fietsbob

Yea but here all you can expect is opinions...
empirical data, analysis has a cost.
in Money .


I expect you have an office at your job to keep your professor's costume..

Go for it. change your kit when you get there....





I , retired, commute to the Bar, for happy Hour

[Summer, part time, its a concrete shop floor, I Must Stand on.]






...

acidfast7

I also have a shower across the hallway but I simply like stating that I can commute in street clothes. It makes me feel more European than my permanent residence.

Steely Dan

yes, they were all more serious roadies who had SPD-SL or other clipless systems that don't allow for a recessed cleat like good old SPD's do.

when they saw me get on just fine with SPD's and recessed cleat shoes that i could walk around in perfectly fine off of the bike, nods of "that's the way to go" were registered.




there's no "clicking". on tile, terrazzo, wood, smooth-finished concrete, and other hard surface flooring, they are silent. it's only on broom finished exterior concrete that they make a slight crunching sound.

on the front end of that LEJOG trip i spent 4 days in london touring the sites of the city via foot and the tube. i walked all over the place and rode the tube numerous times in those recessed cleat shoes and no one said a word.

they don't look like bike shoes, just generic sneakers. and they don't make any noise unless you're outdoors walking on rough concrete.




a street-look SPD shoe with recessed cleat could probably work on your commute (or just about anyone's for that matter), but you have prioritized other aspects of functionality/utility for your bike commuting that have steered you away from any kind of clipless pedal system. and that's perfectly ok. we all decide on what works best for us based on our own individual needs and desires.

but it's not like it would be impossible for me to duplicate your multi-modal commute using combo pedals and an SPD shoe with recessed cleats.

noglider 

There are plenty of SPD shoes that are fine for walking. I own a few. I even have SPD sandals and SPD running shoes. My favorite SPD shoes for riding are particularly good for hiking in the woods, as they have a goat-hoof-like sole.

I keep slip-on shoes at the office. My SPD commuting shoes are loud on the floor, so I change for that reason. No big deal to me.

I have a compelling reason to prefer SPD which others won't have. I have foot problems, and the cleats help me position my feet properly.

acidfast7

I think that's fair commentary.

In the end, it would probably come down to what "street-look" looks like.

Anyhow, I gotta jet back to this documentary on extreme tickling.

edit: I guess it's Competitive Endurance Tickling (CET).

alan s 

Phil_gretz

Well...the advantages of using my riding shoes for riding are that:
- when my feet get soaked on the commute in, I can change to work shoes that are dry
- my riding shoes are already compatible with the pedals on my bike(s)
- my rain booties and neoprene thermal booties are already configured to fit my riding shoes
- I'm more confident in the wet and ice clipped in because I'm certain that I won't slip off of the pedal when under burst effort

Now, to make this work, I pre-position my work shoes, coordinated dress belts, and suits in my office. I only carry underclothes, socks, shirt and tie. This minimizes the lugging of stuff, and allows me to ride bike(s) with panniers/full mudguards when I choose, or ride more nimble bike(s) using my backpack on other occasions.

As for more or less efficiency, I can only say that I'm able to engage various muscle groups by how I move my feet. When clipped in, you don't have to resort to the piston up-and-down that is so typical of lazy riders. You can "scrape the mud" or "circle" or "ankle" or whatever style of riding you prefer in the moment. But it's not scientifically based, it's just my experience after 45 years of riding.

PaulRivers

They've done studies in the lab on a bike on a trainer on pro racers and less formal experiements with amateur racers.

Assertion: Clipless is in inherently faster.
Result: False. Clipless vs flat shoes measure exactly the same speed/distance in the lab.

It's Not About Pulling Up: Why Flat Pedals Work | Nourish Balance Thrive
Effect of Pedaling Technique on Mechanical Effectiveness and Efficiency in Cyclists, Korf et al. DOI: 10.1249/mss.0b013e318043a235
Effects of Pedal Type and Pull-Up Action during Cycling, Mornieux et al. DOI 10.1055/s-2008-1038374
Both studies offer compelling evidence that support the idea that clipless pedals offer no mechanical advantage over flat pedals.

Assertion: Clipless lets you pull up with your hamstrings so it's faster
Result: Ekg's showed that pro racers unweight the pedal that's going up but do not pull up with their hamstrings.
One can change their pedalling technique to use the hamstrings but the results say that people winning races are not doing it so it's most likely not the strongest/most efficient way to pedal.

https://www.quora.com/Are-clipless-p...more-efficient
Thomas Korff reported in Effect of Pedaling Technique on Effectiveness and Efficiency in Cyclists that gross metabolic efficiency was lower when cyclists were instructed to pull-up (19.0+/-0.7% versus 20.2+/-0.6%).

