jefnvk

I just am pointing out that all the benefits of DT shifting have nothing to do with them being on the DT, rather them being simple "pull a cable around a round lever" shifters, the functional equivalent of which come in numerous forms and can be mounted in a variety if locations that are easier to access.

Other than a subjective "they are crisper", I still haven't seen an argument that there is a better reason to locate them down there over the bars.

desconhecido 

edit: corrected spelling

Oh man, I love John Hiatt From the same record, I think:
Bet Hiatt uses brifters of some sort.

rdrummond

benadrian

I was working on my friend's bike yesterday. It's an 80s Bottecchia with a weird mishmash of bits. The shifters are Shimano 600 7 speed. I got them tuned up and then rode it down to the LBS to get some help removing the pedals. I found myself really enjoying the down tube shifters.

I don't think I'd ever want them on any kind of performance bike. However, I can totally see using them on a lightweight, steel frame city commuter. There's just nothing to them, which is fantastic. Plus, if you go to swaps or can dig through parts bins at shops, some of these older components are basically free.

Now I want to build up a steel city comuter...

Ben

SouthFLpix

I think downtube shifters make sense on a touring bike. The front mech works better as a friction shift when using with a triple because it can be trimmed easily, and otherwise triples are notoriously difficult to keep in perfect tune. Since we are not talking about racing here, the downtube location for rear shifting is not a problem. It's not like you are going get dropped because you missed a shift. As far as the safety issue, ok just don't shift when you are in traffic. Your legs can handle a cadence of plus or minus 10 rpm for 15 seconds without any real drawbacks.

Bar-end shifters, already widely used on touring bikes, require longer cables and I think the cables are also slightly harder to change out should they require replacing on tour. So sure, DT shifters would be very nice on a touring bike, imo. Some, such as myself, would prefer that solution to bar-end shifters.

LessTruckMoBike

By way of injecting some levity, a guy I used to ride with was a hard core DT fan, and in non-indexed mode. When someone asked him why, he said "My indexing is in my hand." ;-)

jefnvk

Nah, unless you consider pushing them through 8" more of housing to be "slightly harder". Exact same setup as DT.

I do wonder for touring, would a frame mount bag interfere with DT at all, with the new bikepacking trends?

redhead

I have Dura Ace 7800 10-speed down tube shifters on 3 bikes and 7400 8-speed on 1 bike. My other bikes have 7800 STI. I like both down tube shifters and STI and use each depending on the ride. 7800 down tube shifters are amazing - the front in particular is very fast and smooth.

goldcoastjon

Have you tried Campagnolo and SRAM brifters or onl Shimano STIs?

I like the Simplex Retrofriction DT shifters on my 1972 Windsor Pro Eroica Bike: they work on friction, not indexing, but friction-shifting (along wioth the now-automatic corrections involved) is just as easy for me as shifting the Campagnolo brifters on my Eisentraut's handlebars. (The only difference is the time and effort needed to move my hands off the bars when using the DT levers.)

I would not mind seeing DT shift levers for the various "brifter" systems, as long as they are made for Campagnolo derailleurs as well as Shimano and SRAM ones...

dddd

I see 5 pages and counting on this topic of choice.

I have to admit that I read just a few postings, but wonder if it has been mentioned that how a bike is set up has a whole lot to do with how well a particular type of shifter is liked.

For example, the fit/sizing issue and resulting stem length, how the rider is positioned relative to the shifters and to the the style of riding.

Then there is the matter of whether the gear ratios are tightly-spaced relative to the terrain.

And for me, since I prefer FRICTION downtube levers, how well does the shifting system's action perform (i.e., are the chain and cogs a good match for each other, has the derailer been adjusted to position the guide pulley quite close to the cogs, and how smoothly that the cabling operates (and how much elasticity has been eliminated, as at the ferrule junctions where the housings are stopped). DT levers work so well in part due to their shortest-possible lengths of cabling!

Under the right set of conditions, downtube levers seem very ergonomic, especially friction levers with their potentially lower operating-force requirements.
But with a tall stem, or with the gearing not suited to the degree that the terrain rolls, or with a poorly-performing derailer, I can imagine that DT levers would seem like a burden despite their inherent simplicity and reliability.

One more thing for me has to do with having to drop to the seated position in order to shift a DT lever. But here I can make this less of an effort by having my saddle positioned relatively far forward, such that the transition between seated and standing on the pedals (due to there being less of a "heave" effort going from one position to the other) is lightning-quick, so with less loss of momentum. This is why a traditional racing position works so well, and why riders of old were able to make their way over hilly terrain with such limited gearing.

