dz_nuzz

@himespau That is true. Although on a somewhat related note my first race ever was a Cross race. Lets just say it didn't go well between my equipment falling apart and having zero idea how a cross race started. If someone wants to race road and get better at it, Cross does not necessarily do that. If Radish just wants to have a race experience, well that is a different question.
@mike868y Racing bikes is indeed fun. But so is just riding through the fall foliage, doing long rides and eating scones. I want to use whatever remains before New England winter to do all the fun riding I can.

himespau 

Yeah, that was my thought. Not to make him better at road racing, but to break this inertia that seems to come before the the first race and get the momentum rolling forward.

topflightpro

Cross is huge here too, but I just can't get into it. I've done several races, but it's just not for me. Mostly, I just don't feel like racing at this point in the year. I'm tired of traveling to races.

grolby

Haha, I saw @mattm's post and thought about it for a second, but I was like "nah."

I really just depends on what your approach to 'cross is. If you're trying to be good at cyclocross and race as well as possible in that discipline, it's unlikely to help you on the road because the level of commitment required really necessitates diverting some time, energy and attention that you might otherwise spend on road racing. If you're just doing 'cross for fun, it gives you another way to enjoy riding your bike during the offseason when you might otherwise be just sitting on your butt and eating pumpkin pie. And that could help you in your road season just by keeping you mentally fresh and helping you reset.

As for handling skills, 'cross skills don't necessarily transfer directly to road in that negotiating an off-camber turn doesn't have much in common with picking the right line in a fast corner in a crit. But I do think it helps build a better sense of and connection to what the bike is doing and how it reacts to what you do with your body. Sort of bike control kinesthesia, if you will. And sometimes there is more direct transference. What I do in picking a line and setting up a turn on a paved road course isn't that different from how I go through a fast grassy corner on a 'cross track. And one of the really nice things in cyclocross versus road is you really do get to choose the exact line you want much of the time instead of having it dictated by having bodies on all sides. So you get to work on solo cornering in a way you seldom get to on the road unless you're OTF by yourself. And that's not when you want to be figuring it out.

grolby

Also, I didn't respond because I don't think everyone is obligated to feel the same way I do about cylocross. It's not for everyone. It's silly to denigrate it just because you're not into it, or to assume that your lack of success in the discipline is because of some kind of inherent flaw in the sport, but whatever. Besides, bashing 'cross is sort of a standard @mattm joke, I don't need to rise to the bait every time .

Basically if the OP is intrigued by cyclocross, and it's a way to actually toe the line in a bike race sooner rather than later, I say that's every reason to go for it. A smart trainer, on the other hand, is going to add very little value on top of an existing fluid trainer and power meter.

TheKillerPenguin

Racing cross is just another way of saying "I like beer"

hubcyclist

I don't like beer, does that mean cross isn't for me? lol

tommyrod74

I tell my athletes they have to decide: do they want to improve year upon year as a road/MTB racer, or improve year upon year as a CX racer?

The third option (one I try very hard to steer them away from) is to be kinda OK at both, and risk burnout at multiple points during the year due to basically racing year-round.

The biggest issue for a road racer doing a full CX season is time. Driving 90 minutes+ each way, both days of the weekend, for a total of (maybe) 2 hours of race time, during the only time of the week that most people can do any long rides?

I see it every year on the MTB side - guys (and girls) want to keep racing in the fall, they start CX, get really into it, and end up doing the whole season.

They are flying in March (compared to the other XC racers in category) and by May do not want to look at a bike anymore, much less ride one.

No base period + constant racing for a full year = stagnation and burnout.

That said, I'd do a couple a season for fun and a hard workout - but having gotten to Cat 1, I can't exactly half-ass a CX race and hang in the way I'd like. Plus, callups are based on series points - so a back row start if you don;t do every race, basically.

As much as I'd like to say I don't care that I don't get to see the front of the race, I do care, and therefore won't half-ass it. Most of my athletes are similarly wired.

If you can really treat it as fun, and just want some race time under your belt, go for it. Having a CX bike also opens the possibilities for gravel racing, riding in weather that wouldn;t be ideal for a traditional road bike, etc.

superdex

I say CX bike. Mostly because it'll pop your race cherry. There are little things like getting lost on the way to the event, forgetting your helmet, warmup snafus and other fun things you need to get through. Go race CX to get that experience, and the pavement stuff in the spring won't be so intimidating...

himespau 

Thank you. This is exactly what I wanted to say, but was afraid someone would take the wording wrong and get upset with me.

caloso

I say get a CX bike. It can also be your rain bike with set of road tires and fenders.

mattm

Fwiw, my whole annoyance with cx is not the fact that you do it. It's that former team mates would do it, then be too tired to actually train during the winter, then be too sucky to do well in road racing that they supposedly wanted to do well at.

