Seller refuses to open box
05-20-20, 09:06 AM
#127
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
plonz , thanks for your response. I believe that future readers of this thread may find it particularly helpful. Indeed, I had already moved on when I started this thread, which might not have been clear from my OP. Frank knows this from our interaction through eBay messaging.
I confess I gave the thread a click-baity title. I wanted to start a thread for posterity, since I'm sure this situation, which was new to me, would be familiar to some of the more experienced folks here. This forum attracts a lot of new fans of the bicycle looking for expert answers to questions. I decided to become a paying member because I perceived value in the advice I was getting for "free."
I think your post sums up what I'll personally consider in the future, and maybe other folks may find this discussion helpful. I also want to add something which others have noted: The auction includes "sealed" in the description. Asking the seller to open the box would require the seller to change the terms of the auction, which is a big thing to ask (setting aside the matter that it's not a big dollar auction). Most of you said it wasn't necessarily bad manners to ask the question, but nearly everyone here agrees that the seller can do as he pleases. It's his auction, after all. As I said in my original post, I knew that, but I'm glad to know that most of you wouldn't consider it improper to ask.
I thought bark_eater makes a great point about the experienced seller's perspective:
"The seller may be trying to make a small profit selling an item at fair market value. To do that he may well be considering the value of his own time and efficiently processing the items for sale. So the item you are interested may already be packed in a sealed mailing carton. So if you are asking him to undo work and change the condition of the item resulting in more work for him in repacking and having to revise the listing. Why don't you offer him $5 to open the box?"
Last ride 76 makes a similar point.
This helped answer something that originally baffled me. Knowing this was not a high-dollar item, I imagined that the "sealed box" aspect might not be as valuable as it would with top value vintage parts. So, I thought that the seller could actually gain by opening the box, rather than lose. You point out that he loses time: he has to open the box and shoot more photos. I'm sure a lot of busy eBay retailers have to streamline their process. Still, on this occasion, Frank took the time to respond to my question, which some of you say you would have ignored ( thinktubes and onyerleft , for example). I appreciate that he responded, so I decided to move on.
I want say, again, that I make no negative observations here about FTW! If you're reading this thread, Frank, I hope you're grinning.
I also decided to post about this because I thought it might be a lively discussion...I'm only an active member for about a year, but I'm already aware that we love to...uh...discuss.
Cheers,
Oliver H.
I confess I gave the thread a click-baity title. I wanted to start a thread for posterity, since I'm sure this situation, which was new to me, would be familiar to some of the more experienced folks here. This forum attracts a lot of new fans of the bicycle looking for expert answers to questions. I decided to become a paying member because I perceived value in the advice I was getting for "free."
I think your post sums up what I'll personally consider in the future, and maybe other folks may find this discussion helpful. I also want to add something which others have noted: The auction includes "sealed" in the description. Asking the seller to open the box would require the seller to change the terms of the auction, which is a big thing to ask (setting aside the matter that it's not a big dollar auction). Most of you said it wasn't necessarily bad manners to ask the question, but nearly everyone here agrees that the seller can do as he pleases. It's his auction, after all. As I said in my original post, I knew that, but I'm glad to know that most of you wouldn't consider it improper to ask.
I thought bark_eater makes a great point about the experienced seller's perspective:
"The seller may be trying to make a small profit selling an item at fair market value. To do that he may well be considering the value of his own time and efficiently processing the items for sale. So the item you are interested may already be packed in a sealed mailing carton. So if you are asking him to undo work and change the condition of the item resulting in more work for him in repacking and having to revise the listing. Why don't you offer him $5 to open the box?"
Last ride 76 makes a similar point.
This helped answer something that originally baffled me. Knowing this was not a high-dollar item, I imagined that the "sealed box" aspect might not be as valuable as it would with top value vintage parts. So, I thought that the seller could actually gain by opening the box, rather than lose. You point out that he loses time: he has to open the box and shoot more photos. I'm sure a lot of busy eBay retailers have to streamline their process. Still, on this occasion, Frank took the time to respond to my question, which some of you say you would have ignored ( thinktubes and onyerleft , for example). I appreciate that he responded, so I decided to move on.
I want say, again, that I make no negative observations here about FTW! If you're reading this thread, Frank, I hope you're grinning.
I also decided to post about this because I thought it might be a lively discussion...I'm only an active member for about a year, but I'm already aware that we love to...uh...discuss.
Cheers,
Oliver H.
From your original post: "Folks,
I'm hoping some of you with more vintage experience than I have can share some perspective here. I'm interested in this eBay auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153935006219?"
What a waste of time you've caused a lot of people who have a true desire to help. That also smacks of the definition of an Internet Troll = someone who posts just to stir things up.
