foos

Hi C&V folks! I’ve been lurking for about a year and been reading as much as possible on the forum, learning a LOT. I’m getting to a point where I’d love some advice if you have any.

About a year ago, I picked up a 1986 Centurion Le Mans RS, with all original components. Aside from cleaning it up, redoing the cabling, putting on a new chain, seat, pedals (shimano m324 spd/platform pedals), and tires (28 mm continental gatorskin), all the parts are still original:

araya rims / suzu hub
shimano 13-24 6 speed freewheel
shimano light action derailleurs
sugino GP-130 crankset with 52/42 chainrings
Dia Compe single-pivot brakes

I really love the bike. After a year with this setup, I’ve been riding more and more and reading this forum more and more, and I’ve been thinking of maximizing this bike for my uses. I like going on longish rides, and I’m hoping to do a century this summer. I’m never going to be a “hammerhead” though I don’t mind making some tweaks to get better performance out of the bike. I also like the DT shifters but have already had a few experiences that made me think it’d be safer to have either bar-end shifters or STI. After weighing the pros and cons, and after drooling over the bikes on this thread --

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...STI-s-or-Ergos

-- I’ve decided to go STI. 7-speed brifters seem impossible to find for any reasonable price… I did find a decent deal on a pair of shimano 2300 2x8 brifters, which are being shipped now. Based on what I’ve read, I need to pick up a wheelset with an 8-speed shimano cassette. I’m pretty sure I can stick with the same crankset/chainrings and derailleurs. Is this true? If so, any advice on where to get the new parts?

1. Wheelset: will I see much of a performance boost from my arayas if I budget $100 - $150 for the pair? I’d like something durable, though wouldn’t complain if they weigh less than my original rims. I weigh about 150 and I’m thinking 32H is a good choice for century riding. Niagara has a $150 Mavic A319 32H Tiagra set. Thoughts/suggestions?
2. 8-speed Cassette?
3. Cable stops. I know I need some curved ones.
4. Anything else? I’m also thinking of moving to dual-pivot brakes. Interested if anyone knows of a good deal.
5. Also, the bike has a bunch of scratches (though no rust) that I’d like to touch up. The bike is red/white. For those centurion experts (RobbieTunes?), any suggestions for a good brand/color nail polish that matches the red well?

I tried to make this as detailed as possible. Any help would be most appreciated. Keep in mind that, as a newbie, I can't PM. If you PM me and are willing, please send me your email address. Thanks!!

foos

Alan Edwards

You are going to need a set of cable adjusters that go where your DT shifters go now. Look on Ebaa under "sti adjusters". As for wheels the old ones are probably going to wieght less than the new ones, new rims are going for more aero and not less material. 8spd cassettes are cheap, you can't go with a larger cog than 26 or 28, check your RD. If you have a freewheel with a 6spd 14-28 or 13-24, you can get an 11-26 or 11-28 8spd. Last I looked you could get a set of Cannondale short reach brakes for 25$ on fleebay.

Alan Edwards

Forgot to say I did this with my 79' Shogun except I went 10spd but DT index shifters. My Schwinn will be brifters, not finished yet.

Kuotient

I converted my Ironman Expert this winter (you can check it out in my sig). Although I fully converted mine to Shimano 600/Ultegra (tricolor).

For the cable stops, I just eBayd "downtube cable stops" and there are plenty there.

You're right that you'll need a new wheel/hub to go from a freewheel to a cassette. Either swap out the freewheel hub for a freehub, or get an entire new wheel/set entirely. If you to go as low as 11T, you'll need to get a more modern "compact" freehub, as I learned. 11T would not fit on my 600/Ultegra hub, and I didn't feel like shaving stuff off my hub just to make it fit. You also mention you're not going to be a hammerhead, so I'm pretty sure you'd almost never touch that 11T unless you're on a steep downhill and wanna go even faster....

Like Alan said, you'll have to check the specific rear derailleur model to see if it can accommodate 8 speeds. 26 or 28T will typically be the max as he mentioned as well. You shouldn't have to touch anything with the front derailleur or crankset.