And no matter what type of DT levers one chooses, I recommend keeping these (usually old) mechanisms well-lubricated. I've often been amazed how much better they work after some lube has been fed in that penetrates to the pivot. Even if it's just some decent spray lube, dried-out levers really respond to thorough lubrication!

cs1

mstateglfr 

yup, they all had success with em as its what was available at the time.

Not a good point for or against bringing them back.

cs1

79pmooney

If you watch the movie (DVD) Stars and Watercarriers where Merckx wins his (first, I believe) Giro d'Italia. you will see him powering away after his rival, Fuentes, struggles with his bar-end shifter

Ben

mstateglfr 

so the abilities of one of the greatest riderd in history is what we should use as a baseline for equipment and also for rider capability?


So tiger woods can score in the 60s with a spoon, mashie, niblick, and putter. Does that mean anything for the game of golf? Of course not.
just because he may be able to be great with old tech shouldnt mean a thing for the golf industry.

same applies to cycling. Just because Merckx was incredible with downtube shifters doesnt mean they should make a comeback or that regular cyclists can use them as well as he could.
The guy could also change his jersey while riding, a task that would lead to many common riders to slam into the pavement.

but hey, a great rider used DT shifters well so obviously amateur riders should climb and shift at the same time.

justridingalong

DT shifters already have made a comeback on L'Eroica bikes along with toe clips. I rode bikes with DT shifters, I did not need any stinkin' indexing. I have a bike with Dura Ace barend shifters I like them more than dt shifters. It's all about personal preference.

justridingalong

I bet when Eddy rides his bike now it has Campy brifters, not dt shifters. I never try to tell anyone else that they are using equipment that I don't think is correct. Riders can refer to veloluminatti for correction on everything bike.

bcpriess

OP, you are high. There are exactly zero reasons to use DT shifters in 2018. Zero. Brifters are great, barcons are great, thumbies are great, click shifters are great. They are all great because they don't force you to take your hands off the bars and bend over, to shift. DT's just....suck. The only way you could get me to ride with DTs is if the time were limited to a few hundred miles and at the end you were giving me a Cutthroat. They are never coming back.

jefnvk

You missed this argument about four pages back. Merckx used downtubes because that was the state of the art tech that was available when he raced. If the same guy was racing today, no doubt he'd have an 11s e-shift setup on a carbon bike. The tech that was used had no effect on him being dominant. In any case, back then there was undoubtedly someone sitting around wondering why these kids needed downtube shifters, when in their day they raced on 3 speed SAs or used rods mounted on the seat tube to shift.

Arguing that one can figure out how to do something isn't really a compelling argument towards using it either. Non-power steering isn't that hard to use in cars, I don't see many people (beyond maybe the Miata cult) begging for it.

Caliper

Or the drops. Basically the places where your hands are when riding a bike, right? Actually, Campy Ergo shift is easier to use from the drops, the thumb lever is a bit annoying from the hoods, especially when on the power. I suppose if your hands are on the bar top, then ergo shifters may be slowed a bit, but who rides there very much? That one second makes a difference though. How much it matters for most of us just depends on how much you value bragging rights with your friends.

I see now why you don't need to bend down to shift - that's one tiny frame! Your shifters are practically mounted to the top tube. I ride frames in the range of 58-62cm. Yes, I definitely have to shift my upper body down to reach DT shifters.


I honestly have to say my best shifting bike has 9sp Campy Ergoshift. Shifts are fast and silent on the rear, only a tiny bit of noise from a front shift. Maybe I never had any high end DT shifter though. I still prefer SRAM because of the ergonomics of their shifter paddle that lets me shift more easily from more hand positions. It may shift with a "click - ka-chunk", but it puts me in the gear I want faster than anything else.

Caliper

Strange thing though, during his entire racing career he never managed to beat a single rider with brifters!

One silly point deserves another...

indyfabz

Pantani using one DT shifter beat guys using brifters. So did Amstrong and Hampsten, among others. Of course, they were for the FD.

TimothyH

Are pros really the benchmark?

Their wins have as much to do with dosing as it does equipment.


-Tim-

indyfabz

See post #122 . That is all.

jefnvk

Think I mentioned it on page 1, but you can use something like this and whatever Shimano DT indexed shifters you want. There are a few clamp-on options.

https://www.jensonusa.com/Problem-Solvers-Downtube-Shifter-Mount-Black-318mm-Clamp-With-Shims-For-286?pt_source=googleads&pt_medium=cpc&pt_campaign=shopping_us&pt_keyword=&gclid=CjwKCAiAiarfBRASEiwA w1tYvztVXN5jq1M5ESxYtqbiCWY9O_NiClla_9PJ9cfG3GTfF_RLEufLZhoCOcQQAvD_BwE