Bike Fit
#26
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It’s WAY more complicated than that. Rules of thumb like KOPS or have bar obscure front hub may give you a reasonable starting point but may not really apply to you based on your flexibility and other factors. It’s gotta feel comfortable on the road. Talk to the best fitter at your LBS and find a time when you and they have spare time for you to test ride a few.
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Stand bent over with your hands on your knees. That is about the position.
#28
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The numbers seem low as in the calculator did a bad job fitting, or you think I put in the wrong numbers?
How does that work? I did try out a 61 cm diverge at a shop, but is it normal to walk in and ask to try it a few sizes of the same bike, i.e. a 58, 60 and 62 synapse, roubaix or domane? Or will the shop just get fed up with me? Is the handlebars should block the hub valid for reach? What should I be feeling for?
I assume the uncut tube would require buying a fresh tube. Do you just put a bunch of spacers? How do you feel about the 9 cm stem and the impact on handling?
If you don't have a bike maybe you could rent one or borrow one? That way you would at least have a starting point.
So far the only frame I've found that has a TT less than the seat tube is the CAAD12, but finding that used may be difficult since it is newer.
How does that work? I did try out a 61 cm diverge at a shop, but is it normal to walk in and ask to try it a few sizes of the same bike, i.e. a 58, 60 and 62 synapse, roubaix or domane? Or will the shop just get fed up with me? Is the handlebars should block the hub valid for reach? What should I be feeling for?
I assume the uncut tube would require buying a fresh tube. Do you just put a bunch of spacers? How do you feel about the 9 cm stem and the impact on handling?
If you don't have a bike maybe you could rent one or borrow one? That way you would at least have a starting point.
So far the only frame I've found that has a TT less than the seat tube is the CAAD12, but finding that used may be difficult since it is newer.
I think any shop should be happy to let you try different sizes, but what feels good riding around the parking lot might not feel good 40 miles into a ride, or 6 months down the road. It takes time to find out what works and as you get more fit or flexible your fit may change, or, like me, when you get older.
Another thing is bikes from different companies will fit different even if they are the same "size".
The seat tube length is actually the least concerning of the measurements (within reason). Top tube, reach, and stack are more important. Again, 2 bikes that have the same seat tube size may fit completely different. I have a 62cm Gunnar and a 65cm Seven and the Seven has a shorter top tube.
Most forks are made with a 300mm steer tube. Big frames sometimes come with these steer tubes uncut. I like a frame with 230mm head tube so I don't have to use a ton of spacers to get the stem up as high as it will go. This gives me a drop of about 1 inch from the saddle to the bars on my Gunnar and more on the Seven because the bottom bracket is higher.
As I said earlier, the best thing to do is put some miles in and see what you like and don't like in your fit and adjust from there.
If you don't have a bike maybe you could rent or borrow one to get a starting point?
Last edited by big john; 08-31-19 at 04:41 PM.
#29
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SERIOUS bikefitting gets much more involved than stack and reach.
Then again I have had "serious" bikefitters who ultimately proved to me that they had NFI what they were doing.
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#30
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Definitely buy used. You will want a new bike right away in either case.
But go to shops and test ride.
Are you certain you want a road bike? Get a used hybrid with risers for like $250 (like a used sirrus) and go riding. If dead set on a road bike, still spend around that.
That calculator is a bit funky. I am shorter, but have a similar body type. The calculator recommends bike sizes that don't exist. Yours are a bit more extreme, though.
The best I can recommend would be a 58, shop cheap and smart, ride for a bit, then plan the next bike if you like cycling.
But go to shops and test ride.
Are you certain you want a road bike? Get a used hybrid with risers for like $250 (like a used sirrus) and go riding. If dead set on a road bike, still spend around that.
That calculator is a bit funky. I am shorter, but have a similar body type. The calculator recommends bike sizes that don't exist. Yours are a bit more extreme, though.
