A decade of dopers.........
10-15-12, 03:46 AM
#101
out walking the earth
I just came across this gem from August:
Lance Armstrong: Was He Doping or Experimenting with Science?
https://ideas.time.com/2012/08/27/lan...#ixzz29KSAP6WG
Lance Armstrong: Was He Doping or Experimenting with Science?
https://ideas.time.com/2012/08/27/lan...#ixzz29KSAP6WG
10-15-12, 04:35 AM
#102
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I guess I'm biased but I believe that Cadel was clean simply because of the way he suffered. The drugs helped riders recover and the day after an impossible mountain top finnish they were at it again the next day.
Anthony
Anthony
10-15-12, 05:21 AM
#104
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If you draw the line around simply the doping, I agree with Pcad's thesis completely. He did what he had to do and leveled the playing field.
However, what really surprised me was about the USADA report was just how vindictive and ruthless Armstrong was (and likely still is) to anyone who threatened to shatter his glass house. We all know about Frankie and Betsy Andreau (whom I probably feel worst for), Emma O'Riley, Landis, Hamilton, and others from the past. But hearing that he was threatening Levi last year in retaliation against his testimony (which undoubtedly cost him Levi his job with RadioShack) and the way he routinely thought nothing of destroying those who crossed his path just to preserve his ill gotten gains really disturbed me. No one is vilifying Armstrong in the media, his actions and threats against those who were trying to tell the truth reveal his true colors. These were guys who fought hard for him in each Tour, sacrificing their own ambitions and ultimately selling their souls to his demands. When the time came for them to own up to their own transgressions Armstrong did everything he could to burn them quickly and violently. He could have come out and owned up to things, kept his friends and teammates from having to be in this position. Instead he branded them as liars and did everything in his power to destroy them. His actions really disgust me.
I'm no fan of Lance, but there are two products he's a part owner in which I love to death: Honey Stinger my favorite on bike food and Mellow Johnnys my favorite bike shop in the world. At first when I was hashing this out in my head I could live with it. He doped in an age of dopers, no big deal. However, after reading the USADA report and hearing about the sheer malevolence he exudes, I just don't want to support anyone like that.
However, what really surprised me was about the USADA report was just how vindictive and ruthless Armstrong was (and likely still is) to anyone who threatened to shatter his glass house. We all know about Frankie and Betsy Andreau (whom I probably feel worst for), Emma O'Riley, Landis, Hamilton, and others from the past. But hearing that he was threatening Levi last year in retaliation against his testimony (which undoubtedly cost him Levi his job with RadioShack) and the way he routinely thought nothing of destroying those who crossed his path just to preserve his ill gotten gains really disturbed me. No one is vilifying Armstrong in the media, his actions and threats against those who were trying to tell the truth reveal his true colors. These were guys who fought hard for him in each Tour, sacrificing their own ambitions and ultimately selling their souls to his demands. When the time came for them to own up to their own transgressions Armstrong did everything he could to burn them quickly and violently. He could have come out and owned up to things, kept his friends and teammates from having to be in this position. Instead he branded them as liars and did everything in his power to destroy them. His actions really disgust me.
I'm no fan of Lance, but there are two products he's a part owner in which I love to death: Honey Stinger my favorite on bike food and Mellow Johnnys my favorite bike shop in the world. At first when I was hashing this out in my head I could live with it. He doped in an age of dopers, no big deal. However, after reading the USADA report and hearing about the sheer malevolence he exudes, I just don't want to support anyone like that.
I don't have a ton of sympathy for people that take something they know is wrong, and then are disillusioned when the people that hired them try to protect themselves. That does not make it right. But everyone was in the program with eyes wide open.
As Don Corelone said. ,"You can't ever leave the family."
10-15-12, 10:12 AM
#105
I'm so much cooler online
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I had never heard of "Wide-eyed and Legless".
