McBTC

Nearly all of humanity has pulled off the LCF thing since Paleolithic times and most of humanity living today still does the LCF lifestyle. Coloring the everyday reality of most of humanity with catch-phrases like "sustainable living" or living "car light" doesn't change the fact that billions of people are living on the edge and doing these things already and also that even among those who enjoy grander options, many may have little or no use for a car. What's interesting are the reasons why some moderns feel compelled to pat themselves on the back for adopting a LCF lifestyle as if they've happened upon some new and better way of life that the rest of us do not but should appreciate. But, discussion here of their reasons why we should appreciate the LCF lifestyle always goes off the rails because it never ends up having anything to do with a love of bikes and many times it has nothing to do with bikes at all.

3alarmer 

.
...The Paleolithic Times

Seattle Forrest

My reasoning doesn't have a whole lot to do with bikes. Driving in a city is a constant fight against traffic and for parking. I'd rather walk. Or bike. Or have it delivered.

Mobile 155

That in fact is perfectly understandable reasoning.

it isn't the least bit contentious because it doesn't cast a shadow on anyone that would rather ride a bike or have things delivered not living in the city.

I-Like-To-Bike

Of course it makes sense not to drive or even own a motor vehicle when better alternatives are available that meet the individual's needs and priorities. Just as driving or owning a motor vehicle makes sense when it serves the user's purposes better than the available alternatives.

"Better" of course as determined by the individual making the choice, not by spacey ideologues insistent on imposing their own dreamy agenda.

Walter S

I agree. Especially since "better" can include any criteria important to the individual, including not only practical concerns but also personal values of any sort.

I-Like-To-Bike

Of course it can. "Saving the environment" or WWJD or whatever are all acceptable guiding criteria for individuals to base their own actions, choices and decisions on transportation. That does not include giving any leeway for ideologues to use their own personal criteria of "better" to impose their beliefs as to what others need or do not need to choose for their transportation.

Walter S

Certainly not. It's a free country.

People can also make their values and moral judgements known, without feeling they are guilty of "imposing". The reader is free to scoff at any such statements and move along without further attention.

Seattle Forrest

Well there's already a fight brewing in this thread. No salvo yet but you can see everyone positioning themselves.

wolfchild

What you're doing sounds perfectly reasonable and normal to me.

cooker

I still don't get why you think it needs to be about a love of bikes in the first place. Love of bikes is not a reason to be LCF - there has to be some reason not to have a car, or not to use it much, for your lifestyle to be LCL or LCF - either you don't want one, don't need one, or can't afford one. Bikes are incidental.

loky1179

Personally, before making any decision, I always ask "What would I-like-to-bike" do (WWILTBD?)? Then my path is crystal clear.

Mobile 155

Just to me and maybe me alone the reason bikes are so important to the discussions is at the top of my page where I found most of these forums. It says "Bikeforums.net". For me when I found all of these threads it was because I searched, "Bike discussions and chat". I had expected the threads to be bicycle based. Once again thinking in terms of most closely related to my search.

Seattle Forrest

This is a bike forum. The people on BF.net and in BF/LCF are all cyclists. To a degree the general population isn't.

I used to commute to and from work by bike. Traffic was a big part of the reason; it was usually faster to bike, although not always, but I knew when I'd get home if I traveled by bike, and I could make plans. When I'd travel by car, traffic jams would often ruin my plans. But the other big part of the reason was that I love riding a bike. Finally, I was going to go for a bike ride after work anyway, so bike commuting killed two birds with one stone and left me with more free time than I would have had otherwise. Then my office moved.