The best I can recommend would be a 58, shop cheap and smart, ride for a bit, then plan the next bike if you like cycling.
#31
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It’s WAY more complicated than that. Rules of thumb like KOPS or have bar obscure front hub may give you a reasonable starting point but may not really apply to you based on your flexibility and other factors. It’s gotta feel comfortable on the road. Talk to the best fitter at your LBS and find a time when you and they have spare time for you to test ride a few.
I think any shop should be happy to let you try different sizes, but what feels good riding around the parking lot might not feel good 40 miles into a ride, or 6 months down the road. It takes time to find out what works and as you get more fit or flexible your fit may change, or, like me, when you get older.
As I said earlier, the best thing to do is put some miles in and see what you like and don't like in your fit and adjust from there.
If you don't have a bike maybe you could rent or borrow one to get a starting point?
As I said earlier, the best thing to do is put some miles in and see what you like and don't like in your fit and adjust from there.
If you don't have a bike maybe you could rent or borrow one to get a starting point?
My current plan is to hit the bike shop and try out some 56, 58 and 60 cm endurance bikes (roubaix, domane and synapse). From looking at geometry charts, the 60 cm domane has a 58 cm ETT and the other two have a 58 cm ETT on their 58 cm bikes. The synapse also seems to have the smallest stack to reach ratio (lower than the Trek Emonda). None of the rides will be long. I don't know anyone I can borrow from and the bikes they rent are a specific fleet of bikes, not necessarily what you want to try out.
I did see a 2013 Specialized Secteur Sport(everysingle.bike | 2013 Specialized Secteur Sport Compact) for sale. Claims to be endurance geometry. Lower ratio than the Domane and Roubaix, but higher than the Synapse. It's a 58 cm, so 58.2 cm TT. Seems promising, but given the shop isn't open tomorrow I won't get the chance to ride some others first, so doesn't seem wise to pursue it sadly. Other concern I have is the 51 cm ST and only 35 cm seat post length. Concerned that would be too short for me ( the fit calculator said a 82 cm seat to bb, and that bike would only have about 4 cm of post on the tube at that length).
What is considered a lot of miles on a bike? More curiosity. That one said like 2.5k miles, so not sure if that is well ridden and mech will need replaced or if that is still young.
Last edited by am0n; 09-01-19 at 12:20 PM.
#32
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The Secteur is a nice bike. I chose mine over a carbon Synapse after comparing the two. Its ride qualities, to me, were on par with the Roubaix of that vintage (2011). My oldest son now rides it. Surely there's an aftermarket seat tube long enough to suffice.
And fit you get a longer seat post, make sure it's a two-bolt version. You can really dial in the perfect tilt with those.
And fit you get a longer seat post, make sure it's a two-bolt version. You can really dial in the perfect tilt with those.
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#33
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Check that the seat post is long enough but if it isn't as long as it is a standard round post you can get longer.
Also make sure the steerer hasn't been cut short.
Also make sure the steerer hasn't been cut short.
#34
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What is considered a lot of miles on a bike? More curiosity. That one said like 2.5k miles, so not sure if that is well ridden and mech will need replaced or if that is still young.
Unlike cars,, bikes don't have an odometer so you can check the miles.
If you're looking at used bikes there are no guarantees, but look it over carefully. Are the teeth on the chainrings shaped like a sharktooth? If so you may need a new drivetrain. Spin the wheels and see if they wobble.
I have put 30,000 miles or more on several bikes and the frames were still ok. I also had a bike crack at the bottom bracket with 15,000 miles. Wheels, on the other hand, usually fail at about 8-10,000 miles (rear wheel).
The reason I suggested renting a bike is so you can get a baseline on your fit. If you rent a bike, it doesn't matter what brand, you can take a tape measure to it and discover things about what you like and don't like.
That Secteur looks like a nice bike but a 58 would be too small for me, the bars would be too low.
Last edited by big john; 09-01-19 at 02:12 PM.
