redmanf1

I have been looking for parts for my 91 Waterford frame but no luck or I guess I should say reasonable priced parts. I had been looking for a no name bike to pull the parts off.
I have a PDG-7 that is in great condition which is too small for me. I hate to canonicalize it because it is so nice but it seems like it might be the best solution. What do you think would you pull the parts off the PDG-7? Any ideas??
This is the info on the two.

1991 Paramount Waterford Code:580 - 58 CM, D - matching fork, M - OS Tubing / option, W - Waterford,
M - December 90 - 1990, 004 - 4th frame of month.


1992 PDG-7 Shimano Ultegra 600 Wolber 700c
Frame - Oversized Chromoly Precision butted 49 cm 19.1/4 “

Thank you for any ideas
Nelson



.

ridelikeaturtle

Right now, you've got two bikes you can't ride. I say go for it, build up one you can ride.

nomadmax 

Sell the PDG 7 and put some components on the Waterford that it deserves. With that, you'd be doing two things: passing on a nice stock PDG 7 to someone who it fits and appreciates the bike for what it is; you get the exact components you want on your keeper. Only an opinion

What size is the PDG 7 ?

randyjawa 

Absolutely and, guess what, you will still have a lovely, though purple, frame to sell. And, keep in mind that lots or people prefer to start with just a frame/fork st and then build the bike the way that they want it.

With that in mind, you should be riding the white bike later today. Best of luck.

seedsbelize 

I voted no, and then read the post. I have a PDG 5 here that I keep around as a guest bike, for a specific guest. I have been considering doing the same as you suggest, because I really like the group, and rarely ride that bike.

shelbyfv

I'd love to have a 7 frame and fork only in 55 or 56 or 21 in Schwinn speak....

Bianchigirll 

I am going to say pass the PDG on as it is. You could likely get enough for it to get a good start on collecting some nice early Chorus or C-Rec for the Paramount.

Pompiere

I would swap the parts over to the Waterford. If you are concerned about the originality on the PDG7, then hang on to the frame until you acquire the desired parts for the Waterford and then put the parts back on the PDG7. At least then you would have a bike you could ride.

jethin

Seems reasonable to me, though I think I’d want to use a silver stem and seatpost.

redmanf1

This is the info on the two.

1991 Paramount Waterford Code:580 - 58 CM, D - matching fork, M - OS Tubing / option, W - Waterford,

M - December 90 - 1990, 004 - 4th frame of month.



1992 PDG-7 Shimano Ultegra 600 Wolber 700c

Frame - Oversized Chromoly Precision butted 49 cm 19.1/4 “

FBOATSB

I clicked yes on your poll to get your Waterford up and running ASAP.

The soul of a bike is the frame and maybe a high quality wheel set. Parts are just parts INMHO.

A frame set too small for you is just trade goods or maybe hang on the wall. Besides, that unicrown just doesn't trip my trigger

YMMV, of course.

texaspandj

If it were me it would depend on budget. And since I never have bike money. I would cannibalize. Then if I felt like the Waterford deserved a higher tier group than the 2nd tier group offered by Shimano (the general consensus here). I'd sell the frame and use the money towards that. However that tricolor group is some dependable robust stuff and you may decide to let it ride and use the money on something else.

bikemig 

This seems like a no brainer, swap the parts over. It is expensive to buy parts piece by piece for a build. The cheapest way to build up a frame is by buying a donor bike. Lucky you, you already own a prime donor bike.

USAZorro

I'll take what's in the box, Wayne.

I'm not joking but... better to have a bike you're excited about riding than to not. Someone will be pleased to get that purple frame and fork.

easyupbug 

I have always liked the tricolor groups that have come my way so I would swap. It's not like this decision is permanent. If you hold onto the PDG for a while and find a great deal on a group you like better you can always swap back.

crandress 

I vote yes, as the other bike won't be used and it gets you up and running. However, I think it would look lovely with Campagnolo and is how I would go, but I am Campy biased so don't read much into that. The Shimano 600 will look great on there as well.

