Printworthy

Hello All:
New to the Forum here, But I have learned a lot just reading.
I have restored my college bike, a 72 Grand Prix (Holland serial number) on sort of a budget using finds on ebay ( a used Brooks B-17, Cotter-Less Crank, Sealed Shimano BB, Orig decals, etc) and am thinking about going from the Steel 27 1-1/4 to 700c wheelset.
I have a stock Normandy 5spd rear freewheel and 122mm spacing in the rear. Would anyone have any specific advice on what I should be looking for? I understand the brake reach issue and think my stock Wienmans (center pulls) will adjust. What I am unsure of is buying the wrong rear - freewheel vs cassette and everything not fitting up right? Should I buy wheels and put my old freewheel on? or be looking for something with 5 gears already on? Many thanks for help.

BTW: Before you say, it is not worth investing in....this one has sentimental value. Long distance college rides with friends now passed - this bike is in alot of treasured pics and I want to keep it on the road.

verktyg 

Welcome...

For starters, DON'T mess with steel rims! 700c steel rims were rare in the US but just in case, make sure to get alloy rims.

120mm OLN (Over Lock Nut) was the defacto standard width for 5 speed hubs but 122mm OLN was the French standard width for 5 speed hubs which includes your Normandy Sport hubs. 2mm is not a significant difference. The French standard for front hubs was 96mm vs. 100mm so you may have to spread your forks a little bit if you find some wheels with non French hubs.

120mm/122mm 700c alloy wheels for 5 speed FWs are going to be hard to find these days. Check on eBay for used wheels also a while back someone was offering new 5 speed wheelsets.

700c 126mm rear wheels are more common. They were made for 6 & 7 speed FWs but you could still use a 5 speed FW on them. You'll have to spread the rear dropouts a little.

I'd recommend replacing the freewheel and chain because they are probably worn out.

If you are near a bike co-op you may find a set of usable wheels or a whole bike to cannibalize. Look in thrift shops too.

Figure on replacing all the cables and housings too.

Normally I'd suggest not spending a lot of money on a lower end bike from that era but I can understand your sentimental attachment.

good luck...

verktyg

Printworthy

Hey: Many Thanks for the great guidance. I checked the rear spacing and I can get to 126mm by just using one hand to spread a bit. I'll start with thrift shops, and perhaps local craigslist - that's a good idea.
I have about $120 bucks invested in components without the Brooks seat ( a huge indulgence ), so I am thinking I could do a bit more for the wheels ( most of the rust came off but some of the chrome is badly pitted in spots) and the steel wheels don't stop that well in the wet.
Thanks again for setting me on the right path. Say Healthy.

Lascauxcaveman 

^ What verktyg said ^

zukahn1 

A set of new or good used 126mm wheels will work fine. I would suggest you also upgrade to a modern better 8 speed chain and a better vintage or new 6/7 speed freewheel. You may need to a add a 1-2mm spacing and adjust the hub a bit. You shouldn't 3mm or more with offset which wouldn't be a big deal offsetting re-dishing a wheel 1-2 mm isn't a big deal just a couple of turns with a poke wrench on each spoke.

ThermionicScott 

Just think -- if this bike had been in continuous service, you probably would have upgraded it to 6/7-speed with aluminum rims long ago. Looking forward to seeing it when you're able to post pics.

SurferRosa

You know what I'd do if it were me and I were sentimental ...

I'd spread that frame 4mm using a threaded bolt as shown on youtube. And either use new 700c rims built up on vintage hubs or source a vintage 700c wheelset and add either a 6- or 7-speed freewheel.

merziac

Welcome aboard, glad you found us, you're in the right place.

We love this sort of thing, no worries on the sentimental tack and the Brooks is exactly what this needs, nothing else will do.

Agree with all so far, make it so.

branko_76 

It's definitely worth saving and restoring. I've restored several Grand Prix's from the early to mid 1970's models with various levels of modification. One of them is completely stock. Every component was thoroughly cleaned and reinstalled with the exception of cables, tires and bar tape.

Alloy rims are a definite improvement and can be laced to your current Normandy hubs so you can keep the factory spacing of the rear stays as well as the original freewheel. The high flange Normandy hubs are also very cool looking once polished.

sykerocker 

A slight side tangent on your post: You say your Grand Prix is a Holland-built model. Did the original wheels come with quick release hubs, or are they bolt on?