Something important with installing a 8/9/10sp-capable freehub is the rear frame spacing. Your Le Mans RS's dropouts will be spaced at 126mm, because that's the O.L.D. (over locknut dimension) of the freewheel hub. Freehubs (excluding 7sp freehubs) have a 130mm O.L.D. You could get by without respacing your frame, but it would just mean putting on and taking off your rear wheel will be a bit more of a struggle, and your rear wheel tracking may not be perfectly centered. Any good bike shop will respace your frame (also known as cold setting) and check for alignment, but I wouldn't suggest watching the process =P It's basically taking a long 2x4 and prying at your frame, using the seat tube as leverage, then checking measurements, and repeat.

Hope the conversion goes well! I find the best benefit to be when I'm climbing hills.

Barchettaman

Foos, I would suggest if you are happy with DT shifters then just swap out the crankset for a compact (50/36 or 50/34).

Oops - just read you've bought the STIs - well, go with a compact crank anyway. Best thing I ever did as a solo rider.

foos

Thanks Alan! I'm going to settle for a 13-26T, which I'm sure my derailleur can handle (as Kuotient says below, I probably won't ever use an 11T cog). The cannondale tip is a good one -- there seem to be plenty of those.

Nice. I was skeptical of brifters for a long time, but I was won over by the conversion thread on this forum. I think if I were to set up a touring bike, I'd stick with bar end shifters, just because they're serviceable on the road... I'm hoping not to be disappointed by the 2300 brifters, as indexing problems would not be fun. This set was the right price for me, but I've seen somewhat mixed reviews.

Thanks for the helpful tips! I haven't seen a forum member here who didn't love his/her Ironman. I'm holding onto all of the original components for the le mans. I figure if I happen to stumble across the right deal on an ironman one day, I might have to grab it, then transfer all of my components over. Then restore the le mans to original specs and sell it That's one reason why I might hold off on cold setting it to get to 130 mm spacing (I'll just grin and bear the squeeze into 126 for now).


The compact crank is a really good suggestion. I've seen steady improvement on flats, but hills are my nemesis, and a smaller chainring in front could help. I might do this swap down the line (though I'm going to keep as tight a budget as possible for this current upgrade).

Any thoughts about the wheelset? Will that $150 mavic set I linked to be any better than my stock araya wheels?

sharpsandflatts

it should be noted that you don't necessarily have to upgrade your wheels if you don't want to. if you put a shimano 7 speed freewheel on there, it will index fine with your 8 speed sti's, just with one extra click. the spacing between cogs on 7 speed & 8 speed are functionally identical. i've run this set up on a couple of bikes with no ill effects.

foos

I had heard that the difference in spacing was 4.8 vs. 5.0mm and that plenty of people have run these without a problem. So, the question for me is whether new wheels bring an improvement.

Alan Edwards

If you've got the bucks new wheels are always fun, but you don't have to right away. Look for a set of used wheels, just picked up a set of Mavic Heliums from 96' for 160$ 1500 grams. Your wheels will probably weigh less then new ones. If you want 8spd you will have to get the new wheels. Try out the brifters first and than catch a deal wheels later.

Puget Pounder

+1 get a 7 speed Sun Race freewheel for about $10 and try it out first. Wheels can set you back a little bit and you can often find used bikes with nice wheels to get the most bang for your buck.

EddyR

Here is a 1987 Ironman that I just finished today. Going STI can be expensive unless you have the parts on hand or fall into some good deals. I picked up this Ironman master a few months ago and then a few items came along that helped me go to STI with out breaking the bank. I had the 8 speed STI shifters from another project.The wheels came along for $40 so I bought a new chain, 8 speed cassette. Went for a four mile ride this afternoon and stopped a few times and made adjustments to get it all dialed in.It is like riding one of my more modern STI bikes that I will now get rid of. I did coldset the frame to make it easy to change the rear wheel.The old 600 rear dérailleur did work but I bought a mid range so I could use a large 30 tooth gear in the cassette.
Ed

SteakKnifeSally

I converted my 86 Centurian Elite RS to 9 speed Ergos shifting an ultegra rear d through a shiftmate, and I love it.