Classtime 

Yes. Nice looking Paramount frame. And that 90 Series MTB is very cool.

xiaoman1 

I voted no and would sell the PDG frame with the parts on it and use the money I received towards parts for the rebuild...too many "good" bikes are canalized for parts group and quality originals are getting harder to find.
You might find that after selling the complete bike that you are fairly close to being able to buy the parts that you need for the build of the Waterford.
Why strip to save a few dollars?
JMO, Ben

Darth Lefty 

Does the PDG have shorter cranks and narrower handlebars than you'd like?

mstateglfr 

Swap em and sell the PDG frame. You arent wanting to spend money to buy up parts and have a bike with the parts you need.

I used to hate tearing down full bikes that are really nice, but unless you can get the $ out of the PDG frame that's needed to build up your frame, swap components for sure.

RiddleOfSteel

Another vote for a full parts swap. It's all there, so it will take no extra money to get that Waterford built. The components are freaking 6400-era Shimano 600 in 8-speed STI shifter form--that is a GREAT groupset! Campagnolo is not necessary unless you are 1) a fan of it 2) want to deal with even worse pricing/condition ratios while having a tough time finding a full group and wheels. Plenty of Paramounts in the Waterford era have been equipped with 6400-era 600 and have served their owners well. As much as it'd be neat to have 7400-era Dura-Ace on it, it's unnecessary. I actually prefer the STI lever paint/coloring of the 600 over the Dura-Ace. The rest of the 600 groupset has always looked quite nice, so there's nothing to lose.

The 600 groupset will look really good on that lovely white paint, and the matching dark grey rims with tan wall tires will set that thing off--you'll be floored with how good it will look. Purple is cool, but the white will look immensely better with those 600 parts.

sdn40

The best value by far is to swap the parts over and then sell the frame. Depending on your area, selling the PD7 as is won't get you anywhere close as you are then in the parts seeking market - which is the most expensive way to buy and build unless you are really patient.

Let's say you sell the complete PD7 for $250. Look around for wheelsets, tires and tubes. You could blow half your budget easy and you don't even have brifters yet. You'd be surprised how fast $15 here and $25 there adds up if your budget is tight

rccardr 

The PDG7 is nothing special, the value is in the groupset. Swap the parts and sell the purple frame.

Don't be concerned about using second tier Shimano for a 91 Paramount. The performance is every bit as good as DA from the same era. I have it on my Merckx Century, works flawlessly. Plus, you can swap in other Shimano components for special event builds, e.g. a Deore RD, 6206 pr Deore 110/74 crankset, and 11-34 cassette for mountain type climbing. Can't do that with DA, not compatible.

redmanf1

Thank you very much for the help. I am not a rider that needs top tier group set, it would be nice. I do want to do the 91 paramount justice but I do not want to spend crazy money doing it.

RobbieTunes

I disagree a bit with @rccardr, having owned a pair of PDG Series 7's. They are nice, really nicely done. The lug work filing is as good as that on the Schwinn Paramount by Waterford (which I also have, right now). The unicrown fork is not popular, but that is a very nice fork, and is Tange Prestige per the Tange rep I spoke with at NAHBS. Not sure if that even makes a difference on a fork, but it's there.

I do agree that the PDG Series 7 is not, in the market, a special bike in any way. The prissy Paramount purists poo-poo anything not in their little world, and generally even each other's Paramounts, regardless of their provenance. Every bike show I've been to with a large contingent of Paramounts has no shortage of owners who are glad to show you the defects on the Paramounts that belong to others.

I doubt the OS tubing is noticeably different between the two, or the lugwork, or the weight and balance of the frame. However, one is made (gasp) in Japan, and the other in Waterford, WI. One has a lugged fork and the other has the aforementioned unicrown, which very well could be a better fork, but ugly in the eyes of the lugged world.

The main difference is the locale of manufacture, and the decals. The paint is probably better on the Series 7, as far as quality, and the Series Paramounts suffered from huge decals that mar up easily, with little remedy. Likewise, the lettering on the '91 is susceptible to damage, even from masking tape.

Obviously, if the white '91 fits, you should build it and ride it, and given the size differences, the '92 does not. If you want to run 6400 "tricolor" on your '91, I see no reason not to. I don't think it begs Campagnolo, but a nice frame like that should simply have a nice group on it, and be ridden.

That '92 looks like it's an effective 53cm, more or less. I'd not mind having it. I already have the 8-sp "tricolor" group sitting here. And this, which
now is running the full 7700 group, with the mid-cage 7700GS RD and a 7700 crankset instead of the Campy you see pictured here.