KC8QVO

Are there any others that prefer white gas?

What is your methodology for resupplying on a trip?

Why I question it is I buy it in 1 gallon jugs. That isn't practical on a trip to buy a 1 gallon jug.

With my math I use up to 3.6oz/day. That is cooking at least 2 meals and heating up drinks throughout the day. I have 41oz storage in the bottles I have. So that would get me 11 days unless I conserve and that is on the low side of my potential trek timing.

I'm not sure if there is a way to refill my bottles on-the-go if the fuel only comes in a gallon jug.

I do have a canister stove also but I am not sure I want to toss it in as that is one more thing and I prefer using white gas anyway.

Maybe another big fuel bottle is the direction I should go, but then if I dont use it that is all "extra" also.

andrewclaus

Back when I carried a gas stove, I'd beg for fuel at campgrounds every couple of weeks. Of course I'd offer to pay, but nobody ever accepted money. Usually a few stories were welcome, and that often led to a meal, some beverages, and conversation around a fire into the night. Great way to meet people.

I've paid it back to my Warmshowers guests. I keep fuel on hand, gas and alcohol, to top off tourists' bottles.

Tourist in MSN

Buy another fuel bottle.

Some people burn auto fuel, I almost never do. About three years ago i bought just a bit of auto fuel (less than 25 cents) because I only needed enough for maybe one more meal.

The retailers that sell coleman fuel in 1 quart containers are rare, but some do. That said, a quart sometimes costs almost as much as a gallon.

I generally assume that the maximum I would use is 65 grams per day per person. Usually use much less, that 65 grams includes plenty of contingency. I see you budgeted more at 3.6 oz per day, not clear if that was by weight or fluid oz. But you are smart to calculate how much you need per day.

KC8QVO

That calculation was from using 2/3 of an 11oz bottle over the course of basically 2 full days camping - dinner night 1, a full day in camp, then breakfast and drinks the next day before hiking out. That was in mild weather, but the same theory applies to cooler temps - hot drinks in addition to food, not just a quick meal 2-3 times a day.

I would think that amount is on the high side of use-per-day, but I'd rather use a higher value and over-budget a certain amount than to not budget enough. By the same token, if I used closer to 1/2 that amount of fuel the days it would last would, likewise, go up. I'd just rather know I can get by even if the temps drop and I'm reheating drinks a couple times a day etc.

saddlesores

not really a big problem.

latest price online is one gallon crown brand at walmart for $8.86 (+tax).
128 ounces.....you can carry 41 ounces with your current setup.

i useta hang around the wally world lot for a few minutes until
i saw some dude in a pickup decked out for camping/fishing.
"hey buddy, i bought more than i can carry. here ya go, enjoy!"
that's not so hard. didn't waste it, nor dump it on the ground.
five bucks. no big deal.

if the thought of "wasting" five dollars really ruins your vibe, just carry
an (empty) extra one quart metal turpentine/spirits can and you'll
have nearly a two-week supply. only wasted a couple bucks.

or just buy the quart can at walmart for $5.27.......

cyccommute 

Coleman fuel is petroleum naphtha. Depending on where you are touring, you might be able to find quart quantities in hardware stores or paint stores. Look for VM&P naphtha. Lowes sells it in quart quantities as does Ace Hardware (which may be easier to find in a smaller town). Another option would be charcoal lighter fluid.

If you are riding close to a HellMart...and you are always riding close to a HellMart..., you can order quart quantities of Coleman Fuel ahead but timing might be an issue. It looks like it takes about 2 weeks to arrive. But...damn...$25 a quart!!!!!

If you are willing to experiment before the tour, I’d try mineral spirits. It’s similar enough to Coleman Fuel that it should work but you should try it to see if it causes any excess soothing problems. I’d probably do some tests with the other fuels as well, just to be on the safe side.

saddlesores

wally world crown white gas:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crown-Cam...Quart/51741743 $5.27

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crown-Cam...allon/51741744 $8.86

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/7c7...d&odnBg=ffffff

cyccommute 

Your Google foo is better than mine. I knew they had quarts of some kind of liquid fuel.

I’d still suggest looking at charcoal lighter fluid since you can find that even in a grocery store.