The reason I'm asking is that I've got a red '72 Grand Prix, Dutch built with bolt-on wheels, and the rear is a flip-flop hub. Now, when I worked in western PA I'd never seen a Grand Prix like that, but a much longer term Richmond resident buddy of mine who's been collecting for decades says they were pretty common down here. To the point that he used to buy them expressly to part them out for the hubs.

I always figured they were a Bike Boom desperation move (to get stock to the dealers) and regional distribution.

desconhecido 

If you're interested in buying new already built wheels, check velomine.com for their 700c wheels with Sun CR 18 or Sun M13 rims. I don't know anything about the joytech hubs but I'd bet they're not a bad substitute for the Normandy Sport hubs on the GP other than they're low flange. My wag is that these wheels probably come from QBP, but that's a guess. Velomine.com, as far a I know has a good reputation. I bought a Soma Stanyon frame from them a couple years ago and was very satisfied. When I called them on the phone, a real person who knew what I was talking about answered the phone. Probably pay to call them before ordering anything to figure out what their current business status is considering everything as it is today.

branko_76 

The SUN CR 18 rims are an excellent choice for the Grand Prix. I also use the SUN M13 for my lighter weight bikes.

branko_76 

I completely agree. If the bike is in decent shape, then replacing the steel rims with alloy will be the most sensible upgrade. The remainder of the components will perform well if cleaned, lubricated and adjusted properly.

branko_76 

How did you install the BB into the 26 tpi shell?

Bad Lag

I also had a 1972 Grand Prix that was made in Holland. Mine was white and later got repainted blue (by me, using Preval). I also switched from 27 1/4" to 700C.

Do it! The Weinmanns will work.

rickpaulos

As to brake reach. 700c rims are about 1/4" smaller in diameter. The exact amount varys across brands/models of rims. Some have taller side walls than others so it's not an exact amount. If there is room, you can adjust the brake pads down that far. If it's really close, you can file out the slots 1 or 2 mm. The Weinman center pull brakes came in 2 common sizes. 510 and 750. That's 51mm or 75mm from the mounting bolt to the center of the brake pad slot. If your brake pads can't be adjusted down enough, swap to the longer size. Most Gran(d) Prix's came with 510s. Schwinn used the same brakes (with different labels) so there are plenty around. Dia compe made copies (under license) that look pretty similar. Some other brands/models had a keyed slot for the mounting bolt that could be adjusted for about 5 or 6mm extra reach.

The Gran(d) Prix was a very big seller for Raleigh. I assembled and sold many in the day. We got them from England, Ireland and the Netherlands. They also made them in Canada and Oklahoma. Some were decaled Grand Prix, some were Gran Prix. Even though they were all equipped the same, we could easily tell the difference between countries. The finish quality varied quite a bit. Also for some years, only those made in England had the Nottingham on the head badge. The others had a bar.

bwilli88 

Here is my 74 with original wheels
DSC00929 by Bwilli88, on Flickr
with 700Cx32mm.
DSC06588 by Bwilli88, on Flickr

big chainring 

Another way to obtain wheels is to buy a whole bike that has wheels you can use. Part out the bike and sell the frame, you probably will come out money ahead plus the wheels.

JohnDThompson 

A Holland-built Raleigh should be standard English thread. AFAIK, only the Nottingham-built Raleighs used the 26tpi shells.

sykerocker 

Just reuse the original cups, and come up with a spindle with the same internal spacing.

bwilli88 

My bike above is a Gazelle built bike.

noglider 

I agree about spreading the frame. It's a worthwhile investment. I used the threaded rod most recently, and it didn't work out so well. Apparently the stays are of different stiffnesses. The frame is bent to the right side. I will correct it using the older cruder method of 2x4's.

branko_76 

I just checked a salvaged BB I have from a damaged Holland made Grand Prix and you are correct, it's standard English threading.

afaik, 26tpi threading only applies to the lower end Raleighs. Super Course and above have standard English threads

Printworthy

Many thanks. I keep learning new things about this bike!

madpogue 

We picked up a Gazelle-made Grand Prix, '73-ish, that a PO had had converted to a SS/fixie by a local bike shop, modern driveline/wheelset, original brakes/steering. The standard threaded BB shell would explain why it made a good candidate for such. Didn't occur to me until now that its Nottingham counterpart would probably have been spared such a treatment. And yes, the OEM brakes reach(ed) the 700C rims just fine.