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Are Modern Components Better?

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Are Modern Components Better?

Old 08-17-20, 04:16 PM
  #101  
iab
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
Just for the record, I'm not trolling. It's a sincere question.

And also, stiffer frames are faster and planing is BS. Now that's a troll.
No. I'd agree if the thread was titled Are Modern Components Better?*

* If you are 1 of a few hundred people in the world who can make a living racing a bike.

Otherwise, better is entirely irrelevant. Its the same as Is a Blue Bike Better? And you posted in a vintage forum. It is entirely a troll. I will grant it is a harmless troll. Whoever gets their knickers in a twist about it has some problems, but a troll nonetheless. No worries. This subject comes up on a regular basis. I'm entertained by those taking the bait. It's all good man..
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Old 08-17-20, 04:47 PM
  #102  
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A "somewhat" entertaining thread.

Kind of like the old days on "c&v" when folks would bash fixies and carbon fiber frames.

Carry on.
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Old 08-17-20, 06:03 PM
  #103  
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I didn’t race back in the day, and I don’t race now, so I’ve never quite understood the need to index performance/bikes/components to what racers might use or need. But I can tell you that when I rode the coastal route on Eroica CA in 2018 on my 70s Condor Italia, I mostly thought about how much more I would have enjoyed the ride with one of my 650b rigs with spd pedals and Campy Ergo brifters. Yeah, I guess I should turn in my C&V membership card.
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Old 08-18-20, 12:16 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by nlerner
I'm hard-pressed to think of what got worse.
It's pretty subjective but with competition, Shimano was pushed to innovate and make a solid and also a visually pleasing design. Now everything is built to a price point and frankly seem cheaply made. Even old Suntour made some good looking derailleurs that are serviceable today 40 years later. I doubt that a Tourney will last a decade with serious use. I feel like I'm giving up a friend when I strap a Suntour Cyclone to a bike I'm selling because I need it's range, capacity and reliablities....of course that may be nessitated by the idea of putting a modern derailleur on a 40 year old Pug to be unthinkable. Even I have some standards.😁
Oh and consider the can well and truly opened.
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Old 08-18-20, 07:00 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by sheddle
Bottom brackets.
Add narrow chains to list along with bottom brackets. Neither are as durable as the same components of last generation.
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Old 08-18-20, 07:26 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by nlerner
I'm hard-pressed to think of what got worse.
I'd say the availability and choice of different lightweight steel tubing has diminished somewhat. Lots of manufacturers don't make them anymore.
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Old 08-18-20, 07:55 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Cycle Tourist
It's pretty subjective but with competition, Shimano was pushed to innovate and make a solid and also a visually pleasing design. Now everything is built to a price point and frankly seem cheaply made. Even old Suntour made some good looking derailleurs that are serviceable today 40 years later. I doubt that a Tourney will last a decade with serious use. I feel like I'm giving up a friend when I strap a Suntour Cyclone to a bike I'm selling because I need it's range, capacity and reliablities....of course that may be nessitated by the idea of putting a modern derailleur on a 40 year old Pug to be unthinkable. Even I have some standards.😁
Oh and consider the can well and truly opened.
I dunno, I think Atlus M310s will last for quite a bit. Really excepting the BSO level plastic Tourneys etc, I'd expect some of the heavier consumer level stuff to last longer, just because it's intended for people who might not take meticulous care of their bikes.
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Old 08-18-20, 08:18 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by sheddle
I dunno, I think Atlus M310s will last for quite a bit. Really excepting the BSO level plastic Tourneys etc, I'd expect some of the heavier consumer level stuff to last longer, just because it's intended for people who might not take meticulous care of their bikes.
It's not bad idea to apply the 'Kalashnikov' design philosophy in situations where the end user may not have even basic maintenance tools.
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Old 08-18-20, 08:22 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam
It's not bad idea to apply the 'Kalashnikov' design philosophy in situations where the end user may not have even basic maintenance tools.
Speaking of that, the base Tourney/Skylark design is the Kalashnikov of rear mechs, being the basis for virtually every generic derailleur on earth. I'm not sure Shimano still makes a fully steel version of it, though.
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Old 08-18-20, 08:49 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
How often are you adjusting the height of your stem and why? It comes off as aggressive, but its really just confusion. I can adjust the height of my threadless stems in 3min too. I have some spacers above and below the stem. Its quite simple, but I never adjust the stem height because it fits.
Quill stems come in extremely limited lengths and angles too. Frustrating.