KC8QVO

I've never tried to run anything but "white gas" in my stove - MSR Simmerlite. I know they have an "International" version that will run on a lot of different fuels, but mine is not that.

Can you, or anyone else, comment on the performance of other fuels in a non-International/Multi-Fuel version stove?

I would imagine the fuel jet would be the main concern with the fuel getting through to the burner effectively. However, what about soot and the cleanliness of the run?

cyccommute 

I can’t say too much about how the stove would work because I don’t use liquid fuel stoves. But, from a fuel standpoint, lighter fluid and “white gas” are extremely similar to each other. They would likely burn the same way and not require a different jet. Mineral spirits is also extremely similar with a slight lower flash point. I doubt it would have a problem either.

Best way to see is to try it. I’d boil the same amount of water with at least the white gas and lighter fluid and see if they take different times as well as observing the flame to see if it is sooty or a different color. If you want to try it add in mineral spirits.

saddlesores

you're right! googling is not for amateurs! takes years of patient training.
(no forum members were harmed in this posting)

anyway, that $25/quart listing is sold THRU, not BY, hellmart.
it's like an amazon affiliated seller that flogs junk on amazon's platform.
sold and shipped by mcnile company, delivery only, NO store pickup.

wally has gallon cans of coleman fuel for $13.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-5...1-Gal/20703040

indyfabz

Heating up drinks throughout the day? Other than my morning camp coffee, if I want something hot during the day I’ll stop at a c-store or similar place. I cook (as opposed to heat up) dinners and will occasionally toast a bagel for breakfast. Been able to last two-weeks using my Dragonfly with 32 Oz. bottle even using a bit of fuel to start campfires.

staehpj1

I had never read or heard that paint department products or charcoal lighter was possibly a substitute for Coleman fuel. I always thought charcoal lighter fluid was more like kerosene, but I don't claim to know much about it so I was probably wrong. A few online references say things like "Charcoal lighter fluid is a flammable fluid used to accelerate the ignition of charcoal in a barbecue grill. It can either be petroleum based (e.g., mineral spirits) or alcohol based (usually methanol or ethanol)."

The Crown products that you refer to look like they are Mineral Spirits so I am assuming other brands that seem ubiquitous like Klean Strip would work too.

For my use even a quart seems like quite a bit to carry at a time, but could be doable. The notion of carrying a gallon of fuel seems pretty crazy to me based on my usage and habits. My thinking is along the lines of buying as frequently as possible and carrying as little as possible in general, so for example I tend to buy food for dinner late in the day near camp when possible. Taking a gallon of fuel on a coast to coast trip might mean carrying some fuel from one coast to the other. To a guy who minimizes what he carries that is unthinkable. I guess that sometimes pints are available.

It is good to know that I have more options for my whisperlite multifuel. If I were to use it on a long tour I might just use gasoline, but otherwise I might just have someone mail me pints of fuel. Not sure on mailing mineral spirits but I suspect it is fine for maildrops via general delivery. I'd check first to be sure you don't have to follow ORM-D labeling or use surface mail, but I don't think that is the case (you do need to do that for iso butane canisters).

Tourist in MSN

Don't try charcoal lighter fluid in a stove designed for what is commonly known as white gas or I prefer to call it Coleman Fuel because everybody knows what Coleman fuel is.

There is some ambiguity on the phrase white gas, thus I avoid using that term. Some people have confused white gas with white spirits, so I prefer to avoid that confusion, that is why I prefer the phrase Coleman fuel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_gas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit

Charcoal lighter fuel has a flash point close to kerosene, near 100 degrees (F). I have tried charcoal lighter in a stove that could burn kerosene and it worked fine. I however only tried it to see if it would work in the event of an emergency, I have not used charcoal lighter on an extended basis.

But Coleman fuel has a flashpoint closer to automotive gasoline, about minus 40 degrees.

The generator in a stove for kerosene has to be much hotter than for Coleman fuel to vaporize the fuel. And Coleman fuel has a different ideal ratio of oxygen to fuel mixture than kerosene which is why some multi-fuel stoves use a different jet for each fuel type. Thus, a stove designed for Coleman fuel is not going to work well or might not work at all with charcoal lighter fluid.

