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Schwalbe G-One Allaround blowing off the rim. Why? Alternative?

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Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Schwalbe G-One Allaround blowing off the rim. Why? Alternative?

Old 10-30-17, 09:41 AM
  #51  
plohnes
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My G1 blew off at 60 PSI. I think the "Tubeless Easy" G1 is probably close to UST which American Classic says NOT to do. I have done dozens of tubeless over the years, and I can say this tire/rim interface is a problem.I did use a lot of soapy water to get the bead to set, but it blew when there was just one more spot to jump on the shelf. Based on how hard it sounds like to get this tire OFF the shelf, am glad i found it this way as a field change for a flat would be an issue.
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Old 11-17-17, 11:54 PM
  #52  
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One more American Classic Race blow off

One more here with a blow off using a 40mm G One Allround TLE's on an American Classic Race wheelset. It happened on the rear tire, running 40 psi. Thankfully the blow off didn't happen during the ride, but 7 hours later when the bike was leaned against a wall at home. Tires have only been ridden about a week on a few short rides, maybe 50mi total. Prior to the Schwalbes I was running 35mm Compass Bon Jons on the AC Race's with no problem, I just wanted something a little bigger/sturdier and the G1's were awesome until the blow off. I'm thinking of mounting them up tubeless on a HED wheelset to see if they produce the same bulging. The HED's are slightly narrower (21 ID vs 24 ID on AC's) and look like the bead hook is a little more substantial than the American Classics.

A little background, the G1's initially mounted up just fine with no compressor. I was able to mount them by hand without a using a tire lever. I aired them up to 80psi with a hand pump to seat the bead and let them sit overnight without sealant and experienced zero air loss. After adding sealant there was no leakage or air pressure loss at all until the blow off. I've been running Schwalbe Nobby Nics on a set of American Classic 27.5 Wide Lightning's for years with no problems so I never thought there'd be a rim compatibility issue, but it's starting to look like there is.
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Old 11-18-17, 12:31 AM
  #53  
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I almost forgot to mention I've also run a Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 28 x 2.0 with tubes on the AC Race wheelset with no issues as well.
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Old 11-18-17, 02:31 PM
  #54  
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Thanks for posting guys.

Definitely an issue with the 38 mm version of the Scwalbe G-One.

Interesting that I've run the 35's with no issues for 1300 miles.
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Old 11-19-17, 07:33 PM
  #55  
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I dunno, I've been running G1 "38" (40mm) for cumulatively thousands of miles without issue. I ran the 35mm before that and also had no issues. The 40mm were wonderful at Iron Cross race a couple weeks ago. For racing I run them at 32/28psi (F/R) -- I weigh ~175lbs; this feels about right, so this is lower than some other reports here, but 40psi seems like it should work just fine. I am using them now with narrower DT R460db rims, but previously was with Grail rims. These are definitely my go-to tires when I want something sturdier than the Compass Barlow Pass tires -- e.g. for racing.
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Old 11-19-17, 08:16 PM
  #56  
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We are talking about these tires with American Classic 29" RACE wheels specifically.

38 mm Schwalbe G-One tires + American Classic 29" RACE wheels = blow off the rim. That is the topic.


-Tim-
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Old 11-19-17, 10:50 PM
  #57  
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One of the 35 mm G-Ones now self-deflated. The bead on one side unseated as the bike hung in my garage.

This is getting ridiculous.

The tire was mounted Thursday and ridden 60 miles mixed pavement/gravel on Saturday with about 45 PSI in each tire.

Really, really tried to stay with these tires but unfortunately they just don't work with American Classic 29" Race wheels. Panaracers will go on now.


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Old 11-20-17, 05:05 AM
  #58  
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A couple Alternatives to G1

First, I must say Schwalbe Customer Services was top notch and sent me out a new G1 immediately upon notifying them of my blow off. No way I was going to try to mount that tire again and it now sits on a shelf in a box. Maybe a Yankee Swap gift for some lucky rider not using AC wheels.

