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Old 05-06-15, 02:58 AM
  #2326  
Banchad
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Originally Posted by gtrob
I started leaving straps on my pedals this season for all training (4/week) and some people think its just so you don't pull our of your pedals. To be honest I don't think I could pull out without twisting my foot, even on a standing start, without the straps. What I like about the straps is during sprint efforts at very high cadence, or jumping hard midbank, you feel very attached to the bike. Its like wearing a good tight fitting shoe, there is a lot more confidence and less movement at high cadence/power.

Thats all though. When Im just rolling around or doing pacelines or slower efforts, I dont even tighten them down. A good set of look/shimano/whatever cleats is all you ever need.
Which ones do you use?
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Old 05-06-15, 03:35 AM
  #2327  
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Originally Posted by Banchad
How much of a/what difference do thinner/narrower handlebars make?
A few years ago, the road standard was 44cm wide...even for smaller riders. This helped with climbing as well as what I call "roadie sprinting" where they wave the bike from side to side. Actually, it encourages that type of sprinting.

If you did that kind of sprinting on the track, you'd make a mess as everything happens in tight quarters. So, with that being the case, narrow bars 38cm or less make it easy to ride in close proximity to other racers without fear of having your handlebars bumped. The first contact is usually the shoulder or elbow.

There are also some (minor) aero benefits. I don't think anyone has ever put on narrow bars and shaved off crazy amounts off of their times. But, less body in the wind is less. So, there are benefits.

Standing starts can feel awkward on super narrow bars (33cm and the like). But, you get used to it after a few sessions.

40cm used to be the track standard back in like 2010 and earlier. Now it's 37cm (or less) for big guys and lower for ladies, smaller riders, and juniors.

Everybody thinks it's weird and assume they won't like it...then they try it and don't go back. I can't recall the last time I've seen 44cm bars on the track. Even roadies and Madison riders will use narrow junior road bars on the track.
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Old 05-06-15, 03:44 AM
  #2328  
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Originally Posted by carleton
Everybody thinks it's weird and assume they won't like it...then they try it and don't go back. I can't recall the last time I've seen 44cm bars on the track.
I use a 42cm wide Deda Pista. Any suggestions of some thinner bars? Might as well give them a go.
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Old 05-06-15, 05:10 AM
  #2329  
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I'm a bit old school and still think the width of your bars should be based on your shoulder width. I rode 42 & 44cm bars on the track last year and my bars pretty much looked normal, but I didn't go around measuring other guys bars. Based on recommendations from this board, I've put on 40cm bars, but I also put 42cm bars on my road bike to get used to the narrowness. At T-Town I noticed a few guys with the 37s, but it seemed that it was mostly guys with Fujis for which they were standard equipment. I don't recall seeing anything narrow at Kissena this Spring, so it might be track dependent as to what has become the standard. Of course my observations are from the Sr 3-4 & Masters ranks, so maybe the pros & elites all have 37 or smaller bars.
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Old 05-06-15, 08:03 AM
  #2330  
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Originally Posted by carleton
There are also some (minor) aero benefits. I don't think anyone has ever put on narrow bars and shaved off crazy amounts off of their times. But, less body in the wind is less. So, there are benefits.
very little data here other than the graphic but




I think this is a very overlooked part in getting aero. Id love to seem some hard data and going right down to a 37 scattos compared to a big wide traditional track bar.
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Old 05-06-15, 08:32 AM
  #2331  
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Originally Posted by gtrob
very little data here other than the graphic but




I think this is a very overlooked part in getting aero. Id love to seem some hard data and going right down to a 37 scattos compared to a big wide traditional track bar.
Those savings seem to be rather large dont they? 10/15W off a handlebar shape design? Or am I being pessimistic?
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Old 05-06-15, 08:46 AM
  #2332  
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My guess is the rider is pretty upright and the extra few CM of having his arms/elbows out is catching a lot of air. I bet the bar itself is only worth a couple of W (Cervelo's new aero bar claims a grand 4.4w). But its the position it puts you in that is the savings.
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Old 05-06-15, 08:59 AM
  #2333  
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Originally Posted by gtrob
My guess is the rider is pretty upright and the extra few CM of having his arms/elbows out is catching a lot of air. I bet the bar itself is only worth a couple of W (Cervelo's new aero bar claims a grand 4.4w). But its the position it puts you in that is the savings.
Yup.
I mean, if you consider your arms wide as outside of the rest of your body's frontal footprint, and your arms narrow as being within the frontal area of your hips and torso, you're removing a pretty substantial bit of frontal area by going narrower.
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Old 05-06-15, 09:46 AM
  #2334  
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Banchad, narrow bars are part of the fine tuning that we all do after you've already achieved all of the major gains elsewhere.

Every little bit helps. Aside from the tactical benefits listed above, narrow bars can be considered "free speed". So they are a win-win.