This is kinda my point; if it doesn't help.. and it's taking away from time you could be training for road... it seems like it would be tough to actually do well at both cx and road. Some pro guys do cx & road well, but i feel like they could take on marathons on top of everything else and still kick ass. Mere mortals need to focus.

But have at it! Unless you're my team mate.

Ygduf

Don't believe they were actually too tired. Those guys were just lazy and not committed to road. I know plenty of people who race CX and road and are pretty good at both.

Friend last weekend who had to give up cross from carpal tunnel was telling me how his road season was not the same because he didn't get the training from CX that he had been getting.

globecanvas

I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to try cross racing as a way to improve road racing fitness. It's almost like taking up swimming to improve running fitness, or whatever. Sure, it makes you fitter than if you didn't do it, but it's not nearly as specifically useful as just training for your target discipline is.

What does make sense is to try cross racing to see if you enjoy cross racing.

globecanvas

I wish I was better at cross racing tbh. I'm good with the Z5+ efforts but I need time in Z3- to recover, and my experience racing cross is that you don't really get any recovery time. The power distribution is like ..||. rather than |...| and I'm just not very good at that.

tommyrod74

I'd take the opposite view, from my personal experience and that of coached athletes.

The guys who are pretty good at both (and I know a lot as well) would almost certainly be better at one or the other if they focused. The guys you refer to likely have good genetics (especially for recovery) and are likely very good athletes in general. It's not likely that you can generalize their abilities to the population as a whole.

Almost every Cat 1 CX racer around here now specializes in CX (and dabbles in road or MTB at most); if they didn't, they'd be unable to improve year after year. They set up their training season accordingly.

Your friend who said his road season wasn't the same after no CX is a better potential example of someone who lacks commitment; CX provides no specific intensity applicable to road or crit racing that isn't better accomplished via targeted, solo workouts. It's just easier mentally to push yourself in a race environment.

tommyrod74

I tell athletes to consider CX to be a separate sport unto itself, with some (but by no means total) crossover with road racing. Different power profile required, different handling and technical skillsets, and more advantage to > w/kg (similar to XC racing).

alathIN

If you're a competitive podium dweller type or aspire to be, listen to the coaches above.

If you're a fitness/participation/variety person like me, get whichever one you will use the most consistently.

grolby

I never took it personally, just figured it was something you liked to troll about .

From my observations on the road + CX thing, it IS possible to be good at both, but it's really not possible to be good for a full season of both. You can focus on road and cut off your 'cross season early to reset and prep for the next road season, or you can focus on 'cross and cut off your road season early to prep for that. You can reasonably argue that in order to reach your absolute potential in either requires all but eliminating the other except as a training tool, but there are plenty of people who perform pretty well in both.

Ygduf

blah blah everyone is better with specificity..

My primary point was, knowing the guys being referenced, the reason they weren't good at road was because they didn't want to work hard at being good at anything. They are the "cross is for fun" type as well, so it was fine to not train and just show up and ride bikes. Not result-oriented.

tommyrod74

Oh, so you know the guys mattm was referring to. My mistake. I do think my point still stands WRT most racers.

For the record, it's my opinion that it's not so much specificity that's the issue as the fact that it's impossible to race year-round without a significant break. Everyone I've seen try it either 1) keeps it up but stops improving or goes backwards, 2) takes a forced break from illness/burnout/overtaining/etc, or 3) quits the sport entirely.

shovelhd

You can also race on the trainer.

hubcyclist

Which, in my case, is just ride really hard and finish off the back, just like in real life!

funbikerchick

With a smart trainer Zwift will control the resistance to the back wheel. I find that makes my riding on the trainer more fun and also more productive. With a dumb trainer, I pretty much just picked a gear and stayed in it. I got plenty of aerobic exercise, but I wasn't really getting any better on the bike. With the smart trainer, I do. So, yes, you can hook up a dumb trainer to Zwift, but the experience is completely different, in my opinion.

Now, for the OP, as to which to buy... which would you prefer? That is what you should do. Do you get out much in the winter? If not, I think you will love Zwift on a smart trainer.

Radish_legs

well crap, the fall weeknight series CX in Dallas has been canceled for 2016. Only 1 other series, kinda far, and on a night I have an ongoing conflict. That makes the decision easier.