Chombi1 

So I just got this NOS gold colored Sedisport chain recently (First one I ever bought. Usually get silver Sedis chains for my bikes) and I decided to give it my usual cleanup before I install it on one of my builds. Used some mineral WD40 to clean off the old factory grease on it.
It was looking OK when I started and I did notice it was a nice bright gold color, when it was wet with WD40 on it, but after a few passes with a brush and more WD40 sprayed on it, I noticed that the gold color is suddenly gone from the chain, and now it is more of a buff sillver/ nickel color...... Did Sedis just coat these chains with a gold colored varnish and I melted and brushed it off while I was cleaning it??
I would have thought that the gold color was coming from some sort of alloy on the metal or something deposited on the steel surface chemocally/electronically, but I guess I must be wrong....
Don't think the seller misrepresented the chain at all, but maybe that's just how they did gold colored chains?

verktyg 

You put in on backwards.....

I always wondered how they got the gold color on those chains as well, Regina Oro and Shimano Uniglide chains too.

Always thought that because brass is an alloy of copper and zinc it wouldn't plate. Not so. It can be done and that's probably the way the chain side plates are "gold plated". FW sprockets too.

You're probably right about a protective coating which was probably dissolved by the solvent in WD40.

verktyg

The Golden Boy 

I hope you at least got a pic of the bike with the gold chain on it!!!

pastorbobnlnh 

Gold Suntour ProCompe/Perfect sprockets can do the same thing. The "gold" is more like a thin film wash and with the wrong degreasing solution, it will disappear into the solution you are using. Sorry for your loss!

cdmurphy

I assumed the "oro" chains and cogs were a thin coating of Titanium Nitride. (I'm pretty sure that is what KMC does for their current gold chains.) I don't know what sort of surface prep is required, but I can imagine a poorly prepped surface might lead to the film floating over oils or grease, letting it be washed off with solvent.

Salamandrine 

I'm pretty sure that Regina Oro chains and freewheels were brass plated. Not absolutely sure though. They tended to tarnish just sitting around the shop. IIRC there was some advertising copy at some point describing it. It's a very different look compared to a gold KMC chain.

Chombi1 

I even asked everyone in my house to look at the chain to confirm that it did indeed turned all silver on me, lest my eyes are deceiving me, and everyone did....
oh well, I did not buy it for much money anyway, and I always preferred silver Sedis chains. Just a bit puzzled why Sedis did not do a better job on their gold colored chains, being that they had a pretty good reputation back then.....
Oh well,....C'est la Vie!...

Drillium Dude 

Ah, but it'll be black soon enough

DD

Bikerider007

I had a similar incident with a gold chainring recently. I sprayed degreaser on it, wiped and noticed it had reduced the color a fair amount.

verktyg 

There are several processes used for Titanium Nitride (TiN) coatings. The oldest method, CVD (Chemical Vapor Deposition) is applied in a vacuum chamber at ~1925° F (~1050 C°). CVD TiN is most frequently used for Tungsten Carbide metal cutting tools. It came into common use in the 1970s.

PVD (Physical Vapor Deposition) TiN is applied at 400° to 900° F (200 C° to 480 C°). The process was developed in Russia at the University of Moscow. The Russians lacked the means to commercialize the process. Several European companies refined the process and PVD TiN became commercially viable 1980.

The PVD coating process requires surfaces to be chemically cleaned. A pinhead size spec of dirt or grease on a part can contaminate the whole coating chamber and leave splotchy surfaces on everything in it. The chamber needs to be sand blasted to remove the contaminants before it can be reused. Companies that do PVD coatings are very careful with what they put in their chambers. The cost of a basic PVD coating chamber is $250,000! Special pre-cleaning equipment, another $100,000+. That's just to get started.

PVD "coatings" and not just coatings. Ions of the coating material get embedded into the surface and don't rub off. TiN can be harder than Tungsten Carbide and Silicon Carbide, under Diamond.

Today the cost for PVD TiN coating has become a lot more economical. It's very possible that the links on KMC chains are PVD TiN coated.

To change the subject, @Chombi1 is it possible that the "gold" color came from hardened grease on the surface and after you cleaned it up, it turned silver"

I think you just failed your alchemist's test! You're supposed to turn things into gold, not gold into silver!

verktyg

Chombi1 

Nope, I don't think it was "golden" old grease. You should have seen how nice and gold it looked under the pool of WD40 in my component cleaning tray before the finish disappeared......

Cute Boy Horse

Well the WD40 tells us you wanted the chain ruined anyway. Seems it worked.

Lascauxcaveman 

Because...?

Cassave

I'd guess the "gold" is actually cadmium with a chromate treatment.
In the US the AMS spec is QQ-P-416 Type II. It's an excellent corrosion inhibitor and the chromate solutions can range from
brassy gold to olive drab.
Scrubbing with a solvent can reduce the chromate layer exposing the silvery cadmium base.

Cute Boy Horse

WD40 is what clueless dads use when they think "how hard can it be?".

