Tourist in MSN

Most airports TSA is out of sight. When I was in El Paso airport there was some construction going on, after checking my bag I then had to carry my bag to TSA because there was no conveyor belt for the airlines to use. TSA was located where you could see them. I handed my S&S case to a TSA employee and I said I would like to stand there and see if they needed to pull my bicycle out of the case in the event they needed help to re-pack it. He was surprised that there was a bike in the case. They X rayed it and he then told me they did not need to inspect it. That is the only USA airport where I have had a chance to communicate with them about my luggage.

At one other airport, I could watch them work but I do not recall which airport, it might have been O Hare in Chicago.

At a Canadian airport they wanted to inspect my Butane stove. The employee of the Canadian equivalent to TSA then told me that if they could smell fuel they had to confiscate it, she then said she smelled nothing so I could keep my stove.

I always put a note in my S&S case that if they have to take the bike out, if they have any difficulty repacking it to please contact me by cell phone or have me paged at the gate so I can help them re-pack it. They have not yet contacted me, only once have they opened up my S&S case.

ThermionicScott 

And everything is clearly labelled as potentially causing cancer, thanks to Prop 65. What isn't marked is the likelihood of the event.

Tourist in MSN

So is my bottle of hand sanitizer.

You have made your point, you will never again fly with a patch kit that has a tube of glue.

tomtomtom123

There are cases of fires and/or planes crashing from flammable material igniting. One of the more publicized crashes was what caused the big changes to the recent rules with batteries. Just because fires on planes are rare doesn't mean people should feel safe to take the risk of bringing flammable material onboard for convenience. It only take a small fuel source to burn for a short time for the fire to grow and spread to less combustible materials. When it's in the cargo hold, the fire grows unnoticed until it becomes too big to put out, which is one of the reasons why rules changed so that a limited amount of lithium batteries can only be carried on and not checked in on a passenger plane.

79pmooney

But all my glue tubes are the much darker Rema green. Until this thread I could have honestly said upon getting caught that I had never read the label and never even considered patch kit glue to be dangerous (except perhaps as an inhalant but I wouldn't mention that - even though that might make one a hazard to all in an evacuation; I'll try to remember NOT to bring the tube in carry-on.).

In my 50 years as a a hack mechanic with a messy workbench many of those years, not a single patch kit has ever exploded. Not in a black tool bag in the sun on my bike. Not in a hot trunk. I've seen wheels and frames melted by hot exhaust but have yet to see a tool bag exploded from within. Casll me naive. I'd argue that naivety in front of a judge except, sadly, I am now enlightened.

Ben

indyfabz

As kids we used to light the glue on fire for a few seconds because we thought it helped the patch work better.

conspiratemus1

You crack me up. I'm glad you're confident that you could carry a bottle of gasoline on an airplane without setting anything on fire. I'm also glad you wouldn't be allowed to. The purpose of some rules is to keep smart guys like you from endangering others.

kingston 

The TSA rules unfortunately aren't keeping you safe because by their own measurement, they are incapable of detecting the things that they prohibit. As long as it's in a <100ml bottle, passengers can get literally anything through a security checkpoint, rubber cement, gasoline, water, whatever. The TSA will never know what's in there. While I do regularly carry completely safe prohibited items that the TSA has not detected in hundreds of checkpoint screenings, I don't carry gasoline on an airplane. That was hyperbole, which I know is not always easy to detect on forum posts.

OP's main point has been that rubber cement is flammable, anything flammable is prohibited by the TSA, therefore, cyclists should not put patch kits in our checked baggage. I and many others have been doing that already for years, so my question was "is it dangerous?" I don't think it is, but I'm open to hearing evidence to the contrary.

CliffordK

Do they still have Duty Free Shops where one can buy all sorts of distilled spirits? Hand out little mini bottles of spirits on the plane?

CliffordK

staehpj1

I guess peel and stick patches are one way to avoid carrying the tiny 1/8 ounce of rubber cement, but I have not found them to work very well. Now that you guys have brought this whole thing to my attention I guess I have to decide what to do next flight. I guess the options are continue to just carry a patch kit in my tool bag on the bike as i have in the past, put the tube of cement in a TSA approved quart bag, or use slime peel and stick patches. I guess if I do the peel and stick option I could buy some real patches somewhere along the way.