Summary: you're right in a global sense, but keep in mind the LCF forum here is a very small and selective subset of the world's LCF population.

wolfchild

The main reasons why people are LCF are:


- strange ideological beliefs
- social activism and riding a bike for them is just really them protesting against cars
- LCF makes them feel smug and more ethical then people who drive
- hate for cars
- hate of progress
- economic/financial hardships
- not capable of operating a vehicle due to medical or mental conditions
- too lazy to take a driving course
- too dumb to pass a drivers examination and get a drivers licence
- a personal belief that not driving a car prevents global warming


Very few people out there are car-free voluntarily and for practical reasons, I know they are out there but the number is very small ...So yes you are correct when you say that the love of bikes and cycling is not the main reason why some people are car-free...I respect people who are car-free for practical reason and because they love bikes. I don't have respect for people who are car-free for ideological reasons or who are using bikes to stage a protest and who are trying to force their ways and beliefs on everybody else around them.

Rowan

I lived without owning a motor vehicle for over a decade for none of the reasons you listed. I think you also miss that there well off people who live in high-density cities who don't need to drive much less own a motor vehicle because they have everything they need within walking or cycling or public transport distance.

badger1

I think this is a fair point, cooker.

However, I also think it raises one of what I think are the problems with this specific sub-forum: it -- that is, its description -- is rhetorically at odds with its more general rhetorical context, which is cycling (Bike Forums). Both the title and the description of this sub-forum suggest strongly that its focus is Living Car Free (or car light), with 'cycling' being incidental, just as you suggest. 'Cycling' is just one alternative among several possible alt transport methods listed within this sub-forum's description.

Consequently, this sub-forum is framed in such a manner as to invite threads, posts, discussions that have nothing whatsoever, even obliquely, to do with cycling.

To my mind, this sub-forum, if it is to continue at all (a separate question), should be re-framed so that its focus is squarely on cycling -- in relation to attempts to LCF or LCL, just as we have sub-forums for Road, for Mtb, for Commuting and so on.

FBinNY 

I don't remember ever saying this on BF, but this is nothing more than troll thread intended to annoy, arouse and inflame those very people the OP claims are patting themselves on the back.

Yes, the reasons why people adopt car free or car light lifestyle can make for an interesting thread, but in my not at all humble opinion, the tone of the post is likely to prevent any interesting dialog.

Sadly, it simply fuels the claims of some of the more rabid here (those back patters, maybe) that many post in LCF simply to criticize them and LCF in general.

Posts to recent threads make clear that there are many who consider their choice simply a personal preference without an agenda, and I count myself among them, so I'm more than slightly annoyed to see someone trying to sow seeds of acrimony here for no other purpose but the fun of doing so.

There are a multitude of reasons that people may opt to reduce or eliminate car use, some personal or financial, some simply because they prefer bike riding to driving, some as part of a social agenda or consistent with a specific world view. But NOBODY owes anybody an explanation or justification for those decisions, include the most smug, sanctimonious, better than me person here.

Machka 

Well, as it happens ...

I spent most of my time growing up as car light and most of the reason for that was that my parents wanted to be active. So we walked and cycled everywhere.

I grew up surrounded by bicycles and my father instilled in me a love for bicycles. I began cycling when I was 6 years old ... and never stopped. However, I did ease up a bit between the ages of 17 and 23. Then on April 29, 1990, I decided to start cycling again avidly and I've been doing it ever since ... 26 years now and over 150,000 km. I can't imagine life without cycling.

I did go car free for about 6 years when I lived in Winnipeg and my reason for that was that I was tired of the hassle and expense of running a motor vehicle ... I just couldn't be bothered anymore ... and besides, I rarely used it anyway because I walked, cycled or used public transportation. I was already cycling to work regularly, and had been walking to work at a previous place of employment for years, so the idea of walking, cycling, or using public transportation for things like getting groceries wasn't a stretch.

Plus it gave me a chance to increase my fitness level. I was racing bicycles when I went car free, so cycling everywhere in addition to training to race gave me a better base. A couple years later, I moved into Randonneuring and then cycling everywhere for utility purposes really gave me a better base for the long distance cycling.