Even stoves rated for kerosene, I usually mix it about one part Coleman Fuel, three parts kerosene, preheating the generator usually works much better and a bit less soot. And my personal experience is that mixture works well on a kerosene jet.

I should note here that I am in USA, so is the OP, I mention that because there is huge variation in the names used globally for different fuels. More on that here:
https://www.msrgear.com/blog/stove-f...reign-country/

Trevtassie

When I toured the west coast I bought 1 gallon cans and took two quarts and left the rest, still cheaper than buying by the quart, especially the Wallyworld stuff.
Mostly I now use butane cartridges, an adapter and a Kovea Spider stove. Less mess and you can find those cartridges in a lot of places.

Tourist in MSN

Years ago I had to ship a bottle of fuel to a laboratory to do a test on it. And the headaches of trying to ship it legally in proper container was such a hassle, that I ended up driving a two hour round trip to just drop the sample off to the laboratory.

Best to just buy the fuel where you can find it. Shipping combustible or flammable liquids or gasses can be a big hassle.

Last summer on my tour in Canada, some RV parks sold tall skinny butane cans that fit into a different kind of stove. This is what they were selling.
https://www.rei.com/product/172458/k...-canister-8-oz

After seeing how many RV parks sold that type of canister, after I got home I bought an adapter that would allow me to use my threaded type butane mix stove with that canister. In addition to the adapter, I already had the stand that is fitted with a hose so that I can use that type of canister.

My tour last summer, I flew there so I did not want to deal with the hassles of liquid fuel stove and airport security. Coming home, the Canadian airport security staff inspected my butane mix stove, I am sure they would have confiscated my liquid fuel stove if I had brought it.

staehpj1

Those butane canisters are cheap, available, and probably make a lot of sense. They don't fit up without hassle on all stoves since some use the canister to support the burner and those canisters are not meant to be used upright if I understand correctly. I would have to adapt some kind of legs of base to use them with my Pocket Rocket and I don't think they work with my particular model of Whisperlite.

I have mailed canisters to myself on backpacking trips, but not usually bike tours. I typically have only used my pop can stoves on recent tours and even on backpacking trips that I have flown to because:
1. They are no big deal if confiscated on the way home (I can start out with a new one, so no worries at the start of the tour).
2. Yellow bottle Heet is about the right size bottle for my needs and generally readily available.
3. Despite never actually bothering to clean them I have never had one confiscated.
4. Worst case one could even be made while on tour.

That said I do like the idea of a fuel with a higher energy density for times when I need to carry fuel to last for longer periods or for when I just need to use a lot of fuel to melt snow or something. That might be for going off road by bike, backpacking, xc skiing, or canoe tripping.

Oh, btw, straight butane isn't great in cooler temps. I have not pushed the lower limit too far, but have needed to warm canisters in my jacket for awhile when it wasn't all that cold with isobutane which is supposed to be better for cold weather.

Also, I do find mail drops very useful, but truth be told mostly for backpacking rather than for touring when it comes to food or fuel. General delivery is useful for other stuff when touring (getting prescriptions, clothing or gear suitable for changing climate, repair or replacement parts for worn items, and so on). I have sent myself fuel canisters using the ORD-D surface mail guidelines.

cyccommute 

To be clear, I said to test any fuel you might substitute at home where you can clean the stove if it doesn’t work.

While these can be confused, there really isn’t so much of a difference between the properties for the confusion to cause much of a problem. They are both petroleum distillates with similar properties and slightly different boilI got and flash points.

Most of the confusion comes from the fact that the vast majority of the population has no clue as to the chemistry of most anything. For example, the Wikipedia page on “white gas” says that white gas is the equivalent of “pure” gasoline for automotive use. I assure you that it is not. “White gas” has an octane rating of about 50. Put in a gasoline engine and the engine won’t last very long.

Again, my advice is to try it at home to see if it works. If it doesn’t, no harm, no foul. Perhaps carrying a different jet would allow a user to extend the fuel range. Jet changes aren’t that difficult. Lighter fluid and mineral spirits (white spirits) are not kerosene. The carbon molecules in lighter fluid and mineral spirits have 6 to 10 carbons per molecule while kerosene has 12 to 20 carbons per molecule. There are several other properties that would make the materials perform differently.