#35
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The Secteur is a nice bike. I chose mine over a carbon Synapse after comparing the two. Its ride qualities, to me, were on par with the Roubaix of that vintage (2011). My oldest son now rides it. Surely there's an aftermarket seat tube long enough to suffice.
And fit you get a longer seat post, make sure it's a two-bolt version. You can really dial in the perfect tilt with those.
And fit you get a longer seat post, make sure it's a two-bolt version. You can really dial in the perfect tilt with those.
Like cars, the way a bike has been taken care of is more important than miles (within reason), and whether or not it has been crashed or abused.
Unlike cars,, bikes don't have an odometer so you can check the miles.
If you're looking at used bikes there are no guarantees, but look it over carefully. Are the teeth on the chainrings shaped like a sharktooth? If so you may need a new drivetrain. Spin the wheels and see if they wobble.
I have put 30,000 miles or more on several bikes and the frames were still ok. I also had a bike crack at the bottom bracket with 15,000 miles. Wheels, on the other hand, usually fail at about 8-10,000 miles (rear wheel).
The reason I suggested renting a bike is so you can get a baseline on your fit. If you rent a bike, it doesn't matter what brand, you can take a tape measure to it and discover things about what you like and don't like.
That Secteur looks like a nice bike but a 58 would be too small for me, the bars would be too low.
Unlike cars,, bikes don't have an odometer so you can check the miles.
If you're looking at used bikes there are no guarantees, but look it over carefully. Are the teeth on the chainrings shaped like a sharktooth? If so you may need a new drivetrain. Spin the wheels and see if they wobble.
I have put 30,000 miles or more on several bikes and the frames were still ok. I also had a bike crack at the bottom bracket with 15,000 miles. Wheels, on the other hand, usually fail at about 8-10,000 miles (rear wheel).
The reason I suggested renting a bike is so you can get a baseline on your fit. If you rent a bike, it doesn't matter what brand, you can take a tape measure to it and discover things about what you like and don't like.
That Secteur looks like a nice bike but a 58 would be too small for me, the bars would be too low.
#36
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I actually don't know my body measurements except my cycling inseam is 38", I think. I could probably ride that bike if the steer tube was uncut so I could get the bars high enough. I looked at a geometry chart and I think that bike has a 194mm head tube for the 58 frame so with an uncut steerer (300mm) I would need 36mm more spacers than I have with my 230mm headtube. I don't like a huge stack of spacers or a super long seatpost so I use frames from 62 up.
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#37
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I actually don't know my body measurements except my cycling inseam is 38", I think. I could probably ride that bike if the steer tube was uncut so I could get the bars high enough. I looked at a geometry chart and I think that bike has a 194mm head tube for the 58 frame so with an uncut steerer (300mm) I would need 36mm more spacers than I have with my 230mm headtube. I don't like a huge stack of spacers or a super long seatpost so I use frames from 62 up.
#38
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#39
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BTW you can go nuts with fit and geometry charts, so realize you will have to compromise and use your comfort as a guide. In case you, or anyone else with wacky body types like ours is interested, I am posting the schematic of my custom Habanero. Even this is a compromise, the head tube and seat tube should be slightly longer, but a longer HT would have severely limited my choices of forks as the streerer tube would be too short.
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#40
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Took some measurements of my hybrid. Some eyeballing involved, but this was just to get a rough feel.
BB to ST top: 21 inches (53.3 cm)
BB to Saddle Top: 31.625 inches (80.3 cm, pretty much what the calculator said)
ST top to Saddle Top: 10.625 inches (27 cm)
I estimated the thickness from top of saddle to top of seat post was about 2 inches, leaving the seat post extending about 8.625 inches (21.9 cm)
Assuming that's not too far off, and the Secteur is indeed only 51 cm ST on the 58 cm size and to get the same height (both cranks are 17.5), I'd need an extra 2.3 cm to the seat post for a total of about 24.2 cm. If the post is indeed 35 cm, would leave about 10.8 cm on the tube, which seems fine? Only source I found said 15 cm or at least 9 cm as long as you are 2.5 cm below the bottom of the top tube.
