tricky 

Bump!

This group does some great things and this list should be no big deal for us to knock out. Please consider digging into your parts bin or ordering off of the Amazon wish list in the previous list to get this knocked out. 👍

chainwhip

Kurt (with a boost from Tricky)...I've just added several of the small parts on the wishlist to my Amazon cart.
The seat-binder bolts only had (1) available tonight from the listed seller, so that's what I got.

Cheers, and Merry Christmas!

cudak888 

I'm indebted to you both - as is the program. Thank you!

-Kurt

DMC707

Yep - mainly a street thing


Excellent project though !

chainwhip

No worries!


Love this pic ^^^. Very cool to see the scale of the bikes.

chainwhip

Kurt - are any of the three bikes in use yet?

Would be fun for people to help get them over the finish line!

Velo Yellow Wishlist Link at amazon

cudak888 

I've got to get a photo of them next to one of the Raleighs for size comparison. They're tiny!

Nothing in use yet; still waiting on a few of those wish list bits before the first one is ready to go. Top tube cable clips were a biggie for that one's completion along with the other two, and since the clips are no longer on the Amazon list, I think someone might have been very generous on that account already!

Another BF'er gifted the grips for Bike #3 , which arrived today (whoever you are, B., thank you!), and I noticed the crown races disappeared from the Amazon list too. That'll get the other two back together as framesets ready for the handlebars, wheels, and brake cables + housings. Will post pics when I have them together at their next point in the build.

-Kurt
​​​​​

tricky 

Awesome! So happy to see this move along!

chainwhip

Kurt -
A few questions about some of the components on the Wishlist:

Q1) Do items need to be branded goods (ie "Tektro"), or would you be open to some items from aliexpress?

Q2) Brakes: is Silver a requirement, or would a matching black brakeset get the job done?

These look like shimano br5800 knock-offs, and look well finished and solid in the pictures.
Edit: I just noticed in the first brake pic they didn't airbrush out the "105".

Black Brake-Set Example from aliexpress:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/400027...310ce63&is_c=N







(3) Sets of Brake calipers could be bought/shipped for a bit over the price of (1) Set of the Silver Tektros.
Free Delivery from China: mid to late JAN...total price about $47.00USD.

Q3) Handlebars:
Sellers of Vintage Schwinn child handlebars are asking for high dollar amounts.
Would it be possible to get kid-sized/ narrower North Road bars by cutting down the grip ends ? Some of the N Roads have very long grip sections.

N. Road (steel) Handlebar Example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ROA...gAAOxydINSXFon500mm WIDTH

SILVER

25.4mm CLAMP DIAMETER

eBaySeller: abaxo is offering these at $7.87/pair with $9.83 ship, and might combine shipping.

Doesn't seem removing 4cm from each bar-end would remove too much to put on grips and levers.




Or, at 47.5cm wide, "Porteur Bicycle Aluminum Touring Handlebar 475mm Width, 25.4mm Bar Clamp", these cool aluminum Porteurs are $15.84/free ship.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porteur-Bic...item46a0acb44b

CliffordK

Where did the bikes come from? Do you have a local velodrome?

It would be fun to get a bunch of them for track racing. How fast do 10 to 12 year olds go? Could the bikes be safely ridden on a 1/4 mile flat track?

cudak888 

Answers incoming:

I'm going to combine answers on this one:

I'm usually not against the AliExpress knockoff parts if I were experimenting for myself - there's a lot of good bits there, and I'd be open to seatposts and such where it's obvious that it's the same stuff that J&B rebadges as "Sunlite" here.

However, when it comes to brakes, I saw some critical reviews of similar dual-pivots on Amazon for being flexy. Since short-reach dual pivots are so common used these days, I'd feel much more comfortable building the one absolutely essential part of these bikes with a Shimano or Tektro set - and I'm completely open (and would prefer) a used set if someone can spare them. I think the new Tektros are overpriced and a waste for being so, but put them on the Amazon list only as they're cheaper than the Shimanos.

Either are just fine. All three bikes are going to wind up with radically different tire colors, not to mention that the Andante decals don't match either (I'll probably try to remove them entirely). They look great either way; it's not a big thing.

FYI, there are a few Spin bicycles from the big donation that will probably get broken down for parts, and the Gen 3's have straight-pull levers. If one of the Gen 3s gets broken down for parts, that'll be the source for the last set of brake levers (for this reason, I removed the $34(!) set from Amazon. Amazing how many lever sets there are linear pull and not straight-pull.

All the North Roads have been taken care of - in fact, the final brake lever set is the only thing necessary to complete all three bars at 100%.

-Kurt

cudak888 

Update time!

Many donated bits have arrived over the last few days. I've been up to my ears in Spin bicycles the entire week, but I had a chance to work on these this afternoon.

The top tube cable clips are now installed on the first bike, along with the seatpost binder:






The clips are absolutely perfect, though I'm re-thinking the seatpost binder. The initial idea was that the wider binder bolt would make it less likely for someone to strip the bolt or damage the lug by tightening the wrong side, but the bolt is a bit too long (cutting it isn't an issue though). More importantly, it is also a horribly sloppy fit. I may go back to the standard binder. Thankfully, only one has been received, so I'm taking it off the list lest anyone order two others.