As others have said, the sealed box is part of the value of the object that's for sale.
Cheers
Likes For Miele Man:
05-20-20, 09:41 AM
#128
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,395 Times
in
2,092 Posts
A flux capacitor.
If he was, he would have stated the color he wanted them in. Search the OP's posts. Not once is the desired color mentioned.
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
__________________
Last edited by cudak888; 05-20-20 at 06:14 PM.
Likes For cudak888:
05-20-20, 11:10 AM
#129
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I unsubscribed because my inbox blew up. Coming back now after a few days. Whew!
Miele Man , I apologize if my post was unclear. You responded very helpfully to a previous post of mine about 8s bar-end shifters. I took your advice about 7 of 8 cogs, and it's working beautifully. Thank you.
Anyway, I tried to clarify my interest in the second half of my OP:
"Am I out of line for requesting a photo of the actual object? Does opening the box devalue the item?"
In other words, what do you veteran vintage sellers consider polite and appropriate buyer questions and what are the pros and cons of sealed boxes? Probably, I should have stated it exactly like that. Again, sorry. Unclear OP or no, everyone's responses certainly have answered my questions. Thank you!
I had no idea this thread would go on so long, but I guess it has at least 3 days and 1 hour of life left in it...
Regards,
Oliver H.
WAIT! I your original post you stated you had an interest in getting those brake levers but wanted the seller to open the sealed box. Now you're saying that you didn't have any interest in those levers at the time you started this thread?
From your original post: "Folks,
I'm hoping some of you with more vintage experience than I have can share some perspective here. I'm interested in this eBay auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153935006219?"
What a waste of time you've caused a lot of people who have a true desire to help. That also smacks of the definition of an Internet Troll = someone who posts just to stir things up.
As others have said, the sealed box is part of the value of the object that's for sale.
Cheers
From your original post: "Folks,
I'm hoping some of you with more vintage experience than I have can share some perspective here. I'm interested in this eBay auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153935006219?"
What a waste of time you've caused a lot of people who have a true desire to help. That also smacks of the definition of an Internet Troll = someone who posts just to stir things up.
As others have said, the sealed box is part of the value of the object that's for sale.
Cheers
Anyway, I tried to clarify my interest in the second half of my OP:
"Am I out of line for requesting a photo of the actual object? Does opening the box devalue the item?"
In other words, what do you veteran vintage sellers consider polite and appropriate buyer questions and what are the pros and cons of sealed boxes? Probably, I should have stated it exactly like that. Again, sorry. Unclear OP or no, everyone's responses certainly have answered my questions. Thank you!
I had no idea this thread would go on so long, but I guess it has at least 3 days and 1 hour of life left in it...
Regards,
Oliver H.
05-20-20, 11:41 AM
#130
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
I unsubscribed because my inbox blew up. Coming back now after a few days. Whew!
Miele Man , I apologize if my post was unclear. You responded very helpfully to a previous post of mine about 8s bar-end shifters. I took your advice about 7 of 8 cogs, and it's working beautifully. Thank you.
Anyway, I tried to clarify my interest in the second half of my OP:
"Am I out of line for requesting a photo of the actual object? Does opening the box devalue the item?"
In other words, what do you veteran vintage sellers consider polite and appropriate buyer questions and what are the pros and cons of sealed boxes? Probably, I should have stated it exactly like that. Again, sorry. Unclear OP or no, everyone's responses certainly have answered my questions. Thank you!
I had no idea this thread would go on so long, but I guess it has at least 3 days and 1 hour of life left in it...
Regards,
Oliver H.
Miele Man , I apologize if my post was unclear. You responded very helpfully to a previous post of mine about 8s bar-end shifters. I took your advice about 7 of 8 cogs, and it's working beautifully. Thank you.
Anyway, I tried to clarify my interest in the second half of my OP:
"Am I out of line for requesting a photo of the actual object? Does opening the box devalue the item?"
In other words, what do you veteran vintage sellers consider polite and appropriate buyer questions and what are the pros and cons of sealed boxes? Probably, I should have stated it exactly like that. Again, sorry. Unclear OP or no, everyone's responses certainly have answered my questions. Thank you!
I had no idea this thread would go on so long, but I guess it has at least 3 days and 1 hour of life left in it...
Regards,
Oliver H.
I'm glad that the 7 of 8 cogs is working out for you. I often do something similar when I want to increase my high gear teeth from 11 or 12 to 14. I'll use 7 of 9 cogs from a 9-speed cassette. Of course I also use a 9-speed chain with that setup.
Cheers
05-20-20, 01:17 PM
#131
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,515
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked 2,512 Times
in
1,510 Posts
After reading through the thread, it reminds me of an old joke or prank. You're sitting around shooting the bull with your buddies when you tell them this story.