So, I looked into other options. In my case I am using the 27.5 AC MTB Race wheels, so there are not many 650B x 40ish options out there. I have 50 mm width in the rear chainstays, so need to be careful with going to wide in muddy conditions on my carbon frame. First tried a WTB Resolute. Awesome knobby tire, set up easy, rolls well. It is almost 44mm wide on that rime though, so it will be relegated to the front wheel for muddy conditions. Next up, the Panaracer gravel King 42mm Slick (Panaracer only makes the SK in a 650x48). This is a really nice tire at a very low price point. Rolls like a road tire, but the width helps with traction. Lots of folks feel width is more important than tread.....maybe to some extent. If you were riding smooth gravel roads, fire road stuff, this would be ideal. Similar to Compass at 1/2 price.

in the 700c range, the Gravel king SK x 38 is also a fabulous tire, and works great on the AC rims. BTW, AC wheels are really nice and very well priced for the quality. For Black Friday they are 30% off..a no brainer.
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Old 11-20-17, 08:54 AM
  #59  
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I have a similar post here with exact same problem on Schwalbe G-Ones blowing off of American Classic rim. Our shop has warranty claim in with Schwalbe and they are replacing 2 tires. After blow-offs. both tires clearly had expanded bead lengths on one side as evidenced by ability to put that bead on the rim easily by hand. Not confidence inspiring when new tire blows off of new rim at 15 PSI below max pressure.


These are a special order for a customer, and they are a great tire; I am sure Schwalbe will figure out problem and get this right eventually.


My favorite is actually the Compass 700x38 tires from Compass Cycle. These are really fast and smooth, great for both road and gravel. These are not well known, but they are excellent tires and the fastest/plushest I have yet ridden...
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Old 11-20-17, 09:36 AM
  #60  
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Schwalbe was great with my warranty as well and sent two tires right away.

They said they had not seen this problem before. When this was told to my wheelbuilder he replied, "Yeah, they are full of fecal matter."

I wonder how much of the issue is Schwalbe and how much is American Classic.


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Old 11-21-17, 11:14 AM
  #61  
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Boy Tim, you jinxed yourself in post 54 saying the 35mm versions worked.

I had read this by guitar Ted (a well known gravel bike bloger and test reviewer)"

several brands use "...UST based dimensions on their tires and it is a well known issue that these brand's tires do not work well- or at all- with Stan's based rims, which American Classic rims are based off of. Sun/Ringle' tubeless rims also use a Stan's based design/dimensions for tubeless rims, by the way.

So, if the Schwalbe G-One is based off a UST dimension for the tire bead, it would be no wonder that it doesn't fit the American Classic rim well, because they base their design off a Stan's dimension. I cannot confirm that Schwalbe is using this UST based dimension for their tire bead design, but it sounds like they are.

This is the trouble with tubeless tires at the moment- There are two major competing rim designs and tire manufacturers that either buy into using UST or fudge it so that they fit more rims than UST based ones. Some rim manufacturers shoot for a middle ground as well. The tire and rim folks are not going to freely share info regarding where their products fall in terms of fit either because that limits sales, which they are loathe to risk doing. Although some publicly do post this information, it isn't industry wide. Meanwhile, the consumer is left to sort it all out on their own dime."
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Old 11-21-17, 01:56 PM
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Good info! Thanks.

Looks like I landed right in the middle of that. I'm usually an easy going guy but between tires blowing off the rim and a bad hub from the factory, I'm starting to get frustrated.

My confessor says, "Don't look back" and so Panaracer Gravelking SK are on the bike now. If AC RACE wheels and Gravelking tires are good enough for JOM at Gravelcyclist.com then they are good enough for me. Can't wait for a birthday ride later this week.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 11-21-17 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 11-21-17, 02:30 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
My confessor says, "Don't look back" and so Panaracer Gravelking SK are on the bike now. If AC RACE wheels and Gravelking tires are good enough for JOM at Gravelcyclist.com then they are good enough for me. Can't wait for a birthday ride later this week.


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Old 11-21-17, 04:21 PM
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Panaracers have been on the rims for >18 hours and have not blown off or deflated or killed my cat.

Just felt like saying that.



-Tim-
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Old 11-26-17, 08:54 PM
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I don't think the problem is an issue with the American Classic Race's. After my blow off I remounted the G One on the rim using a tube and there was a pronounced flat spot on the tread to the point that it could no longer be ridden. I even tried to mount it on a HED wheelset and got a blow off in the same spot. There is definitely damage/deformation to the bead on this tire. I don't really want to try and use the other undamaged tire any longer either if the issue is weak beads because there's the chance it may fail as well (my blow off occurred on the rear tire). I've since remounted my set of Compass Bon Jon's with no issues, but like pushstart said it would be nice to have something a little more robust. Attached are images of the where the tread flattens out (starts above the 29 and extends about 2 inches) when mounted with a tube (post blow off), and a picture of the damage to the bead (on right bead, appears bent). Not sure if this is visually what others are noticing, but I thought I'd post it as a reference.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Gone Race.jpg (84.4 KB, 213 views)
File Type: jpg
broken bead.jpg (49.0 KB, 213 views)
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Old 11-26-17, 09:19 PM
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I think that once the tire blows off the rim it is probably shot, though, (right?) so remounting it and seeing a deformity might be expected. At least, that is what I would expect, but I've only had a few tires blow off rims and I think they were all labeled "Hutchinson".

