1simplexnut

Spotted this up for auction here in NZ .
anyone recognise the frame ? Japanese ? Apparently ?
Appears to be riveted on down tube which may not be a good thing ?

Any thoughts folks ?

non-fixie 

Can't help with the identification, but I like it. A lot.

MiloFrance

Drive side pic.
Seat cluster looks generic to this era bonded frame, carbon layup is very different

HPL

I've not seen that frame before; nor heard of DURA ALL brand(?) before. I can see the rivets at the head tube top and bottom lug connections and at the BB-DT connection. Odd, I guess. I 've got a couple ALAN frames (alloy not the carbonio, although very similar) that have similar characteristics of this frame especially at the seat stays, but no rivets (and no separation of the tubing/lug connections). I have a Vitus/Payan that does not appear to "hold" together as well, glued only, and it shows the excess glue resin where tubing and lug didn't fit perfectly (I don't know if this is common), or was repaired. Still no rivets on either style frame; nor on the Colnago Carbitubo which is also lugged without rivets. I'm curious if they are from the factory or added due to repairing or as a precaution. The frame looks great so it seems it would be factory installed. Do you know the year, approximately? I believe that Specialized had no rivets on their carbon/alloy lugged frames so probably not the same manufacturing plant. I couldn't find another photo of one in a basic search. Good luck, you've got me wondering now!

Chombi1 

Never seen this one before......
The design of the frame look European but its not a Vitus, ALAN, or TVT....

T-Mar

A few of these have surfaced in the past. I don't know the manufacturer but the lugs appears to be an excellent match for the aluminum Corsa model offered by Performance Bicycle Shop in the late 1980s under their eponymous brand. Literature mentions the rivet at each joint to back up the adhesive bonding, so I strongly suspect this is the same frame but with carbon fibre main tubes. The Performance Corsa was sourced from Japan. The serial number may allow us to determine the year and possibly the manufacturer.

repechage

Oxy/propane at work, very cool.

qcpmsame 

Doesn't everyone have some on hand? And, a TiG machine on stand by too? We do......

Bill

Feldman

I remember seeing that frame as a Centurion model circa 1990.

T-Mar

The Centurion Ironman Carbon were quite different, employing a different lugset and carbon tubes for both the chain stays and the wishbone style seat stays.

JohnDThompson 

SR offered a bonded aluminum frame in the mid-80s. It wouldn't surprise me if it was also available as a bonded carbon fiber frame.

T-Mar

SR's bonded aluminum frame was the Litage, which was also marketed under the Prism brand. They were quite different from this frame. Externally, the lugs appeared very short but they had long internal sleeves and the adhesive was injected after assembly. The seat stays were dual wishbone style and bolted to the seat lug and dropouts. I recall them being very late 1980s.

Chombi1 

I'm wondering if the Performace decals were replaced by altered Shimano "Dura Ace" decals....
Maybe the previous owner wanted it to be something else other than a PBS bike??

CO_Hoya 

Agree with T-Mar that the OP's frame is not at all similar to the SR Litage.

@Brewsmith started a topic about those frames, although his images seem to have disappeared.

There's a picture from @1simplexnut remaining:


I've got one in the shed waiting to get sold, but no pics on hand.

JohnDThompson 

They had them by around 1984. Trek was just starting to look into non-steel bikes at that time, and was considering licensing a frame from an existing aluminum frame manufacturer. We got samples from AlAn, Vitus, and SR to play around with. Ultimately, we decided to go with our own design in house.

T-Mar

As I stated earlier, I've seen these surface on the forum in the past, so it would appear to be a legitimate brand.

Chombi1 

"Dura All"??..... If the brand name's real then, it must be one of the least imaginative name to come up with for a bike when it was sold (Shimano must have not been too happy about it either), not even considering it also sounds like abrand name one would give for a car battery or farmer's overalls...... not a high quality CF race bike that it looks to be.
Marketing budget must have been non-existently small..

T-Mar

Admittedly, initially it doesn't sound very creative or appealing to Anglophones but I suspect the brand name goes back to the aluminum tubed version and may be a based on the duraluminum alloy used in the construction (i.e. DURA ALL = DURAluminum ALLoy). With this in mind, it sounds better pronouncing it with a short "a" as in alloy, rather than the "awl" pronounciation. Also, if the brand is Japanese, it may make more sense in the Japanese market., as they are not thinking of "all" in the context of English definition.

Archangel1183

I recently purchased a Dura All bike with complete Shimano 600 EX Groupset. It's a really nice bike and looks a lot like a Vitus. Theres a sticker that says Light Alloy Nakagawa and Japan. From what I can find, it looks like Nakagawa is (was?) a famous road bike brand in Japan. They might have made bikes for several different brands including Panasonic, Centurion, and Nishiki.

The bike I purchased looks just like this one without the Panasonic stickers. I'll take some pictures when I get it cleaned up.

RobbieTunes

Beat me to it.
+1

thebigchin

I just came across a very similar bike to that "Performance" brand bike one that you posted a photo of. Based on the grouppo installed, I think that the one that I havce is few years older. I can't find much, if anything, about the Performance brand. You had mentioned some literature. Do you still have access to any links or other info about these bikes?

The one I have is mostly suntour components with a Campy headset and a modern wheelset. I'll post up some photos once I get in my required 10 posts and get the permissions to do photos and links.

T-Mar

Performance was the house brand of Performance Bicycle Shop, a shop and mail order business located in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Circa 1982 they started offering frames and bicycles under their eponymous branding, in addition to various other cycling products and accessories. The frames and bicycles were contract manufactured by a wide variety of sources over the years. I forget the exact year but sometime in the early 1990s they even supplied the road bicycles to the USA National Team.

Higher end models were typically offered as both frames and built with a wide variety of groups. Consequently, it's possible that your bicycle was ordered as a frame and assembled with components taken from an older, donor bicycle. We may be able to determine the year from the serial number. You don't need 10 posts to submit photos. They won't insert in this thread but they will be deposited in a gallery album where members can view them.

T-Mar

Thank-you for the photos. Based on the serial number, the frame should be 1987. I can't quite make out the SunTour components, other than the rear derailleur, which looks like it may be SunTour Sprint. However, if they are older than the frame, they don't appear to be much older, maybe three years at the most. Close ups of the major components would help. Alternately, you can check the Suntour components for their dual letter codes, being aware that components typically pre-date the frame by several months.

joesch

Lots of nice info and detective work.

Q: How long was kevlar used in the CF layup ?

Russ Roth

My understanding is that they had to put Kevlar between the carbon and aluminum to prevent corrosion of the aluminum. Calfee used to do repairs, still does?, and had info on their site about it. Haven't looked in a while.