"Let me tell y'all what happened to me the other night.
I was headed west on rt.----- when I passed a dude thumbing a ride. I decided to help him out.
He gets in with a backpack and a small box. We get back on the road and I start making small talk.
He's clutching the box like it has something important in it. So, I ask him what's in the box.
He acts a little irritated and tells me, "It's none you your business."
Well, then, my interest increased and curiosity started to get the best of me. I asked him again, "Come on, whats in the box?" He gets angry and tells me not to ask again.
That's wasn't going to work. I decided to ask him again. "What's in the box? You gotta tell me."
He started screaming. He put the box on the floorboard between his legs and pulled out a knife! We starting fighting and the car was swerving all over the road. I managed to open the passenger door and kick him out with the box still on the floorboard."
At this point you say something like, "Man, I was lucky to get out of that situation. I could have been killed!" Then you abruptly end your story and wait for the talk to continue.
If you have told your story right, someone will ask, "What was in the box?"
To which you reply, "Nothing but a bunch of **** like I've been feeding you!"
BaaHaHaHa.
"Let me tell y'all what happened to me the other night.
I was headed west on rt.----- when I passed a dude thumbing a ride. I decided to help him out.
He gets in with a backpack and a small box. We get back on the road and I start making small talk.
He's clutching the box like it has something important in it. So, I ask him what's in the box.
He acts a little irritated and tells me, "It's none you your business."
Well, then, my interest increased and curiosity started to get the best of me. I asked him again, "Come on, whats in the box?" He gets angry and tells me not to ask again.
That's wasn't going to work. I decided to ask him again. "What's in the box? You gotta tell me."
He started screaming. He put the box on the floorboard between his legs and pulled out a knife! We starting fighting and the car was swerving all over the road. I managed to open the passenger door and kick him out with the box still on the floorboard."
At this point you say something like, "Man, I was lucky to get out of that situation. I could have been killed!" Then you abruptly end your story and wait for the talk to continue.
If you have told your story right, someone will ask, "What was in the box?"
To which you reply, "Nothing but a bunch of **** like I've been feeding you!"
BaaHaHaHa.
Last edited by cb400bill; 05-24-20 at 06:04 AM.
Likes For seypat:
05-20-20, 05:09 PM
#132
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wurundjeri Country
Posts: 2,469
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1079 Post(s)
Liked 1,899 Times
in
931 Posts
"Let me tell y'all what happened to me the other night.
I was headed west on rt.----- when I passed a dude thumbing a ride. I decided to help him out.
He gets in with a backpack and a small box. We get back on the road and I start making small talk.
He's clutching the box like it has something important in it. So, I ask him what's in the box.
He acts a little irritated and tells me, "It's none of your business."
Well, then, my interest increased and curiosity started to get the best of me. I asked him again, "Come on, whats in the box?" He gets angry and tells me not to ask again.
That's wasn't going to work. I decided to ask him again. "What's in the box? You gotta tell me."
He started screaming. He put the box on the floorboard between his legs and pulled out a knife! We starting fighting and the car was swerving all over the road. I managed to open the passenger door and kick him out with the box still on the floorboard."
At this point you say something like, "Man, I was lucky to get out of that situation. I could have been killed!" Then you abruptly end your story and wait for the talk to continue.
If you have told your story right, someone will ask, "What was in the box?"
To which you reply, "It's none of your business."
I was headed west on rt.----- when I passed a dude thumbing a ride. I decided to help him out.
He gets in with a backpack and a small box. We get back on the road and I start making small talk.
He's clutching the box like it has something important in it. So, I ask him what's in the box.
He acts a little irritated and tells me, "It's none of your business."
Well, then, my interest increased and curiosity started to get the best of me. I asked him again, "Come on, whats in the box?" He gets angry and tells me not to ask again.
That's wasn't going to work. I decided to ask him again. "What's in the box? You gotta tell me."
He started screaming. He put the box on the floorboard between his legs and pulled out a knife! We starting fighting and the car was swerving all over the road. I managed to open the passenger door and kick him out with the box still on the floorboard."
At this point you say something like, "Man, I was lucky to get out of that situation. I could have been killed!" Then you abruptly end your story and wait for the talk to continue.
If you have told your story right, someone will ask, "What was in the box?"
To which you reply, "It's none of your business."
Last edited by P!N20; 05-20-20 at 05:59 PM.
Likes For P!N20:
05-20-20, 05:25 PM
#133
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 4,870
Bikes: A few too many
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 2,181 Times
in
1,183 Posts
IMHO IT'S A BOC 
Let's see if we can get this post to at least 200.
Best, Ben
Let's see if we can get this post to at least 200.