And if stem height adjustability is a plus for quill stems, then the inability to easily change stem length and handlebars is an equal drawback.
Actually, I adjust the height of my stem frequently. If I am just puttering around with my 16 year old daughter, I raise it a bit. If I am going to hammer the flats with friends, I slam it. Depending upon the ride, I tend to move it around a bit. I actually like it slightly higher for climbing.

Now, all my MTB's have treadless stems and I have always run lots of spacers and can easily adjust my stem height on that as well (but surprisingly only do it for specific "big" rides).

Also, for the OP, what do we call modern? I have a bike from 2000, with Ultegra components and wheels from that period. They work perfectly and the bike honestly rides just as well as my newer carbon bike (disc though are much better).

I personally find the SRAM/Shimano wireless/wired stuff to be incredible. The SRAM stuff is much easier to set up and the flexibility is great. Road bike evolution (as compared to the MTB scene) has been slow but the recent developments have been great. And this is coming from a guy that rides an old Italian steel bike.
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Old 08-18-20, 10:03 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by vespasianus
I actually like it slightly higher for climbing.
This isn’t a “modern”-related comment, but I’m back to riding single speed again and find that having the bar tops at saddle height really helps with climbing. Also seems to put hoods at a reasonable height for extended out of the saddle climbs.

Otto
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Old 08-18-20, 10:27 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by gomango
A "somewhat" entertaining thread.

Kind of like the old days on "c&v" when folks would bash fixies and carbon fiber frames.

Carry on.
I'm entertained by looking whether a logo has an open or a closed C. My bar is low.
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Old 08-18-20, 11:07 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by nlerner
..... But I can tell you that when I rode the coastal route on Eroica CA in 2018 on my 70s Condor Italia, I mostly thought about how much more I would have enjoyed the ride with one of my 650b rigs with spd pedals and Campy Ergo brifters. Yeah, I guess I should turn in my C&V membership card.
isn't suffering the whole point of L'Eroica events?
Isn't it supposed to be a re-enactment of the heroic early racers riding on crap roads on primitive bikes?

Steve in Peoria
(but I do have about 100 feet of crushed gravel on my vintage ride coming up Sept 12th, just so folks can get the right dust patina )
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Old 08-18-20, 11:09 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by ofajen
This isn’t a “modern”-related comment, but I’m back to riding single speed again and find that having the bar tops at saddle height really helps with climbing. Also seems to put hoods at a reasonable height for extended out of the saddle climbs.

Otto
Yeah, for those climbs where I just want to spin and get up and not race, I like the stem a bit higher. I never change during the ride but I do move the stem up and down. Very easy to do with a quill!
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Old 08-18-20, 12:51 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
isn't suffering the whole point of L'Eroica events?
Isn't it supposed to be a re-enactment of the heroic early racers riding on crap roads on primitive bikes?

Steve in Peoria
(but I do have about 100 feet of crushed gravel on my vintage ride coming up Sept 12th, just so folks can get the right dust patina )
Maybe for most, but hardly for all.

I know quite a few that go to look at old bikes, dress up in scratchy wool, drink various concoctions and eat a lot.

They usually combine the trip with some deep sea fishing and golfing.

In general, they just want to get out of the house for a few days and hang out with their old racing buddies.

They are no longer the "suffering" types.
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Old 08-18-20, 01:23 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by gomango
Maybe for most, but hardly for all.

I know quite a few that go to look at old bikes, dress up in scratchy wool, drink various concoctions and eat a lot.

They usually combine the trip with some deep sea fishing and golfing.

In general, they just want to get out of the house for a few days and hang out with their old racing buddies.

They are no longer the "suffering" types.
I'm definitely a fan of looking at old bikes and wearing wool, but have never felt the urge to link it with riding crappy roads and suffering.
Dale's Classic Rendezvous gatherings have been a good way to satisfy those desires, with the added fun of seminars. It's a lot of work to organize, though, so I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to attend two of them.





and how often do you get to hear Dave Moulton tell stories and sing songs?


smaller scale gatherings like IAB's spring ride are fun too... preferably without snow, though.


John Haboush's (sp?) ride last fall was fun too, and his collection of bikes was remarkable!


anyway... the L'Eroica rides are pretty cool and I wouldn't mind being a spectator or perhaps riding a beater on a short route, but for getting out one of my nice vintage bikes, a paved road is a great way to go.