Also tried to measure some of the reach dimensions, but since this is a hybrid not sure it is very applicable.
23.375 inch ETT (59.4 cm)
3.5 inch Stem (9 cm)
3.75 inch BB to Saddle setback (9.4 cm)
22 inch Saddle to Handlebar (55.9 cm)
Only, those dimensions aren't far off (recommended 2 cm longer stem and 1.5 cm longer setback, but that'd reduce the ETT by 3.5 cm to 56 which is almost spot on) even the Saddle to Handlebar is only off by about 1 cm.
Obviously, though, hoods on a drop bar are going to stretch me more. Roughly how much will the hoods stretch me out over flat bars?
BB to ST top: 21 inches (53.3 cm)
BB to Saddle Top: 31.625 inches (80.3 cm, pretty much what the calculator said)
ST top to Saddle Top: 10.625 inches (27 cm)
I estimated the thickness from top of saddle to top of seat post was about 2 inches, leaving the seat post extending about 8.625 inches (21.9 cm)
Assuming that's not too far off, and the Secteur is indeed only 51 cm ST on the 58 cm size and to get the same height (both cranks are 17.5), I'd need an extra 2.3 cm to the seat post for a total of about 24.2 cm. If the post is indeed 35 cm, would leave about 10.8 cm on the tube, which seems fine? Only source I found said 15 cm or at least 9 cm as long as you are 2.5 cm below the bottom of the top tube.
Also tried to measure some of the reach dimensions, but since this is a hybrid not sure it is very applicable.
23.375 inch ETT (59.4 cm)
3.5 inch Stem (9 cm)
3.75 inch BB to Saddle setback (9.4 cm)
22 inch Saddle to Handlebar (55.9 cm)
Only, those dimensions aren't far off (recommended 2 cm longer stem and 1.5 cm longer setback, but that'd reduce the ETT by 3.5 cm to 56 which is almost spot on) even the Saddle to Handlebar is only off by about 1 cm.
Obviously, though, hoods on a drop bar are going to stretch me more. Roughly how much will the hoods stretch me out over flat bars?
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There are lots of different bar shapes and sizes as well as stems.
#43
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#44
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I did not see that, I looked up a Secteur on a different chart. In that case I wouldn't have a problem with that frame. Very unusual for a 58 to have that length head tube, must be including Zertz. The question then is do you want the bars high like that? If you want them really low that could be an issue.
There are lots of different bar shapes and sizes as well as stems.
There are lots of different bar shapes and sizes as well as stems.
@am0n, have you tried a 60cm Domane yet?
We have very similar measurements(though flexibility might differ), so I understand what might work well for you.
We have very similar measurements(though flexibility might differ), so I understand what might work well for you.
Edit: quick check of both bike shops websites and they don't have any 60 cm in stock.
Last edited by am0n; 09-01-19 at 10:21 PM.
#45
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I'm not yelling at you.
Our flexibility might be different, but I know what works for our dimensions. I never wanted to own a Trek bicycle when I bought the Domane, but it was the only stock frame that fit like my custom.
#46
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BTW you can go nuts with fit and geometry charts, so realize you will have to compromise and use your comfort as a guide. In case you, or anyone else with wacky body types like ours is interested, I am posting the schematic of my custom Habanero. Even this is a compromise, the head tube and seat tube should be slightly longer, but a longer HT would have severely limited my choices of forks as the streerer tube would be too short.
#47
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Here is the side by side. What in particular would be concerning different between the two, besides the seat tube length.
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Go ride a 58 cm Secteur, and a 60cm Domane. Then tell us what you think fits better ,taking into account that the fit can be adjusted slightly
Last edited by noodle soup; 09-01-19 at 11:21 PM.
#49
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I thought stack was measured from BB? Wouldn't that take into account the difference in the drop already?
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