However, my 86 centurion used the proprietary shimano downtube shifter bosses. They don't fit the standard downtube cable adjusters without modification. The proprietary cable adjusters are rarer than hen's teeth, so I modified the standard cable adjusters with my trusty dremel tool. The screw that secures the adjusters is not quite the same threading as the proprietary bosses, but works with a little extra torque.

The bosses aren't a real problem if you know about them, but they will throw a kink in your plans if they are there when you pull your downtube shifters.

EddyR

I also had to modify the down tube adjusters also as I had these levers on a Cannondale befor mounting them on this bike. I used STI R-500 shifters

Kuotient

Not sure what y'all mean about the downtube cable guides. Mine screwed right onto my Ironman just fine. But then again I guess I did buy those Ultegra ones on the Bay because they're all over the place. Dunno what the "standard downtube cable adjusters" are.

foos

This is sage advice. I'll try out the brifters first and keep an eye out for a deal on wheels. It's a pretty saturated market in Boston, but I'll be looking.

Sweet bike!

Thanks guys! I don't have a dremel handy, but hopefully I'll be able to figure this out.

My brifters have already arrived, and I just ordered the cannondale dual-pivot brakes. Just gotta pick up a new freewheel. I'm thinking I can probably get a decent performance boost on the bike by repacking the bearings (another first-time task for a newbie...). Probably should do the bottom bracket too. No idea when this was last done... (I haven't touched these since having the bike.)

foos

EddyR

Foos you should have no trouble as you are starting with new parts. Most bike shops have the down tube cable guides. Some of the guides have adjusters some do not. Either style will work fine

wrk101

Forget the new wheels. Pick up a used set instead. I rarely pay over $50 for a used set of wheels, and they usually include a cassette, tires, tubes, and QRs. Typical was a 8 speed Shimano 600 set, with tires, tubes, cassette, QR: $40. Splurged on an ebay 8 speed set up: Ultegra hubs, Ultegra cassette, QR, $80 plus shipping (so cost me $100). That's the most I have ever paid for a set of used wheels, and I have bought a lot of used wheels over the years. Wheels arrived and looked like NOS. They are on my Prologue right now.

And of course, an even better deal can come in the form of a bike. Picked up an 8 speed 105 STI bike, nice wheels, new tires, pretty close to ready to ride. Swapped it out with some seven speed DT shifter stuff I had, resold it as a DT bike (kept the STI stuff).

RobbieTunes

1. Wheelset: will I see much of a performance boost from my arayas if I budget $100 - $150 for the pair?
Yes, but not sure I'd budget that much. As posted here, you can simply get a 7-sp freewheel and use it with the 8-sp STI's, but upgrading that wheelset will make a nice difference.

I’d like something durable, though wouldn’t complain if they weigh less than my original rims. I weigh about 150 and I’m thinking 32H is a good choice for century riding. Niagara has a $150 Mavic A319 32H Tiagra set. Thoughts/suggestions?
A good used 8/9/10 freehub set often comes with a cassette for $100-$125 around here, often with tires.

2. 8-speed Cassette? I'll PM you with my email. My treat.

3. Cable stops. I know I need some curved ones.
They generally fit, and you can get the right threaded screws at Lowe's or Home Depot, Menard's, etc.

4. Anything else? I’m also thinking of moving to dual-pivot brakes. Interested if anyone knows of a good deal. Tektro's or used dual-pivot Shimano's.

The RD on that bike will not accommodate the range needed for an 8-sp; at least my '87 didn't, but if you stick to 7-sp, you should be fine. The FD will rub a bit, also, if you go 8-sp, as the geometry changed when they went to 8-sp, but I'd still use it, just let it rub on gears you never ride....

5. Also, the bike has a bunch of scratches (though no rust) that I’d like to touch up. The bike is red/white. For those centurion experts (RobbieTunes?), any suggestions for a good brand/color nail polish that matches the red well?
I'm no expert, just made many mistakes that I still remember....

First, clean the frame very well. Then, wipe it down hard with a shop rag and WD-40. You'll be surprised what comes off. Then wash it again, dry it.