In searching for info on it, I turned up an interesting cycling reading list:
50-41 https://www.cyclesportmag.com/feature...s-of-all-time/
40-31 https://www.cyclesportmag.com/feature...ll-time-40-31/
30-21 https://www.cyclesportmag.com/feature...ll-time-30-21/
20-11 https://www.cyclesportmag.com/feature...ll-time-20-11/
10-6 https://www.cyclesportmag.com/feature...all-time-10-6/
5-1 https://www.cyclesportmag.com/feature...-all-time-1-5/
In searching for info on it, I turned up an interesting cycling reading list:
50-41 https://www.cyclesportmag.com/feature...s-of-all-time/
40-31 https://www.cyclesportmag.com/feature...ll-time-40-31/
30-21 https://www.cyclesportmag.com/feature...ll-time-30-21/
20-11 https://www.cyclesportmag.com/feature...ll-time-20-11/
10-6 https://www.cyclesportmag.com/feature...all-time-10-6/
5-1 https://www.cyclesportmag.com/feature...-all-time-1-5/
10-15-12, 01:13 PM
#106
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Also tatics make a difference. Only Delgado was close enough to pass Lemond even if he totally blew up. That allows for risk taking. And it looks like Delgado did not have a great final TT, which allows even more risk by Lemond without consequence.
10-16-12, 05:12 AM
#107
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K
So let's pick Honey Stinger, a product I also enjoy mostly because, as the package says I was addicted to stroopwafels when I was in Europe like Lance says. You'd walk away from a product that works for you merely because of the picture on the package and maybe settle for something less effective.
Okey dokey.
Btw when this happens you do not hurt Lance. You hurt the single Mom trying to make ends meet making this stuff evey day, day after day. Lance already has his money.
Do you have any Nike products in your home?
Lol...I have a stroopwafel maker and was making my own before Honey Stinger started their line.
If you draw the line around simply the doping, I agree with Pcad's thesis completely. He did what he had to do and leveled the playing field.
However, what really surprised me was about the USADA report was just how vindictive and ruthless Armstrong was (and likely still is) to anyone who threatened to shatter his glass house. We all know about Frankie and Betsy Andreau (whom I probably feel worst for), Emma O'Riley, Landis, Hamilton, and others from the past. But hearing that he was threatening Levi last year in retaliation against his testimony (which undoubtedly cost him Levi his job with RadioShack) and the way he routinely thought nothing of destroying those who crossed his path just to preserve his ill gotten gains really disturbed me. No one is vilifying Armstrong in the media, his actions and threats against those who were trying to tell the truth reveal his true colors. These were guys who fought hard for him in each Tour, sacrificing their own ambitions and ultimately selling their souls to his demands. When the time came for them to own up to their own transgressions Armstrong did everything he could to burn them quickly and violently. He could have come out and owned up to things, kept his friends and teammates from having to be in this position. Instead he branded them as liars and did everything in his power to destroy them. His actions really disgust me.
I'm no fan of Lance, but there are two products he's a part owner in which I love to death: Honey Stinger my favorite on bike food and Mellow Johnnys my favorite bike shop in the world. At first when I was hashing this out in my head I could live with it. He doped in an age of dopers, no big deal. However, after reading the USADA report and hearing about the sheer malevolence he exudes, I just don't want to support anyone like that.
However, what really surprised me was about the USADA report was just how vindictive and ruthless Armstrong was (and likely still is) to anyone who threatened to shatter his glass house. We all know about Frankie and Betsy Andreau (whom I probably feel worst for), Emma O'Riley, Landis, Hamilton, and others from the past. But hearing that he was threatening Levi last year in retaliation against his testimony (which undoubtedly cost him Levi his job with RadioShack) and the way he routinely thought nothing of destroying those who crossed his path just to preserve his ill gotten gains really disturbed me. No one is vilifying Armstrong in the media, his actions and threats against those who were trying to tell the truth reveal his true colors. These were guys who fought hard for him in each Tour, sacrificing their own ambitions and ultimately selling their souls to his demands. When the time came for them to own up to their own transgressions Armstrong did everything he could to burn them quickly and violently. He could have come out and owned up to things, kept his friends and teammates from having to be in this position. Instead he branded them as liars and did everything in his power to destroy them. His actions really disgust me.
I'm no fan of Lance, but there are two products he's a part owner in which I love to death: Honey Stinger my favorite on bike food and Mellow Johnnys my favorite bike shop in the world. At first when I was hashing this out in my head I could live with it. He doped in an age of dopers, no big deal. However, after reading the USADA report and hearing about the sheer malevolence he exudes, I just don't want to support anyone like that.