And they are lighter (less material) and stiffer (less leverage)...so win-win-win-win
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Old 05-06-15, 09:57 AM
  #2335  
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Originally Posted by carleton
Banchad, narrow bars are part of the fine tuning that we all do after you've already achieved all of the major gains elsewhere.

Every little bit helps. Aside from the tactical benefits listed above, narrow bars can be considered "free speed". So they are a win-win.

And they are lighter (less material) and stiffer (less leverage)...so win-win-win-win
Yeah I understand that. I was making a point of the 42cm and the aero 42cm bar supposedly having a 15/20W difference though. This seems weird to me given the rider should in theory be in the exact same position if the bars are the same width.
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Old 05-06-15, 10:21 AM
  #2336  
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Originally Posted by Banchad
Yeah I understand that. I was making a point of the 42cm and the aero 42cm bar supposedly having a 15/20W difference though. This seems weird to me given the rider should in theory be in the exact same position if the bars are the same width.
oh, heh, i didn't even see that.
The confidence intervals overlap, though, so you can probably expect the actual difference to be quite a bit less than that.
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Old 05-06-15, 11:12 AM
  #2337  
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I think one benefit is that, for wider riders, narrow bars have the rider make an arrowhead shape with their arms.

/ \

versus

| |

Which forces some air around the rider as opposed to having it funnel into the big scoop that is the torso area.

Wasn't the "Praying Mantis" position actually proven to be optimal primarily because it closed that scoop?


Last edited by carleton; 05-06-15 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 05-06-15, 11:18 AM
  #2338  
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33cm bars ridden by huge guys at the top of the sport:

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Old 05-06-15, 11:35 AM
  #2339  
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Praying mantis is only optimal if it works for your body, otherwise it's generally much worse than conventional position. So much of aerodynamics is interactions, so the answer to anything but the most basic if aerodynamic questions is that it depends.
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Old 05-06-15, 11:56 AM
  #2340  
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Originally Posted by carleton
33cm bars ridden by huge guys at the top of the sport:

This from the world Champs this year? I felt kind of sad for NZ
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Old 05-06-15, 02:11 PM
  #2341  
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Originally Posted by gtrob
very little data here other than the graphic but




I think this is a very overlooked part in getting aero. Id love to seem some hard data and going right down to a 37 scattos compared to a big wide traditional track bar.
Looking at this picture, 44 & 46 are too wide for this rider's shoulder width. He should have started with a proper fitting 40 or 42 and then went narrower from that width for the comparison. With bars wider than his shoulders, his arms are artificially spread out to catch additional wind. No matter what was trendy, that has never been a good fit in my book.
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Old 05-06-15, 02:15 PM
  #2342  
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Originally Posted by carleton
33cm bars ridden by huge guys at the top of the sport:

and they are wearing straps!!
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Old 05-06-15, 05:08 PM
  #2343  
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Actually kind of tempted to splash out a little bit on a Scatto after all this talk of narrower bars.
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Old 05-06-15, 07:11 PM
  #2344  
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[QUOTE=carleton;17781736

Which forces some air around the rider as opposed to having it funnel into the big scoop that is the torso area.

Wasn't the "Praying Mantis" position actually proven to be optimal primarily because it closed that scoop?
[/QUOTE]

This was Obree's reasoning for developing the Egg position. The German pursuit team tested it, and it is extremely fast on a single rider, and even faster in formation as the bikes are much shorter, allowing the riders to get closer together. Could you imagine practicing those transitions?
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Old 05-07-15, 01:11 AM
  #2345  
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Does anyone use preworkout? For racing or lifting?
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Old 05-08-15, 01:30 AM
  #2346  
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Decided I'm going to get a Scatto. 35 or 37cm? Will it matter much?
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Old 05-08-15, 01:46 AM
  #2347  
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Depends on you I guess. I got 37 and am cool with them, but know a few wo got 35 and it was a little too much for endurance events
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Old 05-08-15, 01:49 AM
  #2348  
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Originally Posted by Murakami
Depends on you I guess. I got 37 and am cool with them, but know a few wo got 35 and it was a little too much for endurance events
How long were those events? I'm not an endurance guy anyway so not too bothered by that but I guess a compromise at 37cm might be a good idea.
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Old 05-18-15, 06:29 PM
  #2349  
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[h=1]Just got hold of a Zipp Disk and now need a 90 Degree Presta Valve adapter for my pump. Any thoughts on these and which are easiest to use? I understood that some require a helper to hold the adapter onto the valve , am I correct?[/h]
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Old 05-18-15, 07:00 PM
  #2350  
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Do NOT get the zipp one. Its expensive, and you generally need help holding it (depending on the pump really)

I use this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Topeak-Pressur.../dp/B00GKH49GI

however, its not perfect. Its difficult to screw on, doesn't thread right sometimes, adds resistance to pumping. BUT I can thread it on and use a pump with 2 hands alone, and it costs 1/3 of the stupid ZIPP one.
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