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Alternatives to MAFAC Raid. Diacomp? BMX / MTB u brake?

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Alternatives to MAFAC Raid. Diacomp? BMX / MTB u brake?

Old 05-24-20, 01:07 AM
  #1  
joebeer
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Alternatives to MAFAC Raid. Diacomp? BMX / MTB u brake?

hi. i have a 650b randonneur bike with direct mount mafac raid brakes and 50mm mudguards over 42mm tyres. brake post spacing is 75mm. have never been particularly impressed with the performance of the brakes especially when loaded for touring or towing a trailer. in the wet they are just dangerous. i know loads of people love these brakes and say the performance is excellent but i i cant see how it ever can be when the arms themselves have so much flex. as soon as the pads contact the rim most additional force looks to go into upper arm flex (yes i have fitted coolstop pads and played with straddle height and toe in) . i am 14 stone and often ride quite heavily loaded. (4 panniers and /or kids trailer) so they are having to work quite hard but are just not up to the job.
the bushings are now really worn on these and they have developed a lot of slop and play which means they work even less well and are squealing a lot. . i am looking to replace them but dont want to spend too much money unless i know i can get the performance better. (cant afford compass or paul).
does anyone know if the new diacomp gran compe or older 750 can have its backing plate removed fir direct mounting on brake posts? also what is the pivot spacing? both these look to have less flexible arms than the mafac.
other thing i was looking at was old shimano xt mtb u brakes or bmx u brakes. are either of these compatible with standard centrepull studs built for mafac raids? (75mm spacing and 50mm mudguards) could find very little info on standard drop or post spacing for bmx or retro mtb. (i remember an early 90s GT mountainbike i had with u brakes having quite good brake performance)
if i cant find a suitable upgrade for the mafacs then i may opt to get the studs removed and have some canti posts added instead. this would be an expensive faff but i allready have some suitable brakes that i know would work.
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Old 05-24-20, 06:25 AM
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Paul Components makes a sturdy replacement for the MAFAC brake:


https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/compon...-brakes/racer/
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Old 05-24-20, 06:33 AM
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i did look at those but they cost a fair bit more than i wanted to spend
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Old 05-24-20, 10:27 AM
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Magura HS-33 hydraulic rim brakes are amazingly powerful. These folks have an exceptional price: https://www.bike-components.de/en/Ma...-Brake-p36410/ Kool-Stop make replacement pads
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Old 05-24-20, 01:03 PM
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yes thats prob what i i would replace them with. i have a spare set. allthogh it still involves removing the old mafac brake posts (mounted above the rim for the centrepull pivots) and brazing on a set of standard canti posts. cant see a way i could mount the hs33 with the weird brake post positioning designed for the centrepulls.

what im really looking for is a way to get good braking power without shelling out for Paul racers or having mess with the frame and have all the faff of repainting. thats why i started looking at bmx and mtb u brakes but i cant find any info on compatibility
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Old 05-24-20, 03:33 PM
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Are the studs for U-brakes in the same locations as those for the Mafac brakes? To me it looks like the Mafac studs are higher on the fork.

Cheers
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Old 05-24-20, 03:45 PM
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this is what im trying to find out. a lot of internet searching has turned up nothing so far.
ive got the stud placement dimensions for various vintage and modern centrepulls but cant find similar info for bmx or vintage mtb to compare
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Old 05-24-20, 07:20 PM
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The Paul Racer is NOT a bolt-on replacement for a MAFAC Raid for two important reasons: 1. The Paul Racer fits on larger cantilever studs (obviously in a different position than with cantis) so it will not fit on a centerpull stud, and 2. the Paul Racer is unlikely to have the correct reach. It is 57-72mm versus 66-80mm for a Raid. Further reading: https://www.renehersecycles.com/comp...erpull-brakes/

I am not sure about U-brakes but there are so many options it might be hard to figure out.

With that said, you are lucky to have braze-on Raids on your bike. They are considered one of the best brakes ever made for wide tires. In my opinion it would be quite a shame to cut off the braze-ons only to replace them with an inferior brake. If your pivots are sloppy, you are lucky once again as Rene Herse sells a complete hardware kit to refurbish your brakes. If you don't want to buy the whole thing (it is shockingly expensive, like nearly everything they sell...) they also offer the bushings and thrust washers separately. https://www.renehersecycles.com/prod...onents/brakes/

Pivots with excessive slop will ruin any brake. Please don't dismiss the Raids until you've tried them in good/refurbished condition.