I even commuted to the start of rides by bicycle. My 600K randonnees started about 10 km from where I lived, so I'd ride to them, do the 600K, and then ride home. I joined a cycletouring club in order to get some more, different rides in as well and I recall one day I decided to ride a century ... I cycled 50 km to the start of their day tour, cycled about 70 km on their day tour with them, stayed for the BBQ at the end of the ride, then cycled 50 km home.


My life circumstances changed quite significantly after about 6 years, and I did the math and discovered that it was less expensive for me to drive approx. 1000 km/week to and from uni than it was to get a place to stay near the uni ... for 2 of the 4 semesters. For the other 2 semesters, it was actually less expensive to get a place to stay near the uni. It was all about what would be the less expensive option for me.

And then my life circumstances changed quite significantly again, and I've been car light since then for the same reasons as above ... don't want the hassle and want to increase fitness. And despite the fact that I use public transportation to get to work, we're looking at ways that I might be able to increase my cycling, and cycling as part of my commute might be an option if we can overcome certain hurdles with it.

My reason for wanting to increase my cycling ... so that I will become fitter and will be able to do the randonneuring that I love doing easier and more comfortably.

McBTC

True, true, points for candor, as far as it goes but, in in quoting the entire opening without addressing the "pat on the back" mentality of those who, for whatever their reasons, come on to blow up intelligent discussions with their "ad homs" and anti-modernist (even, anti-humanist) ethos goes to what you are saying: the title of the forum invites life's losers to descend on us 'sinners' -- albeit bike-lovers -- like the Hound of the Baskervilles.

Machka 

That would be nice.

Dahon.Steve

As someone who is carfree for 20 years or more, this does not represent me or anyone I know. Below are the reasons I'm carfree. I can buy a BMW in cash at this point from all my savings so there's no economic hardship. I passed the driving course and driving test on my first attempt.

- Sick and tired of paying for insurance, car loans, parking tickets, repairs, tolls
- Public transit is far more comfortable than driving a car any day of the week. I feel sorry for those that have to drive to work. Seriously.
- Used savings from not owing a vehicle to buy new home.
- Auto usage simply made me visit other suburbs to consume more and purchase "Stuff" I really didn't need. There is nothing a car can give me that I can't order online and have at my door step in days.
- Extra funds for retirement savings go into my bank, not the auto dealers, repair shop, insurance company etc!
- The freedom of not having to own a vehicle is something you have to experience in your life to enjoy it. The second largest bill after house hold living expenditure was finished and never coming back. That's freedom.

Dahon.Steve

The majority of the world that is carfree does not own a bicycle. The beauty of being carfree is that you don't need one. I became carfree 20 years ago (or more) and didn't own a bicycle at the time. I was clueless about utility cycle or commuting.

If you want to see the bicycle of someone who is carfree, visit the other forums like Commuting, Road Bike, Mountain Bike or Hybrid. Our bikes aren't any different than what you'll see in other forums. That's not what your here for.

There isn't a single bicycle that can make you carfree, especially if you're living tens of miles from everywhere. If you want to become carfree, you must start thinking of a way to make it happen. This is going to take a tremendous amount of courage on your part.

Mobile 155

That may be true except we have one small fly in the ointment. This is Bike forums. Not alternative living forums, Not the national environmental forums, not the bus riders forums, not the walkers forums. Not social forums and not political/economic forums. (Just saying) If someone was interested in this particular form of discussion like you have pointed out without a car and without a bicycle how in the world would your target audience find it? what would you type into Google? If it isn't about bikes why is it in a bike forum? Look in the Hyper Text line in the search bar it says clearly, Bikeforums.net. This is beginning to look more like adware or malware in a bicycle operating system. Wouldn't it be more prudent, not that I am suggesting prudence here, if someone not interested in bicycles had this forum in a bus riding, walking mass transit forum called Nocarsor bikes.net?

McBTC

Cause and effect? In the years I've owned a car it enabled me to enjoy riding a bike.