I think I have a closeup on my phone that I didn't transfer with these pictures; will post if so.

I love the look from the cockpit on these. The stem and the replacement binder bolt look really nice and snazzy:



Here's a size comparison with my 1982 Schwinn Superior:



I was also shipped a pair of crown races, which means the forks are ready for installation. I wound up having to face fork #3 a lot more than I figured - it looks as if someone prepared the crown race with a file and gouged a V into the race surface. Thankfully, the new raceways fit tight and square on the faced surfaces.



Fork #2:



The shop is a bit full right now, but this is where I stopped this evening. I need to do something about the inside of bike #3 's headtube - the top crown race won't sit tight in it. I have the J.A. Stein knurling tool - which was obviously used on the forks - but I don't know if such a tool exists to do the same thing to the inside of a tube.



-Kurt

chainwhip

Looks like Right Lever running Front Brake...not common in US, is it?

cudak888 

It's not common because of the CPSC, but the CPSC aren't the ones working with kids in the field.

It is not fair to kids to teach them about safe braking, only to ask them to take their hand off the most effective brake when teaching them how to signal. While I know the Velo Yellow's Tektros have the capability to get someone stopped on the rear brake alone, the CPSC braking setup only makes it more difficult for the kids to get a feel for everything.

Granted, I do have my reservations that the amount of effort put into signaling is a subliminal insinuation that vehicular cycling takes precedence over protected bike lanes, but that's a discussion for another forum.

-Kurt

P.S.: I find particularly troubling that the CPSC came up with the "left-front" brake orientation to prevent endos. In my experience, a novice rider - even an adult - may grab the levers in any combination, so moving the front brake from one side to another doesn't really change the result unless someone learns on their own or learns through an instructor.

These are the same folks who mandate coaster brakes on kids' "sidewalk" bikes (with different pressure requirements for youth vs. adult bikes), yet, if you actually inspect the guts of a coasterbrake out of a kids 16" or 20" bike, you'll find the exact same guts as a coaster out of an adult's cruiser. Not to mention that coasters make it a lot more difficult to teach how to pedal or brake, since many kids tend to backpedal without warning when first learning.

cudak888 

I just realized that I missed your questions when replying to chainwhip - my apologies!

These were built as rental bikes for the Brian Piccolo Park Velodrome, so they were purpose-built for the track (an arguable point, given how the framebuilder seemed to throw them together with whatever was on hand). There are about 17(?) or so still left at Recyclable Bicycle Exchange - the remainder all have track crowns and forks. I know one of my neighbors (who's son rides road with him) might pick one up - his son gave the first bike a beta test ride for fit and ease of riding.

The gearing used to be 50/17 - a whopping 71.5 gear inches on the 650x23C's. The gearing is now at 43/20, which works out to 52.3 gear inches. Neighbor's son kept a good cruising speed around the block with it. I'd like to reduce the gearing down to 39/20 (47.4 gear inches) to make them a bit more usable for our rodeos and the novice riders.

-Kurt

cudak888 

More progress. The builder didn't provide provisions for a keyed headset washer (the tabs were roughly ground out of the washer), so I stopped by the LBS to get some replacements. I'm not a fan of slotting the steerer, so I flattened an area with the Dremel to suit (I believe Trek was one of the few mass-produced builders who used this method as well on early bikes).



The steerer tubes are also a bit longer on these two bikes (probably because of the aggressive re-facing of the crown races), so I installed a threadless spacer below the keyed washer on each.



And here they are now. There is a fair bit to go before all three are complete, but it's entirely thanks to the generosity of the forum members that so much progress has been made this quickly.



Have to love those top tube cable clips.

-Kurt

Senrab62 

These are awesome. My girlfriend's 10 y/o would love one! Very cool projects 👍

chainwhip

...a couple of trailblazers : originally posted by a proud BF member/ grandpa.

Sorry I don't recall the original poster.


Single speeds, looks like.

cudak888 

I almost put this in my Memorial Day COVID build thread, but it makes no sense to split off the discussion:

It's a rainy day here, so I figured I'd look for projects to finish - and decided on three things, one of which would be to sort out the seat tube issues on the Velo Yellows. While the chances that kids will actually be sharing bicycles at bike rodeos before 2020 is out is low, I've got potential new bikes coming in, and I've got to clear up space in the shed. In other words, these guys gotta get finished.


(Yep, cleaned everything up and it's still a mess).

It's been a while since I read this thread, so I'm not sure if I mentioned this: Up to now, I've accepted that they were made for 26.6mm seatposts. Last night though, I started questioning that. 26.6 seatposts don't work too well in them to begin with. In fact, one came with a 26.8 rammed into it, one with a 26.4, and the last with a Galli 26.6. Each one gouged too. Seems like nobody could figure it out.