Again, test it at home.

No it doesn’t. People often see the word “gas” and immediately go to gasoline. “White gas” and “gasoline” aren’t even close to the same materials nor do they have the same properties. “White gas” has a flash point of 0°F (-18°C).Automotive gasoline has a flash point of -40°C (-40°F). “White gas” is flammable. Automotive gasoline is damned close to an explosive.

Again, lighter fluid and mineral spirits aren’t kerosene. They burn differently. The boiling points are also different. Kerosene has a higher boiling point. And, yet again, test at home.

Tourist in MSN

Maybe the shipping rules have changed since I had to tranport a bottle of fuel to a laboratory for testing, but I still plan to avoid shipping fuel.

***
They no longer make these stove supports, when I bought mine I did not realize that they would soon be hard to find.
https://www.rei.com/product/777514/b...ster-converter

But you might be able to find a similar product. With my new adapter for the tall skinny butane bottle to the threaded type connection, that should work.

***
I have often set my butane mix type canisters in a shallow pan of warm water, even a canister that is close to empty will provide good heat that way. Warm, not hot, hot water could over-pressurize the canister. I have a plastic lid for a really big jar, inverted the plastic lid will hold up to a half inch of water, only weighs 25 grams. You might have seen two pound whey protien jars on the shelf in some stores, that is where my lid came from. I do not think it will work on the 450 gram cannisters, but the 220 gram canisters, it fits perfectly. Before I got that plastic lid, I would use anything handy, including a cooking pot lid.

KC8QVO

This doesn't look as well made but looks similar in function:
https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Outdo...000098&sr=8-79

Oddly enough, I have one of those stoves that uses the long skinny butane bottles. I actually bought it as a universal style stove as it came with the converter kit for running on propane. I use a lot of the 1lb propane bottles for general outdoor cooking etc (I bought the Flameking refillable bottles + kit a couple years ago) and that has seemed to work well. Between the single burner universal butane/propane unit and my suitcase grill/burner combo I have quite a bit of cooking options for other occasions - just not cycling/backpacking friendly.

With that having been said, with one of those remote stands and an adapter for those long skinny butane bottles I could adapt to a 1lb propane bottle also. Not sure how that would work on a cannister stove, but interesting idea.

It sounds like my 2 options are to get another bottle for white gas or throw in the cannister stove. The cannister stove would be the smallest/lightest option. Then if I get low on white gas stop somewhere and get a butane cannister. Or bring one along and use it to take some load off the white gas (less hassle to run for quicker runs as opposed to starting the white gas stove).

Tourist in MSN

On some of these issues, you may be right, my comparison is based on how it operates in a stove.

And I have lit Coleman fuel in the priming cup when the temperatures are well below zero (F). But, the Coleman fuel did not light very easily in the priming cup at minus 36 (F) which I attributed to several year old fuel.

I am not going to get drawn into a long argument here.

Tourist in MSN

That Amazon link might work with either type of butane cartridge, the threaded ones that have a butane mix or the long skinny ones that usually are pure butane. If you want to experiment with propane that is your call but I would not due to the much higher pressure. And propane on a bike trip, the steel tank is quite heavy, which is why the butane mix stove canisters are much more popular for backpacking and cycle touring. I have some of those small propane cylinders for my Weber grill, empty they are still quite heavy.

If I was you, I would just get the second liter fuel bottle. Yes it adds weight and takes a bit of room in the pack, but you know you have it and you won't have to go exploring looking for fuel after the first tank is empty.

Before I retired, my vacations were a week long, it was easy to carry enough fuel for a week.

But now that I am retired, most vacations range from 2 to 6 weeks, on vacations that long I am more inclined to buy fuel along the way. My trip last summer, I had my route planned out, and along that route I knew that there was a store that I could expect to buy a threaded canister, which is what I did.

pdlamb

Half a century ago, white gas was simply gasoline without lead, e.g., Pure (later Amoco). We made a special stop at a Pure gas station on one trip to get fuel for an even older Primus stove. (Too expensive to put in the car!)

Leebo

i use denatured alcohol in my trangia. Similar?

andrewclaus

Oh, that never happens here.