Okey dokey.
Btw when this happens you do not hurt Lance. You hurt the single Mom trying to make ends meet making this stuff evey day, day after day. Lance already has his money.
Do you have any Nike products in your home?
Lol...I have a stroopwafel maker and was making my own before Honey Stinger started their line.
Last edited by roadwarrior; 10-16-12 at 05:18 AM.
10-16-12, 06:48 AM
#108
out walking the earth
No but you hurt Nike and then Nike drops Lance. The insinuation that we should just go status quo when it goes against our beliefs is silly. Nor does the silly P&R bit about hurting single moms carry any weight. When we buy Nike over Reebok we're doing the same thing, it's not like anyone is saying "Lance is evil so **** it, I'm going barefoot."
10-16-12, 07:29 AM
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No but you hurt Nike and then Nike drops Lance. The insinuation that we should just go status quo when it goes against our beliefs is silly. Nor does the silly P&R bit about hurting single moms carry any weight. When we buy Nike over Reebok we're doing the same thing, it's not like anyone is saying "Lance is evil so **** it, I'm going barefoot."
Lance has his money. The people on the line making the product, now, do not.
10-16-12, 08:39 AM
#111
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I still make my own stroopwafels...just not all the time.
10-16-12, 10:29 AM
#112
out walking the earth
Free is good. We're talking apples and oranges. Buying stuff vs. getting stuff is different. I don't have the bank to turn down free stuff.
10-16-12, 11:07 AM
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Steroids, amphetamines, blood transfusions, & various other drugs were used before their time. Steroids were being used by our olympic lifters in the 50's.
10-16-12, 11:14 AM
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I vote with my dollars, and I won't support companies that I find to be morally reprehensible. Of course Nike has been off of every conscientious shopper's list for quite some time now...
10-16-12, 11:16 AM
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10-16-12, 08:23 PM
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Thank you for relieving the ignorance of far too many people, including cyclists. Time for people to smell the roses. Lethal cardiovascular events including massive strokes are a well-characterized side effect of EPO treatment.
No, ignorance was not - and is not - an excuse.
10-17-12, 06:39 AM
#120
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10-17-12, 12:51 PM
#123
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You are making a political decision every time you buy something...in some ways, this is the only real power left to us. Even if you 'don't care', that's a decision you're making.
I vote with my dollars, and I won't support companies that I find to be morally reprehensible. Of course Nike has been off of every conscientious shopper's list for quite some time now...
I vote with my dollars, and I won't support companies that I find to be morally reprehensible. Of course Nike has been off of every conscientious shopper's list for quite some time now...
Now that Nike has dumped him, I'm very curious to see if any of these companies attempt to buy him out.
For the record I haven't owned or purchased a single piece of Nike gear in the past 10 years or so. I realized quite a while ago that Nike's "R&D" is as much a fraud as Armstrong.
10-17-12, 02:24 PM
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Also, he declined to be apprised of his splits, so he could just focus on max effort.
Not everyone who does the ride of his/her life does it doped up. LeMond came out of junior racing as a can't miss talent. No one who knew the pre-cancer Armstrong ever saw him as a GC contender. Maybe a stage winner, maybe a one day classic guy, but didn't have the tools to win a tour. All of a sudden, he reels off 7 in a row, after beating a life-threatening disease.
IMO the best evidence that LeMond rode clean was 1991. And how far and fast he fell once EPO took over the peloton. Early yellow jersey in 1991, and cracks like an egg in the mountains where the EPO users leave him sucking ass. Winds up 7th. And never finishes another TdF. In the space of 3 years he goes from maillot jaune to a guy who drops out 3 places from dead-assed last. Yeah, he doped. Right.
Yeah, he's bitter. Loses two years to a hunting accident, and watches dopers end his career prematurely. I'd be bitter, too.
Last edited by mprelaw; 10-17-12 at 02:29 PM.
10-17-12, 07:18 PM
#125
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Yes, if they all are doing it it is still cheating. Sad spectacle. The reality is my esteem of those who have fessed up has risen, even for Floyd, while my thoughts of lance have evaporated to the conclusion that he is simply a bully, and like all bullies, a coward at heart.
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