But in prepping these bikes, I have established that they were never prepped right from the framebuilder and/or the shop that contracted them. With my suspicions on high alert, I ran a bore gauge down into one of them last night. I came up with ~26.7mm at the top, 26.9mm (-0.1) where the butting expands, and a big fat seamed ridge in the way, tearing into every seatpost past an inch of installation. Believe it or not, the pic is of the tube after reaming:



But I'm getting ahead of myself now.

I've been told these were assembled with low-end Columbus tubing. I suspect the actual tubing isn't even close to being that good. Nevertheless, I looked up the specs for Cromor. Assuming Cromor tubing, Columbus specified 0.9mm final wall thickness for their seattube and also their double-butted downtubes. Taking an educated guess that the builder might have used whatever tubes were on hand, I calculated that any combination of Cromor tube could be reamed out to 26.8, with an 0.9mm final wall thickness.

With that and the post-gouging seam in mind, I decided that getting a seatpost to fit the frame wasn't the problem, the problem was getting the frame to fit a seatpost.

So out came some tools. After a number of years, I've finally assembled enough toolboxes to sort out the tools that my father used to use which included a set of reamers - coincidentally, the same tool sold to framebuilders for this job - and a caliper in a home-built wood box.

Excuse the mess; I'm still sorting out quite a few of the tools (and some "misc bike parts thrown in bins") and figuring out how to organize them.







I aimed just shy of 26.8mm with the reamer to be on the safe side...and down we went. First frame was pretty clean, but the other two...were nasty.



I was shocked to see how much came out. This is just from cleaning out roughly 0.15mm of material. Most of it was cutting out the crappy seam - correlated by the witness marks inside the tube - the cutters didn't really do much to the rest of the tube. I hope didn't do too much damage to the cutting edges. Marvel Mystery Oil is a savior of cutting fluid.



I finished it up by running a cylinder hone down into the tube to knock down any rough edges.



It's a crappy pic, but it's buttery smooth in there now, even with the seam edge as it is (and yes, I removed the shavings from between the seatlug ears.

I also ran a heavily-greased Super Record seatpost through each of the three frames, and it fits perfectly. Won't go down past the flutes though, but I could only take the reamer so far down the tube.



-Kurt

P.S.: Yes, I know the BB's are installed. They're cartridge, so the worst that'll happen is that I'll have to pull them out and clean out some shavings to no ill effects. I could have pulled the BB's, but I had those two other projects to get to.

oneclick 

A budget of $0 sucks, but there is a way to fix that off-centre hole. Get a milling cutter and a bit of steel tube of slightly larger diameter (peen it if necessary), clamp the fork (better) this time, and have at it. Milling cutters are so much stiffer than drill bits that they won't, for all practical purposes, bend or walk. Mill your hole, and press the tube in. Don't try this with a drill bit, you'll just wind up with a bigger off-centre hole.

I had the same problem with a 60's Cinelli - came from the factory with the hole about 10 degrees off, and a brake-fixing bolt bent to hide the fact. Too much cheap Chianti the night before it was built, I suspect. Now that the brake is in you can't see it. The only possible downside is that you will have to use a non-recessed brake fixing bolt.

cudak888 

I've done something similar on a 1975 Raleigh Pro. Good idea. Will keep it in mind when I finally get to the brakes on that particular brake.

-Kurt

Russ Roth

Good looking bikes. Regarding the cpsc rule on brakes it has been my experience that when the front brake is squeezed one handed the handlebars have a tendency to move some,which in young hands can make them unstable. I won't squeeze the front brake one handed for just this reason and find doing so unsettling. Yet I can grab the back brake with a reasonable amount of force and the bike tracks smoothly. Course I find it easier to just point if I'm turning since drivers get the point and most people don't know the hand signals and admittedly neither do I. For my own bike my gravel, road and cross are set up front right but I either signal really briefly or not at all and stay away from the brakes while doing so.

cudak888 

Interesting - I've seen similar when kids have been handling straight-bar bikes during our rodeos, but not with the Yellows: When the first one had the seatpost installed in those older photos (long before COVID), I had a few of the neighborhood kids test it.

Admittedly, I started with the son of a road cyclist (who rides with his dad), but not everyone had #madskillz, and the braking didn't appear to influence the front end. The thing that I did take note of - even when I rode one of these myself (yes...) is that the slack headtube angle to prevent toe overlap has resulted in a fair amount of rake, and that rake results in wheel flop. The flop doesn't even factor in unless you're at a crawl - and if so, it is possible for the steering input to pull.

I considered a centering spring, but those tend to cause even more problems - unwanted oscillation.

-Kurt

Russ Roth

I'd suspect wheel straightness will influence that as well though I keep my wheels really straight, ive had dents and bends that can't be trued out and they tend to make the brakes pulse. Cheaper or poorly maintained wheels could really have brake pulse and wobble. Let's face it, most government initiatives deal with the worst case scenario for those least willing or understanding of the potential consequences.

xiaoman1 

Kurt,
My post 14 is now multiplied by infinity....Great job!!!!
Ben