Assertion: Clipless is more efficient.
Result: I haven't seen anything that shows a major difference. In close differences, one study will say clipless is a hair more efficient, another one will actually suggest flats are a hair more efficient. And these studies are on people who have been training and racing with clipless so if anything you'd think they'd start off with a clipless advantage. The conclusion to me is that any difference is to small to consistently measure.

Assertion: Clipless gives you an advantage in being able to pull up and do short sprints faster (though at the cost of more energy).
Result: There aren't really any results on this as it's to hard to measure and do a scientific study on. It's possible. I've seen more casual videos testing this out and being faster in a short sprint with clipless. Keep in mind that it's a cost tradeoff - you expend more energy but go faster for the sprint.

Assertion: Clipless attached to the pedals better than flats.
My Experience: My feet wouldn't stay entirely secure on the plastic pedals with regular shoes. I saw I could buy pedals with rougher edges that were better for grip but they looked like they might have issues with foot comfort. What's really improved grip is Five Ten flat shoes...they use a special grippy rubber that together with pedals with pins makes them grip the pedal so much I have to lift my foot off the pedal to reposition it (or I could remove some of the pedals pins). They grip the pedal solidly down, forward, and back. Vs Clipless, obviously clipless continues to grip if you pull your foot up while flats do not. That's also the learning curve you have with clipless that you don't have with flats though - learning to clip out by twisting your foot to the side, rather than the natural motion of pulling your foot up off the pedal. Again I could see how clipless could be an advantage for people racing who are in a wild all out sprint in a pack of riders and keeping your foot solidly connected to the pedal. Not really a situation I run into in average riding though.

Comfort: Some people are equally comfortable with either one. I think a lot of people are going to be more comfortable with flats. I personally am - clipless gave me knee pain and hotspots on my feet when riding. On the other hand, some people on the forum have said their particular leg pain was solved by a professional fitter putting them on clipless and locking their feet (with clipless) into the ideal position on the pedal.

I use Five Ten Freeriders and Dmr Vault pedals and it's by far the most comfortable I've ever been on the bike.
https://www.adidasoutdoor.com/five-t...07_color=Black
https://www.dmrbikes.com/Catalogue/P...lt-2/Vault-NEW

Clipless is a good system. If people ask me what they should wear I say either flats or clipless. My one beef with clipless is mainly the overhype and some people putting people in dangerous situations trying to pressure them to use it. To use clipless safely it does require getting used to the "twist to side" motion to unclip. A few people never acclimate to it which would make clipess dangerous for those people. I'm not a fan of the "I bought some clipless last week and through them on the bike now I'm going on a long fast ride today hope I can unclip" philosophy. The other group of people is people who falling over at any speed is most likely going to seriously injure or kill them. I mean if you're already used to using clipless it's fine but like my dad is part of a seniors bike club and there's one guy who's always trying to talk the other senior into switching to clipless. If you're 75 and likely risk permanent injury if you fall over, there's absolutely no reason to try clipless at all. It's all completely unnecessary risk.

If I was racing I'd probably go back to trying even more stuff to get clipless to work for me, but I'm not, so I find the convenience of flats along with the "basically no difference in speed" far more appealling. I love that I end a ride with my feets and knees feeling just fine with flats. Many people don't have problems like that with clipless but I did. I enjoy not having to switch between 2 pairs of shoes every time I ride. I do wear bike-specific five tens but I often just keep wearing them until the end of the day after riding because they're the same comfort as my regular shoes. I enjoy not having the small mental overhead of remembering that I'm wearing clipless on the bike, and not having to worry I'll put a cleated foot down and fall over because I'm on some more slippery surface (like those painted crosswalk lines). I personally definitely prefer flats.

acidfast7

This is a post that I can get behind. It has some data.

I understand that this splits both ways which are encapsulated here but I want minimum overhead when I commute and I don't like having a second set of clothes/shoes. I want to look stylish when I get off the bike to buy a coffee to get back on the bike. I also want to park the bike and go directly into the hall to deliver a lecture.

I do see a lot of compelling reasons to give it a shot should those items not bother someone.

Thanks for the response.

fietsbob

I recall Mavic gave a go at making a magnetic shoe-pedal combination ..

may not have flown far..

dabac

noglider 

So now you have enough confirmation to stick with what you know and like, and that's fine. Or you can try clipless if you're curious. I strongly recommend SPD over the other systems. On most shoes, the cleats are recessed and don't interfere with walking much, if at all. And there is a huge variety of pedals and shoes available.

fietsbob

@ one point A shoe company made w walkable shoe to use a Look Style Cleat,
target market was spinning classes.. the horse shoe like rim around the cleat
made it look rather like the shoes Dr Frankenstein fitted on the creature..

But Platform shoes were a fashionable thing for a while..



