pierrej

This is pretty much what I've been doing, once I'm no longer accelerating I'll slowly tuck up. I've seen the Brits rolling their wrists inwards towards the end of times efforts so it got me thinking.

The team GB position seems moderately upright with the elbows tucked compared to what some of our (Aus) riders seem to do.

Skinner would be a better comparison as he is closer in size to glaetzer, larger than Kenny.



Was curious as to what people thought would be the position with the most benefit, either being slightly more upright and narrower, or quite a low and wide position in reducing frontal area?

JimiMimni

When I'm writing my own training, I spend a lot of time following QP's "inverse" approach. My coach has a bit of a mixed approach. One block is traditional mileage, the next has more threshold, and I assume there will be a fair bit of VO2max work in the next month. That's all coupled with some MTB rides, and lots of weightlifting.

It's super important to get lots of hard efforts in during the off season. When you aren't racing, you can really bury yourself in fatigue, and actually get faster.

taras0000

I'd like to know how aero it is going that low. My guess is that once the chest/stomach are below horizontal, you start to produce more drag. You almost never see an aero position go that low, at least not now with wind tunnel testing readily available.

pierrej

Bos and Buchli have reasonably similar positions as they're similarly built guys. I'm about the same size as them/glaetzer so figure if it works for them it may probably work for me.

pierrej

That's what I'm curious about, but I also figure that the national team wouldn't do it if it didn't work, as both the men and women seem to have the same kind of position

queerpunk

Glaetzer's position is crazy - I love it. With him, for whatever reason, it looks natural and not strained. Something about how he rides makes him particularly look like an animal, a predator, something big and feline and scary.

The thing about what works for pros - especially sprinters - is that they have go with what feels right. It's sort of a vague item that aligns with them needing a position in which they can put out maximum power. It might not be "optimized" for w/cda, but then again an "optimized" position might fail to take into account other sub-optimal conditions.

Frequently, I think it's not a great idea to look at the pros for too much inspiration. They're freaks. We're mortals. And they don't always follow or trust science.

carleton

Glaetzer: 6ft 3in (190cm), CHIN ON DA STEM:




I find it hard to believe that he's pedaling "full circles". I'd imagine that his hips are so closed that his hip flexors are completely shut off. At that point, it's simply HULK MASH.

carleton

Yeah, I'd like to second that. John McEnroe's forehand is a great example. One of the greatest players ever had the worst forehand. He obviously won with it, but if a new player showed up to a coaching session with that exact same stroke, they'd be coached off of it immediately. What should the player do? That's up for debate. Wins tend to shut every nay-sayer up.

queerpunk

Dizzy Gillespie, one of the best trumpeters ever, had epically bad embouchure. Experts are quite often freaks. For good info about things like form, and training, don't look to naturals. Look to the people who have had to meticulously slowly steadily piece by piece improve everywhere.

pierrej

I might see if I can get ahold of one of the coaches or maybe one of the sports scientists next time I'm around the HPU. Glaetzer won't be back here for a little while so it might be a little harder to get his opinion of it.

It does look most cool though

taras0000

Ribbed seatposts? For pleasure or aero?

Godsight

Maybe the the ribs are set 1cm apart or less and the seatpost wedge in the frame actually lock into those ribs with custom seatpost made for each athlete so one of the ribs is at the proper seat height for the respective athlete. Could even have different seatpost for the kilo that is ribbed appropriately. I am just guessing a reasoning of it.

carleton

That'd be my guess, too.

I always wondered if the BT Edge and Ultra had seatpost issues under bigger riders.

The top of that post has silver bits which is different from the normal seatpost.

carleton

BTW, this pic illustrates how low he gets compared to others:

taras0000

I like the idea, sort of like an adjustable height drop hitch.


If it were custom, or even just S,M,L,XL sizes, you would only have to rib the bottom portion that makes contact with the wedge bolts. Maybe to smooth dirty airflow around the seat post? Sort of like a rear diffuser on a sports car.

carleton

OK. Found a good pic of the post:



Jeez. That's an entirely new saddle from scratch!!

taras0000

I don't know if you guys remember Mark French from Aus. He had the largest saddle to bar drop that I've ever seen barring Ondrej Sosenka or Theo Bos, and those guys are quite tall.
https://www.gettyimages.ca/event/worl...ture-id2007080

queerpunk

dafuq!

pierrej

Post isn't the standard BT part either and the ribs are there for aero reasons. One of the guys in my cycling club is a sports engineer and we were talking about the seats over coffee. Best I could describe them as they're a little like pivotal seats and posts underneath from bmx if anyone is familiar with them, and I believe the tops are printed.
In theory they shouldn't be able to tilt under load but I'll see if I can find out any more info about them.

Edit: engineer for our state squad, but the national team overlaps in areas here because the national team is based here.

carleton

Yeah, that position is pretty deep.

I know, right? This has been around since before the Olympics and I wonder if anyone noticed.

Wow. I've never heard of the Pivotal system.




According to Dan's Comp (a top BMX parts website):

I could totally see that going main stream for cycling. Or simply make it an option.

pierrej

Maybe for the track where comfort isn't a high priority, but rails probably won't be getting replaced any time soon on the road.

Godsight

Dirt jumper and some downhill rider use that system. It is useful when the saddle is tilted backward to have more space to put your hips on top of the rear wheel axle or even behind it during jumps, drops and steep sections.

I would assume they are more like the Selle Italia monolink system or like SDG I-Beam system where micro-adjustment of the saddle angle is still possible but a stronger mono rail to handle better the impact (in case of the SDG I-beam system) compared to a standard railed saddle. But looking again at the picture, it looks like the saddle can pivot on the forward bolt and rear bolt fix the angle of saddle and would have the advantage of always keeping the saddle exactly at the UCI saddle setback limit or at the proper setback specific to each rider.

pierrej

A quick look suggests our pursuit teams ran them at Rio so it looks to be more than just a sprint thing

carleton

I personally think that track equipment should continue to diverge from being hand-me-down from Road or Triathlon Time Trial equipment.

Areas where it has already happened:
- Frames (they are no longer the same geometry)
- Handlebars
- Shoes
- Wheels
- Gloves
- Cranks
- Chainrings/Cogs
- Tires
- Hubs

Areas where that can happen:

- Saddles
- Pedals (how many hacks to attach straps are there now?)
- Skinsuits
- Helmets
- Seatposts
- Aerobars
- Tires
- Shoes
- Gloves
- Power Meters
- Cycling Head Units
- Power file analysis software
- Hubs


Track racing is evolving into a similar but different sport. There are LOTS of opportunities for innovation.

carleton

Get this, every Olympics we see a big team make a tweak of something on that list above.

Imagine if a company or two focused time, money, and resources towards doing those things for more than just one team? Sounds crazy but 3T did it with the Scatto bars. CASCO with the WARP helmet. SRM did it with power meter cranks....and all of those are staples of the sport right now.