhardt 

Yes.

I'm also an inch higher at 74.3cm than I've been intentionally setup around 71.8 cm from LeMond's .883 x cycling inseam number at 32".

While LeMond's number is not gospel, it seems like people end up within +/- 1cm.

My concern is something which feels OK but doesn't show up until later, like my anterior knee pain.

It feels OK after 165 miles on it (20 + 25 + 70 + 25 + 25) apart from excessive fatigue in my calf muscles, although I don't know if that's a fit thing or trying to pedal less toes-down which I was advised to do in my fit session and seemed to work on video.

OTOH,I now have a history of being not very observant on fit issues.

I agree. There's a little wobble in the rotating platform I'm on which confuses things and I thought looked the same in the before and after, although looking closer the hip spot is definitely moving up and down more in the after fit image from reaching.

How much is a tad?

I probably need to put my trainer setup, monitor, camera, and tripod in my living room and see what's going on.

Presumably I'd drop the bars as far as the saddle because I don't want even less reach+drop, and move the saddle back 30% of that distance (cos 73 degree seat tube angle) to preserve my fore-aft relationship with my bottom bracket.

I was as comfortable with a 110mm stem as the 100mm I ended up with, so that amount of extra reach should do me good.

Probably.

I was no longer getting low with my old setup because I'd angled my saddle slightly nose up because for some reason I started sliding down the back, and that limited how much forward rotation was comfortable. Swapping my old Selle Italia Turbomatic for a Specialized Toupe Plus which is flatter with a cut-out eliminated that problem; although as far as I can tell my fitter decided on that up-right.

The balance there is I need to be comfortable for 200 miles+ which could be rather different than what works for a few hours.

Igualmente

That made me laugh (not sarcastically either). I'm far from being a graybeard too... and yet, I haven't been able to get my nose close to my knees since before I was a teenager. At least I can still see my knees!

Igualmente

That is a very understandable concern for that kind of distance. Of course, raising the saddle is the starting point for anterior knee pain, so the direction of change was likely good. My tendency would be to say it has gone a little too high, but I'm neither an expert nor is internet diagnosis ideal. I agree that if you drop the saddle, the bars should at least come down the equivalent amount and the saddle setback should be adjusted to compensate.

Carbonfiberboy 

Randoing? One of the show-stopping unforeseen problems is Shermer's neck. There is a position element: decrease the angle between the upper back and neck. Your new position helps with that. If you could work on further reducing the rounding in your upper back, that would help, too. Drop your shoulder blades down your back. Imagine a helium balloon attached to the back of your helmet, lifting your head and moving it back. Neck and dumbell exercises are also helpful. You might try that if you ever get a sore neck.

Many successful rando riders have their bars level with their saddle. Of course the fast boys use a slammed stem, but they're fast.

Drew Eckhardt 

Yes, although with more long solo rides and fewer brevets. I like starting rides at my front door within an hour of waking that go where ever I want and can be rescheduled for an earlier (because the weather is great) or later (because something came up like an urgent fit change) date.

I'll definitely do that.

As a merely not slow rider I won't try to emulate them.

jyl

It looks to me like the fit moved your saddle up (and back), then moved your bars up and back, and used compact bars to move your hoods even further up and back.

The saddle raise looks, maybe, a bit too far. Your toe dip seems a little more in the "after" video. If your hips are rocking (which I usually need to see from the rear), that's also a sign of a saddle too high. I suggest filming yourself from the rear to check for hip rock. If yes, lower saddle 1/4" at a time. If no, leave saddle height alone unless and until longer rides disclose a problem.

The changes in the stem, bar, and hoods might be good or bad, depending on your type of riding. For long slow distance, whatever's comfortable is good. For speed, lower is good.

Personally, I like the combination of a relatively high bar and hoods up high on the bar, with a deep drop bar. That way you can cruise in an upright position, or hammer in a low position. And, again personally, I hate the look of adjustable stems and compact drop bars. But I don't think there is an absolute "right" position.

The other thought I have is about your saddle to hoods reach. In the "before" video your back is hunched, your arms are fully straight, and the angle between your arms and your torso is slightly greater than 90 degrees. In the "after" video your back is straight, your arms are slightly flexed, and the angle is 90 degrees. The latter describes a more comfortable position, I think. But I'm curious why your back is hunched before and straight after. Were you coached to straighten out your back during the fitting?. When you straightened your back with the before setup, did your arms and angle look more like the after video?