CliffordK

I think Park has glueless patches that are higher rated than the Slime patches. Worth trying.

But, I think I'd go rogue and just take the regular patch kit. Secondary containment if required. Perhaps make sure I start with a new, unopened tube.

staehpj1

I have not tried the Park ones. I was gun shy after the Slime ones were a fail for me. Maybe I should give them a chance, but I am used to and trust the regular patch kits.

Probably what I will continue to do. Maybe if I think of it, I'll put the tube of glue in a quart bag in my carry on or personal item, but most likely I will forget.

seeker333

I used Park glueless patches years ago for ~6 months, nearly all of the patches I used came off/leaked. Maybe they have improved....

tomtomtom123

Edit: FAA website says flammable adhesive is not allowed in airplane baggage.
https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/more_info/?hazmat=3

Seems to be a stricter interpretation of flammable flash point than international standard.

Old:
I tried looking up the ICAO and IATA regulations but they're copyrighted and you need to pay money to see them. I found some old draft non-official proposals that were still on their website, or someone accidentally hosting an old copy on their domain.

Here is Park Tool's VP-1 MSDS.
https://www.parktool.com/assets/doc/...t/VP-1_SDS.pdf

It says:
Adhesives containing flammable liquid
UN-Number: UN1133
Hazard Class: 3
Packing Group: 2

Contains Naptha, Heptane, Octane.
Highly flammable liquid and vapor.
Highly flammable Vapors may travel to source of ignition and flash back.
Flash Point -9C/16F
Can form explosive mixtures in air if heated above flash point and/or when sprayed or atomised.


Here is the draft working document for packing instructions for UN1133, hazard class 3, Adhesives containing flammable liquids. It says passanger aircraft PI 309, cargo aircraft PI 310, combined into PI 3X1. It doesn't say how old it is, or whether or not it's become official, so this information may not be correct.
https://www.icao.int/safety/Dangerous...ole/ACF331.PDF

It says:
Single packaging is "forbidden" on passenger planes.
Combination packaging with UN-specification inner and outer packagings are probably allowed within limits, but it needs specific packing requirements, labeling, and declaration. The working document doesn't contain that information.


I found the 2013 59th edition of IATA Danger Goods Regulations through Google search. I won't post the link here since they're probably not supposed to have it publicly available. I don't know whether or not it's an official version, but it's definitely outdated, so the information may not be correct.

It says:
UN1133, Class 3, Packing 2, Adhesives containing flammable liquid:
Dangerous goods in exempted quantities-E2 section 2.6, Limited quantity- packing instructions Y341, passenger and cargo- packing instructions 353, cargo aircraft- packing instructions 364.

Somewhat similar to the ICAO working documents. It also says "Single packagings are not permitted". Only combination packaging can be considered, with various UN-specification requirements. Also has labeling and declaration requirements. There are also some other things like not packing it together with reactive materials (I guess like rubber inner tubes and tires).

The section which might be more relevant to a single tube of glue of very low quanitity for traveling could be Dangerous goods in exempted quantities (EQ)-E2 secton 2.6. In all cases it seems single packagings are not allowed. For EQ, inner packagings need an intermediate packaging that is cushioned and sealed which cannot be punctured or leak under normal conditions of transport. For dangerous liquids, the intermediate packaging needs sufficient absorbent material to absorb the entire contents of the inner packaging, cannot react to or degrade from the contents of the inner packaging, and complies with specified strength tests. It also needs a specific label and markings with the hazard classification and your name/address.

However, there is a conflicting section which says:
It's a bit confusing/ambiguous. The rest of the exemption section doesn't refer to this section. I don't know if this supersedes everything else in which case means Park Tool's glue is not allowed at all on a passenger plane from a passenger (under "exempted quantities"), or if the other sections are exemptions to this then it might mean there is a possibility to take it onboard but you'd have to fulfill all the other requirements, like packaging, labeling, and declaration requirements.