Testor's Red paint pen works fine for the red. Available at many craft stores. Or the little bottle, if you're good with a brush.
With no rust, may not be necessary to "prime" the scratch with white. Sharpie makes paint pens, too, and the red is about the same. They come in medium point and fine point. The white has got a little cream in it, but I still used a Sharpie paint pen, and I was very careful, with a fine point, to mitigate the excess. After rubout with wax, very nice results.

It's tedious, but worth it. You can then take some cheap paste wax and a soft damp cloth and rub out the excess in the touch-up areas, and in doing so, wax the frame at the same time. Buff off with a soft cloth and you'll be pretty surprised how clean and bright it can get.

I recommend follow what some of the other folks said.
a-get your cable stops and STI shifters in.
b-find a 7-sp freewheel and put it on the existing wheels.
c-re-adjust the parameters of the RD.
d-ride it and see how you like it.

If so, then upgrade the calipers and possibly the wheelset as you see fit. A good used wheelset may run about the same as taking your existing wheels to get trued, tensioned, and repacked, so consider that.

The wheel quality will make the most ride difference. STI's will definitely make a shifting difference. Changing the freewheel/cassette will make a noticeable difference, especially in intermediate gears. All that stuff will make it a lot like a different bike, but with that Tange 2 frame, you are always on solid ground.

GRedner

I have the same bike - '86 LeMans RS - in blue/silver. My experience with the original brakes is that they were terrible - poor stopping power, always needing re-centering, etc. I upgraded to a pair of Shimano 105 dual-pivots and am much happier!

I will be watching this thread with some interest. I also have the original derailleurs with DT shifters, but I've been considering moving to brifters and maybe better derailleurs as well. Let us know how it turns out!

foos

I found the ones Kuotient mentioned on ebay, and they're on their way. Hopefully they'll work without any problems!

foos

I'm going to take that advice. I'm not in a tremendous rush, so I can be patient and wait for a good deal. They're a bit tough to find locally (Boston has a pretty high-priced market for parts), but I'm sure the right opportunity will present itself.


Hi RobbieTunes! I think you and wrk101 make a great point here.

Wow, that would be awesome!!

Excellent, cable stops are on their way, courtesy of ebay...

Picked up the cannondales on ebay for $23, thanks to the tip from Alan Edwards. They're rebranded Tektros, and people seem to like these. I haven't been too thrilled with the stock brakes, especially when I got stuck in the rain the other day.

Wow, thanks for the tip. I'm going to do the 7-sp for now. I'll keep my eyes open for a new RD.

Isn't that the definition of an expert?

This is just the info I needed -- thank you! I will get started on this.

This is exactly my current strategy. The wheelset can wait.

Great, thanks again!

foos

The blue/silver color is sweet! The only (minor) complaint I have about red/white is that the white is a bit yellowed (possibly due to age?). I'll definitely post pictures as this project moves along. It will probably take a few months or longer Hopefully with little interruption to actually riding it. Which I'm about to do right now.

flyfisherbob

I own the same bike in red/white. I have had the same centering problems with the brakes, and thought it was just me.

Though the Madone I ponied up for last year will be my primary road bike, I can't see ever parting with the Centurion. It was a big improvement at the time over an old Takara, and I rode it in triathlons for several years.

RobbieTunes

Welcome to the forum. Always glad to have a guy with new and old bikes, and the wisdom to appreciate them both.

foos

EDIT: Sorry, I'm editing this post because it was totally mistaken: I got off my behind and actually looked at my brakes. They are in fact recessed bolts, so the brakes I ordered are fine. I'm leaving the original post below, for reference. There are some useful links in there.
-foos


hi all -- I just saw this thread on putting dual-pivot brakes on older frames:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...C-amp-V-frames

from what I can tell, the cannondale brakes I bought on ebay (which are in transit to me) have recessed bolts, which won't match my nut-mounting setup. Here are the brakes:

https://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-CANNONDALE-C...-/370373456616

Sheldon has some methods for mounting the recessed bolt brakes on my older frame:

https://sheldonbrown.com/calipers.html#recessed

However, I don't really want to alter things... This post is mainly an FYI for people who want to do the same conversion as me. For more info, check out the thread I linked above. In the meantime, PM me with an email address if you're interested in the cannondale brakes that are currently being shipped to me.

foos