FWIW, I've had great experience w/ G-One (35 and 40mm) on Stans Grail rims, so I'm not sure that this is a UST issue. But it does sound like there's clearly something incompatible with this setup. It's too bad, because they're really nice tires. Honestly, I'm such a fanboy that if my rims were incompatible, I'd probably use that as an excuse to build new wheels. :-) [Maybe slight exaggeration, but honestly, especially for this type of riding, tires make a more meaningful difference to the bike than wheels.]

I've actually gotten progressively bolder with the Compass 700x38mm Barlow Pass tires. They are on an entirely different level in terms of plushness and rolling speed. But they definitely don't have the same level of flat protection, and obviously this is not pertinent to the discussion of the G1
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Old 11-27-17, 07:53 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by HLW
After my blow off I remounted the G One on the rim using a tube and there was a pronounced flat spot on the tread to the point that it could no longer be ridden. I even tried to mount it on a HED wheelset and got a blow off in the same spot. There is definitely damage/deformation to the bead on this tire. I don't really want to try and use the other undamaged tire any longer either if the issue is weak beads because there's the chance it may fail as well (my blow off occurred on the rear tire).

Attached are images of the where the tread flattens out (starts above the 29 and extends about 2 inches) when mounted with a tube (post blow off), and a picture of the damage to the bead (on right bead, appears bent). Not sure if this is visually what others are noticing, but I thought I'd post it as a reference.

@HLW, the photo's attached and description above are exactly what I experienced.

I remounted mine with tubes after the blow off and saw exactly the same exact thing.

Bent bead, flat spot, rear rim - everything you describe matches what happened to mine 100%.


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Old 11-27-17, 09:19 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
One of the 35 mm G-Ones now self-deflated. The bead on one side unseated as the bike hung in my garage.

This is getting ridiculous.

The tire was mounted Thursday and ridden 60 miles mixed pavement/gravel on Saturday with about 45 PSI in each tire.

Really, really tried to stay with these tires but unfortunately they just don't work with American Classic 29" Race wheels. Panaracers will go on now.


-Tim-

Consider the Compass tires too. They are made by Panaracer but are exceptionally fast. This is the go-to tire for gravel in our shop now with many loyal converts.
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Old 11-27-17, 09:26 AM
  #69  
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Schwalbe replaced our 2 tires and we remounted the replacements on the AC Race rims without any problems. The replacement tires had beads noticeable tighter than the originals; we had to use tire levers on the replacements and the originals actually mounted without levers...
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Old 11-27-17, 11:05 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by dwmckee
Schwalbe replaced our 2 tires and we remounted the replacements on the AC Race rims without any problems. The replacement tires had beads noticeable tighter than the originals; we had to use tire levers on the replacements and the originals actually mounted without levers...

Same here. I rode the warranty replacements about 150 miles without problems and then one morning I went into my freshly painted garage to find one side of the rear tire off the rim.

Orange Seal Endurance had been flung all over the walls, ceiling and all over my white Subaru. Sealant was 15 feet away from the bike and so it must have blown off the rim explosively while the bike sat overnight. It was quite enough to find that the sealant had stained the Subaru paint. I enjoy cycling but this is a $35,000 car. Even so I tried to stay with Schwalbe and resigned myself to needing to say with the narrower version. Then the 35's self-deflated and now a pair of slightly used 35's sits crumpled in the corner of my garage while a brand new pair of 38's sits in my closet.

Panaracer Gravelking SK are nice but they don't roll anywhere near as nicely as the G-Ones.


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Last edited by TimothyH; 11-27-17 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 12-03-17, 10:38 PM
  #71  
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Hi All,

Not sure if I am correct but I might have an idea maybe what the issue is with this tyre/rim combination in question here, I have read somewhere where the AC race wheels rim bead hook heights are different (lower height compared to all the other AC wheels) so not much room for the tyres bead to fit in between the bead hook and the rim shelf the tyre pops up onto, from what I gather it is a couple of millimeters lower which would also mean if the rim seat diameter is okay in dimensions and the bead hook is lower then there is possibly a good chance for the tyre to blow off the rim.

I use to own a set of AC race wheels as well and did notice how low the bead hook was, I checked the rim on the standard AC type wheel an they definitely have a higher bead hook. All tyres I fitted to the AC race wheels went on too easily for my liking but other AC wheels I have put the same tyres on (my friend has 2) mount considerably harder.