Steve in Peoria
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Old 08-18-20, 02:20 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by vespasianus
Actually, I adjust the height of my stem frequently. If I am just puttering around with my 16 year old daughter, I raise it a bit. If I am going to hammer the flats with friends, I slam it. Depending upon the ride, I tend to move it around a bit. I actually like it slightly higher for climbing.
Interesting. I really figured that fit is fit is fit and if a bike fits, then itl can be comfortably ridden slow or fast using the same setup. I cut my cables to fit perfectly with the setup that works for me, so I guess if I were to frequently change the stem height, I would need to cable the bike when the stem is high.
Huh, hadnt thought about this before.
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Old 08-18-20, 02:26 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Cycle Tourist
I doubt that a Tourney will last a decade with serious use.
The lowest level RDs from 40 years ago were also terrible and im pretty sure lasting a decade with serious use would have been a challenge then too.
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Old 08-18-20, 02:29 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
I'm definitely a fan of looking at old bikes and wearing wool, but have never felt the urge to link it with riding crappy roads and suffering.
Dale's Classic Rendezvous gatherings have been a good way to satisfy those desires, with the added fun of seminars. It's a lot of work to organize, though, so I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to attend two of them.





and how often do you get to hear Dave Moulton tell stories and sing songs?


smaller scale gatherings like IAB's spring ride are fun too... preferably without snow, though.


John Haboush's (sp?) ride last fall was fun too, and his collection of bikes was remarkable!


anyway... the L'Eroica rides are pretty cool and I wouldn't mind being a spectator or perhaps riding a beater on a short route, but for getting out one of my nice vintage bikes, a paved road is a great way to go.

Steve in Peoria

Those events look fantastic.

I have a couple of bikes that folks might like to look at and discuss.

After multiple knee surgeries, RA and thyroid issues, my body just won't hammer like it used to, but I still ride quite a bit.

Those events, combined with some moderate rides, are just up my alley.
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Old 08-18-20, 02:34 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by JaccoW
I'd say the availability and choice of different lightweight steel tubing has diminished somewhat. Lots of manufacturers don't make them anymore.
Reynolds, Tange, Columbus, Kaisei, Dedacciai, VariWall, and Nova all have tubing that varies in butt length, diameter, and gauge.
The product catalogs from Reynolds and Columbus are so extensive that its tough to keep all the options straight since each model has sub-models. Reynolds 853 has multiple variations. Columbus Zona has multiple variations and the stays have endless bend options. etc etc.
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Old 08-18-20, 02:54 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
The lowest level RDs from 40 years ago were also terrible and im pretty sure lasting a decade with serious use would have been a challenge then too.
Not sure if the Suntour Hero or the plastic Simplex are bottom feeders but they have to be pretty close. I've cleaned up both and reused them and they work fine. They're from the 70's! My point is they've seen some use and abuse and still work. Some new low and middle end stuff made from stamped steel will take very little punishment without becoming badly bent. Granted that same weakness means you can bend them back into alignment but that's not my idea of robust and it's not what I can to have on my daily driver.
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Old 08-18-20, 03:57 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Cycle Tourist
Some new low and middle end stuff made from stamped steel will take very little punishment without becoming badly bent.
What is a "new middle end derailleur made from stamped steel"? Sometimes the tension cage plates are still made from stamped steel, but the main body of knuckles and parallelogram is just about always made out of fancily-shaped aluminum nowadays at least.

For the most part, parts that still use stamped steel for the knuckles are sub-catalog stuff intended for Walmart. And adjusted for inflation, those are made to a far lower price point than old low-end SunTour stuff like Honor or Hero, and exist within a space that's mostly separate from the cycling enthusiast market.
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Old 08-18-20, 06:03 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Interesting. I really figured that fit is fit is fit and if a bike fits, then itl can be comfortably ridden slow or fast using the same setup. I cut my cables to fit perfectly with the setup that works for me, so I guess if I were to frequently change the stem height, I would need to cable the bike when the stem is high.
Huh, hadnt thought about this before.
I guess I should learn to be content and find the perfect one set up but as I get older, I find I want more flexibility (in many ways!) - and don't care much about looks anymore.
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Old 08-18-20, 08:30 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel
Yes. Unequivocally.

This ... honestly its not even a contest. the first bike I built with a 2x10 drive train has almost totally spoiled me to other drive trains . I still like my 3x9 and it is certainly robust but my 2x10 and 2x11 both shift smoother and work better in all respects.
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Old 08-18-20, 08:37 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by SamSpade1941
This ... honestly its not even a contest. the first bike I built with a 2x10 drive train has almost totally spoiled me to other drive trains . I still like my 3x9 and it is certainly robust but my 2x10 and 2x11 both shift smoother and work better in all respects.
Wait, but when someone grabs that bike for cheap from the thrift store in 2050, they’ll complain that the derailleurs don’t work for sh*t anymore!
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