Best, Ben
05-20-20, 05:33 PM
#134
curmudgineer
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago SW burbs
Posts: 4,417
Bikes: 2 many 2 fit here
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times
in
70 Posts
Well, I haven't learned anything of particular use to me in this thread, but it has been the most entertaining one in a long while (since the last one featuring the guy with the Klein fetish), and a welcome distraction from all the current odd combination of boredom and strife! 
Now, WHAT THE HELL IS IN THE BOX!!
Now, WHAT THE HELL IS IN THE BOX!!
05-20-20, 05:42 PM
#135
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,626
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3888 Post(s)
Liked 6,485 Times
in
3,209 Posts
05-20-20, 05:50 PM
#136
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,395 Times
in
2,092 Posts
"Why are we here?" inquired man.
"To find out what's in the Dia-Compe box."
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
"To find out what's in the Dia-Compe box."
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
__________________
Last edited by cudak888; 05-20-20 at 06:13 PM.
05-20-20, 06:16 PM
#137
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,265
Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked 1,205 Times
in
701 Posts
Six pages and no mention of Grant Petersen. Until now.
Likes For noobinsf:
05-20-20, 07:04 PM
#138
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,395 Times
in
2,092 Posts
Wrong. The levers don't come with mustache bars.
I've got a question. What color SS-5's did you want?
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
__________________
Last edited by cudak888; 05-20-20 at 07:11 PM.
05-20-20, 07:12 PM
#139
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 4,870
Bikes: A few too many
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 2,181 Times
in
1,183 Posts
Last edited by xiaoman1; 05-20-20 at 07:20 PM.
Likes For xiaoman1:
05-20-20, 07:48 PM
#140
Banned.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
Well, I haven't learned anything of particular use to me in this thread, but it has been the most entertaining one in a long while (since the last one featuring the guy with the Klein fetish), and a welcome distraction from all the current odd combination of boredom and strife!
DD
Last edited by Drillium Dude; 05-20-20 at 07:52 PM.
Likes For Drillium Dude:
05-20-20, 09:50 PM
#141
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,395 Times
in
2,092 Posts
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
__________________
Last edited by cudak888; 05-20-20 at 10:45 PM.
05-20-20, 10:09 PM
#142
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,823
Bikes: 1996 Trek 970 ZX Single Track 2x11
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 614 Post(s)
Liked 565 Times
in
429 Posts
You can be darned sure I request a range of photos of different aspects, from different angles. A "picture's worth a thousand words," they say. No way to get around that.
I'm okay with a seller not wanting to go to the trouble. But unless it's a factory-boxed item (ie, a classic Mattel HotWheels toy in the original blister pack), it's hard to claim that taking proper photos of the item is going to cause some magical destruction in value.
For me: it get lots of pics and answers to all my questions, or I don't buy. But, that's me.
05-20-20, 10:17 PM
#143
Full Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 227
Bikes: 1st Track bike: 1978 Speedwell titanium 1st Road bike: 2001 Independent Fabrication Crown Jewel
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times
in
65 Posts
I looked at the auction pics - the box is sealed and it appears you would have to tear it open. Seller states "SEALED BOX" in his listing.
05-20-20, 10:23 PM
#144
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,823
Bikes: 1996 Trek 970 ZX Single Track 2x11
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 614 Post(s)
Liked 565 Times
in
429 Posts
But it's not as though the box is part of the value, beyond the NOS/NIB nature. Which photos can take care of, showing the fully-closed and -sealed box, showing it being opened, showing the item from different views. Particularly with an older item that people want to ensure is real and what they're looking for, preferring to not purchase sight-unseen.
It's a bike part, not the holy grail.
05-20-20, 10:38 PM
#145
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 4,870
Bikes: A few too many
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 2,181 Times
in
1,183 Posts
05-20-20, 10:42 PM
#146
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 4,870
Bikes: A few too many
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 2,181 Times
in
1,183 Posts
05-20-20, 10:47 PM
#147
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,395 Times
in
2,092 Posts
Somehow, I've made it through this thread, understood most of it, and even figured out what's in the box...but I can't figure out the clue in your reply to DD...sorry!
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
__________________
05-20-20, 10:48 PM
#148
Banned.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
Sorry, not helpful in the slightest. Could you be a smidgen less cryptic?
DD
DD
05-20-20, 10:59 PM
#149
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 2,249
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 981 Post(s)
Liked 1,844 Times
in
609 Posts
I doubt this is the right Klein thread, but I found this during my search and it is full of some real gems...
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...535-klein.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...535-klein.html
05-20-20, 11:07 PM
#150
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,395 Times
in
2,092 Posts
I doubt this is the right Klein thread, but I found this during my search and it is full of some real gems...
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...535-klein.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...535-klein.html
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
__________________