Anyway, camping stoves and fuel canisters that have contained flammable liquid fuel is described in 2.3.2.5. There are several requirements to take it onboard. One of them says must be allowed to drain for at least 1 hour, and then left uncapped for a minimum of 6 hours to allow any residual fuel to evaporate.

linus

Damn. 9/11 Terrorists really won the war. They did take away the freedoms that we had forever.

CliffordK

I found this interesting article today (although it appears to be a couple of years old).

The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them
As a test, Homeland Security officials tried to sneak guns and bombs through TSA checkpoints. They succeeded almost every time.

EXCLUSIVE: Undercover DHS Tests Find Security Failures at US Airports

Europe to ease rules on liquids aboard planes

Hard to say. I don't think we want to go back to the 1950's prior to airport security. But, I have long felt that all of these rules gave people a false sense of security.

Now, obviously TSA insiders have the inside scoop on potential security flaws, but I believe there are a few potential holes that would be hard to plug.

For one thing, the airports used to do random spot checks. But, say they frisk 1 in 10 passengers, and discover one terrorist.

The airport response was to arrest that 1 person, and continue on as normal. But, the proper response to a spot check positive would be to shut down the entire airport, empty it out. Search the entire airport, and retest EVERYONE,a process that nobody wishes to deal with.

djb

one of the last times I flew, I was told to put the matches from my kitchen kit into my carry on, as they were not supposed to be in check in, but no problem on carry on. May have been the same story with my lighter, but dont recall exactly.

Tourist in MSN

Correct, both matches and lighters in carry on. And your Li Ion batteries in carry on.

And your weapons and liquid containers larger than 100ml in checked.

I recalled reading some time back that TSA was going to allow knives under two inches again. And months later I had a small Swiss Army knife with one of those tiny blades, instead of checking it I figured they were allowed again. TSA confiscated it. Then I learned that TSA planned to allow them but the flight attendants objected and wanted to keep that rule in place, so I lost my knife because TSA decided to appease the flight attendants instead of following their proposed rule change.

I think in Canada the knife blade has to be shorter than 62mm, if I am correct on that then Canada is less stringent on sharp pointy objects than USA TSA.

djb

no idea on knife rules.

I just brought up the matches and lighter thing as a bit of a retort to being concerned about glue.
Being concerned about the letter of the law re flammable signed stuff, well, I figure that being concerned about it and having it confiscated is a gazillion times less important than worrying about being hit and killed by Ma or Pa Parker in their rented RV, in the big scheme of things...

but sure, dont take it on board, buy some patch glue at your destination. Not my plan, but hey.

Tourist in MSN

I have commented before that I will start taking a thread locker on tours, have met too many people in campsites that were missing rack bolts, etc.
https://www.truevalue.com/catalog/pr...thread-locker/

I have no clue if it is flammable. It will be in my bag of tools, thus will be checked.

Mainly my goal in determining what to have in my carry on is the stuff I will need when the airline decides that I might enjoy sleeping in an airport overnight without access to my checked bag(s). Tooth brush, toothpaste, spare shirt, etc. Fortunately every time that has happened so far has only been for one night.

djb

ya, but what will you do if you have a screw loose?
then you'll be in trouble....

pdlamb

Agreed, TSA is "security theater." I don't know how many times I've checked luggage with everything from rubber cement to aftershave in it with nary a squeak. (Also, never an incident in flight, FWIW.) Then last week they alertly caught me carrying an apple through the checkpoint.

The last hard data I recall was that the same people who can find every damn sealed water bottle were only able to detect 80-95% of the actual weapons going through the checkpoint.

Tourist in MSN

I have brought plenty of apples and bananas through TSA line, never had one confiscated yet. Are they against the rules?

Apples, I usually cored them at home and put the 8 slices into a zip lock sandwich bag to eat with my sandwich later on the plane, or to eat when I was waiting for my delayed flight to take off. Maybe slicing and coring made them look less like a weapon.

Sandwiches, I always carried the mayo in the little individual packets and added that to the sandwich later since TSA would likely deem the mayo to be a liquid.

ThermionicScott 

I have some bad news for you about that mayo: Say what? Mayonnaise is a combustible liquid? | BFL CANADA