Chombi1 

Obviously, you are just a anti WD40 snob that does not know that much.........
WD40 is just a kerosene based product made more convenient because it's in a spray can , so easy to clean parts with it by blasting it with the spray. Perfect for cleaning chains on motorcycles as the solvent will not harm the O rings on motorcycle chains. That is what I and many other motorcyclists use to clean their chains, that's why I naturally pass on the method to clean my bicycle chains, and have been doing so for many years.
What do you clean your chains with, gasoline??

dwing

Do all the colored chains.. red, blue, etc.. wash away using specific cleaning liquids and lubes? It doesnt seem reasonable gold would be any different from mfg standpoint.

Chombi1 

Really depends on how the finished/color was applied to the links. A surface coating similar to colored/tinted varnish which I now suspect my chain was finished with) or paint would sure eventually can just wear off and wash off after some use and exposure, but as already noted, there are other ways to color metal that would be more embedded in the surface of the steel of the chain. I think those can still eventually wear or scratch off, but not just after a few scrubbings in solvent.

fietsbob

Sedisport was thrown under the Bus, When Sram bought the Fichtel Sachs group,
along with Malliard, etc.
/
Right?

Chombi1 

Sedis actually survived for a few years making chains under the Sachs/Sedis brand name. Lots of 7/8 speed era narrow chains are still available, out there, NOS.
I even had a Sachs/Sedis narrow chain that was sold in Campy packaging. I guess Campy found them to work well with some of their early indexed shifting systems.
Sedis also sold chains for industrial tools and machinery. Not sure if they are still around in that capacity or if Sachs eventually just absorbed them and killed off that subsidiary.

verktyg 

Here ya go Chombi1, Sedis Sport Gold chain on my 1980 Bertin C37bis that I got new 37 years ago. This is the original chain and I haven't ridden this bike that much, maybe less than 1000 miles. It's dirty but it's original dirt... Actually an old picture I took a few years ago to show the Simplex plastic pusher plate.. You can still see gold color on the links. It would look better cleaned up, but it would just get dirty again....



I suspect that the gold color on the side plates was brass plated. It seems like that was the the most economical way to manufacturer them. The biggest problem is fixturing those small parts.

As far as the colored fixiefool chains, I think that the component parts on those chains are coated with an epoxy type paint.

verktyg

Lascauxcaveman 

Yeah. And pretty much every bicycle mechanic (professional and amateur) I've met uses WD40 to good effect for degreasing old components. I haven't met one who's complained about it 'ruining' anything. Except maybe a thin and fragile gold colored finish on a chain. And frankly, that's a new one to me, since I've cleaned up a couple of old gold Uniglide chains with the stuff and those chains are still nice and gold-colored. I'm guessing contact time matter quite a bit here.

If you want to make the point that WD40 is not a very good lubricant, I'll go along with you there, as it evaporates pretty quickly. But for cleaning stuff up before you add the lube; it's pretty hard to beat.

verktyg 

WD40 was developed to displace water in electrical equipment thus WD. Back in the 70's it was supposed to to contain some silicone which is a light duty lube???

In the 70's in New Mexico we used to use WD40 for chain lube. Water was almost never a problem but dust was. Most other lubricants at the time would pick up the fine grit and wear out your chain and sprockets. I applied the stuff before every ride. It helped keep the chains clean too.

Since I was running the shop and we bought Sedis Sport chains on 50 meter and 100 meter wooden spools, I changed my chains every 3000 miles whether they need it or not. They only cost me $3.00 each.

Fortunately I saved the old ones in baggies. I was having some shifting problems with my Ironman with a 7 sp SIS indexing RD. Out of frustration, I bought a Park CC-3 Chain Wear Gage. I found the problem, it was a worn out upper pulley. But Wait! I checked out all the old Sedis Sport chains and they were all good.

verktyg

verktyg 

WD40 was developed to displace water in electrical equipment thus WD. Back in the 70's it was supposed to have contained some silicone which is a light duty lube???

In those days in New Mexico we used to use WD40 for chain lube. Water was almost never a problem but dust was. Most other lubricants at the time would pick up the fine grit and wear out your chain and sprockets. I applied the stuff before every ride. It helped keep the chains clean too.

Since I was running the shop and we bought Sedis Sport chains on 50 meter and 100 meter wooden spools, I changed my chains every 3000 miles whether they need it or not. They only cost me $3.00 each.

Fortunately I saved the old ones in baggies. I was having some shifting problems with my Ironman with a 7 sp SIS indexing RD. Out of frustration, I bought a Park CC-3 Chain Wear Gage. I found the problem, it was a worn out upper pulley. But Wait! I checked out all the old Sedis Sport chains and they were all good.

verktyg

exmechanic89

I tend to agree. The factory lube on chains is imo the best lubricant the chain will ever see in it's limited life, due to how it is applied when the chain is made. Removing it right away takes away one of the best parts of a new chain. YMMV.