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RubeRad

+100

RubeRad

+99

RubeRad

+1000000

RubeRad

I've been bike-commuting basically full time (90+ percent?) for going on 6 years. The first couple years I clipped in with SPDs. It was fine, whatever. But when my shoes wore out (the lining, not the soles), I was faced with the herculean (to me) task of shopping for new bike shoes. I have wide feet, my old shoes never really fit (I just bought them probably 2 sizes too long so they'd be wide enough), and I was looking at spending probably $150 for properly fit shoes, and driving all over town to find a bike shop well-stocked enough to have shoes I could try on, or mail-ordering and probably returning.

So I said F it, bought pinned platform pedals instead, and wear sneakers. It's still fine, whatever. I still have dedicated cycling shoes, but they cost me $3 at salvation army. By now, every few months I have to re-shoe-goo flapping sole pieces that get torn up by the pins. I don't carry extra shoes to work, I keep 'work' shoes (nicer sneakers) in a locker, if I didn't have a locker I could keep them in my cube. (Same with jeans). If I walk around a store, I never click.

I still consider myself anti-clipless in the following sense; there are people who race bikes, and have money, for them the marginal benefit is so worthwhile, and the value of the money so relatively small, that it makes sense for them to buy clipless cycling shoes. Fine. (be that way)

But there are hordes of cyclists for whom the benefits are too marginal, and/or the cost too high, to justify clipless shoes/pedals (and spandex, and carbon, and...), but they have been conned by marketing (and peer pressure from similarly-conned people around here) into buying these unnecessary products; which is a waste of their money, and also frivolous consumption of resources (materials, labor, energy, shipping).

I don't like it. I'm no green enviro-nazi, I just don't like waste.

Steely Dan

i'm not conned by marketing (or peer pressure or others on BF), i simply prefer being locked onto the pedals when i ride.

platform pedals are also good for riding with regular old shoes, which is why i've always ridden with combo pedals (i have a thing for versatility).

are people who have a difference in preference from you always "conned" by something in your eyes?



also, clipless pedals & shoes don't have to be unusually expensive. forte campus combo pedals can be picked up for 40 bucks (30 bucks when they're on sale). my oldest set of them is still going strong after 11 years of commuting! and my first set of recessed cleat SPD shoes cost me 80 bucks and lasted a decade (or $8/year). last year i bought a replacement pair for $100. hopefully i'll get another decade out of those ($8 - $10 per year on cycling shoes is not a back breaking expense for my budget).

RubeRad

my SPD pedals (used off eBay) were cheaper than that, and my (wrong size) Forte shoes were about $80, and I regret wasting the money when I could have spent $25 on Wellgo MG-X pedals off fleabay in the first place, and $0 on dedicated shoes, and never had to click around any grocery stores.

I'm just pathologically cheap, and always against going beyond paying-for-quality into the realm of wasting-for-diminishing-returns

Steely Dan

but those diminishing returns are completely a matter of personal perspective.

i've done plenty of bike riding on platforms and i've done plenty of bike riding on SPD pedals.

i've ridden bikes both ways; i haven't been "conned" by marketing or peer-pressure or other BF'ers.

i simply would much rather be locked on to the pedal for any kind of bike riding that's more than a mile or so. i just like it better. it's as simple as that.

if i prefer item A over item B, then the cost for procuring A over B may well be worth it for me if my preference for it is strong enough (and in this case it most definitely is).




and FWIW, in 11 years of daily SPD bike commuting, i've never clicked around any grocery stores either (and i've been in plenty of grocery stores over that stretch).

RubeRad

You must not be fat enough to compress the soles. I always clicked unless on carpet.

Steely Dan

at 190, i have plenty of fat on my body (i'm the victim of a savage pizza & beer addiction).

my guess is that the recess well on the SPD shoes you had wasn't sufficiently deep to avoid having the cleat making make contact with the floor surface.

as i posted earlier in the thread, the only time my recessed cleat SPD shoes have made noise is when walking over rough finish exterior concrete paving. there is a small crunching noise in that circumstance which, after 11 years, i have learned to tune out.

RubeRad

They were Forte somethingorother, I've only ever had the one pair of SPD shoes. And at the time, I would have had 50 pounds on you.

fietsbob

Forte likely rebadged Welgo for Perfoemance Inc /Nashbar

delbiker1 

I am one of the riders that uses SPD type shoes and also non-cleated shoes. I like both styles and it mostly depends on how and where I am going to be pedaling. The only thing that should matter is what you are comfortable with and what you prefer. I have both recessed cleat type shoes and non-recessed type. I have two sided pedals, both side the same style, and two sided pedals with SPD on one side and non-cleated on the other. I also have one sided pedals that are SPD but no one sided platform. Lately I have been asking myself why so many pedals and shoes. I cannot answer that in a definitive way that makes sense. I have been using the platform shoe/pedal type more in the past year or so. I think it puts less stress on my knees, ankles and feet. I know for sure that my knees and feet get more sore, quicker when I am using the cleated shoe/pedal style. As for stiffness of the sole, I never really paid that much attention to it. I like comfortable.