Last edited by FastJake; 05-24-20 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 05-24-20, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by joebeer
this is what im trying to find out. a lot of internet searching has turned up nothing so far.
ive got the stud placement dimensions for various vintage and modern centrepulls but cant find similar info for bmx or vintage mtb to compare
They're different locations and thus not interchangeable.

Cheers
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Old 05-25-20, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by FastJake
The Paul Racer is NOT a bolt-on replacement for a MAFAC Raid for two important reasons: 1. The Paul Racer fits on larger cantilever studs (obviously in a different position than with cantis) so it will not fit on a centerpull stud, and 2. the Paul Racer is unlikely to have the correct reach. It is 57-72mm versus 66-80mm for a Raid. Further reading:

I am not sure about U-brakes but there are so many options it might be hard to figure out.

With that said, you are lucky to have braze-on Raids on your bike. They are considered one of the best brakes ever made for wide tires. In my opinion it would be quite a shame to cut off the braze-ons only to replace them with an inferior brake.

Pivots with excessive slop will ruin any brake. Please don't dismiss the Raids until you've tried them in good/refurbished condition.
thanks very much for the info. i didnt want to spend as much as the paul racers anyway and i had spotted from the photos that the wide tyres and mudguards would have problems with clearance.

thanks for the tips on the pivot bushings and hardware. i would be willing to try this as i can allways sell the raids as a resored set and hopefully get my money back if it doesnt work out.
its interesting to see that rene herse have opted for slightly thicker arms on their updated copy. i share their opinion that the slimness has come at the price of some significant flex.
as you said though it is a shocking price to have to pay for 4 brass bushings and a bag of washers.
have you any experience with the new diacompe gran compe centrepulls or the upgraded velo orange version? are these compatible with the raid studs? they would still work out cheaper than the raid hardware and would be a lot less work and again have thicker arms.

also just wanted to assure you that i i wasnt thinking of hacking up any nice pieces of bike history. the bike is custom frame that my late father had built about 10 years ago. its a sort of early prototype of the now very popular Gravel /Advebture Touring bike genre. its similar to an early french randonneur but with higher trail. eyelets for a proper rear rack and 130mm rear hub spacing. its built up with a mix of 90s XT mountainbike components and velo orange touring parts and the mafac raid brakes. its used as my daily cargo / school run (with weehoo trailer) as well as for some long wild camping tours. its never ridden unloaded so braking has allways been an issue.


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Old 05-25-20, 01:12 AM
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also just a thought on levers.
is there any performance gains to be got through using the mafac levers? the bike is currently running modern tectro aero drops designed for duel pivot side pulls. i have a set of old drilled mafac levers but the hoods dont look to be as comfortable as the tectros so i wouldnt want to swap them out unless i could get a significant gain. cant see much differance in pivot position but its hard to measure accurately.
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Old 05-25-20, 06:50 AM
  #12  
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I don’t know if he is the most knowledgeable but gugie definitely has The corner on the Mafac raid market. I assume that he can help you answer whatever question you have.

Are you in Ireland?
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Old 05-25-20, 10:19 AM
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im in north devon, england. i have emailed sven cycles which seems to be the rene herse/ compass uk distributer to see if they stock the raid rebuild kit.
maybe i should give them another chance with upgraded hardware. there is a lot of slop now and they were not perfect when i i inherited the bike. still worried about the amount if arm flex but i know these brakes are very popular and most people who run them are big fans. just not seen it myself yet
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Old 05-25-20, 05:13 PM
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jeez. rene herse really are jokers with their prices. they have a mafac raid straddle cable (which is just a totally bog standard gear shifter cable with 4 and a half feet cut off) for $19.
feels crazy to be shelling out £150 for a bag of washers but its looking to be the simplest and cheapest option overall. luckily ive got a couple of spare gear cables in the workshop so the bill wont be too bad overall!

Last edited by joebeer; 05-25-20 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 05-25-20, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by joebeer
feels crazy to be shelling out £150 for a bag of washers but its looking to be the simplest and cheapest option overall.
They sell the washers and bushings separately. I'm guessing you don't need the whole kit. Or is that the cost for just those two parts??
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