So again I am only guessing but in IMO the bead hook design on the AC race version wheels is to low and tight fitting for the G1 tyres to mate successfully and maybe for some other tyres for that matter!

I actually sold my set of wheels a while back for this very reason I didn't feel confident with the ease of installation of tyres in general.

Hope this info helps.

Cheers.

Last edited by gmgtennis; 12-03-17 at 11:09 PM. Reason: change the wording
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Old 12-04-17, 04:30 PM
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yeah I hear what your saying. I wish there was some sort of bead comparison chart for tires where you could look at the differences in design between brands like you can with rims. It has to be something that is causing the bead to actually deform or break though, it's not just slipping over a short bead hook and remaining intact. As I mentioned earlier I've been running a set of 35mm compass bon jon's problem free on the Race's and those things take no effort at all to mount and are so loose on the rim you have to seat them with a compressor just to air them up. I would think a loose bead like that would blow off quicker than the G One, especially since I have to run them at a higher psi. I wonder what people's experiences running Schwalbe MTB tires on the Race wheelset have been, I couldn't really find anything negative, and I assume they use the same tubeless bead design, but I maybe there's a difference in their road tubless beads. I just wanted this combo to work because the ride quality was awesome while it lasted.
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Old 12-04-17, 06:08 PM
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I receive a pair of G-one microskin tubeless 700 x 38's today in the mail, and I also have used the Pro one tubeless road tyres in all 3 widths at low and really high pressures (35 -100psi) without any problems at all and I have pushed those tyres really hard at times, there was never any issue with them blowing off the rim. I've used the Pro ones on various rims Mavic road and mtb all UST tubeless and one mavic wheelset with hookless bead design and again no issues at low or high poundage's, I've put them on cheap Chinese carbon tubeless ready rims again no problems.

So when the G-ones turn up today I will have a look at the bead appearance and compare it to the Pro ones, it will be interesting to see if they are similar or completely different. And I will pump the G-ones up at various poundage's on all the different wheelset I have to see if there are any issues.

I will report back with my findings good or bad.
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Old 12-05-17, 06:04 AM
  #74  
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My G-one tubeless microskin 38c tyres arrived today, both weighed about 20g over the specified weight, so not too bad.
I compared the bead of the G-one to the Pro one 28mm and was surprised by just how much bigger the G-ones bead is, without sounding like I'm exaggerating it is literally double the size, quite chunky in appearance. Thinking back to the AC race wheels I use to own I really doubt with the size of the bead that it would seat properly in the AC's compact low bead shelf, IMO and I am guessing here but I think the tyre would jump up onto the shelf initially but not completely lock in under the bead hook ( too tight a fit) so tyre would start to deform under pressure and pop out and over the low bead hook design on the AC race rims, again I am guessing here but I also think it is a logical possibility this is why the tyres are blowing of the rim.

Anyway later today I went ahead and installed the new G-ones on three consecutive wheelset to see how easily they fitted and if there were any signs of the tyre blowing off the rim.
1ST wheelset Mavic Ksyrium pro ust disc 2018 19mm internal, the tyres pump up easily with a MTB pump. and are holding air fine without sealant (obviously I will add some before I go riding).
2ND wheelset Mavic Allroad pro ust disc 2018 22mm hookless (no bead hook) one tyre pumped up easily as above but strangely the second tyre needed an air compressor to seat it, but again is holding air really well.
3RD wheelset a cheap carbon race road disc tubeless ready wheelset with c-ray spokes, both tyres needed the compressor it seat properly.
Also all three wheelsets I pump the tyres up to 90psi initially to see if the tyre would blow off the rim, all 3 were fine no hint of the tyre deforming or blowing off the rim.
Also worth mentioning the 2 mavic wheelset only fully seated at around 60psi I was a bit surprised how high I had to go and the carbon set at about 40psi. All 3 wheelsets have quite high bead hooks and a generous size area for the tyre bead to sit in, unlike the AC race wheels that are a lot more compact IMO too small to accommodate the G-ones rather large bead!!
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Old 12-05-17, 08:08 AM
  #75  
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About 1700 miles with G-One 35mm on Stan's Grail rims. Both were VERY difficult to mount, but once mounted, they inflated without drama using a floor pump. The replacement (due to normal wear, not failure) for the rear went on easier than the original, but still holds air without sealant and gives no problems. A little more info: beads seated at 60 psi, which is at or just above max recommended pressure for the rim. Usually run them 35-38 psi. I'm 165 lbs.


Last edited by bch238; 12-05-17 at 08:26 AM.
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