Do gravel tires feel a lot slower to you than road tires?
01-05-18, 03:07 PM
#51
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Right. That's basically what I just said.
6 watts difference between GP and Hypers is what I would call a 'handful.' And like I said...I think that difference gets eaten up by less than perfect pavement. Given the right road conditions, I think it's entirely possible the Hypers could be faster.
But the real takeaway from this should be they're all FAST tires. One is skinny and fast, the other is wide and fast. Which is fastER? Probably the GP, but IMO it depends.
6 watts difference between GP and Hypers is what I would call a 'handful.' And like I said...I think that difference gets eaten up by less than perfect pavement. Given the right road conditions, I think it's entirely possible the Hypers could be faster.
But the real takeaway from this should be they're all FAST tires. One is skinny and fast, the other is wide and fast. Which is fastER? Probably the GP, but IMO it depends.
01-05-18, 03:13 PM
#52
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rarely are there guys like you guys with voyagers, and steel bikes, in the A groups on road group rides, We all know what the A group guys are riding and what the difference is.
and a voyager Hyper will never be in the A group or B group on a gravel ride.
and a voyager Hyper will never be in the A group or B group on a gravel ride.
01-05-18, 03:19 PM
#53
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My head just hurts now 
01-05-18, 03:20 PM
#54
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Why would I want to be there? I just chimed in because it was a bit ridiculous that you used rolling resistance data without talking about tyre pressure...
My Voyagers have like 12 watts of rolling resistance...
At only 10 bar!
If the one and only thing you care about is average speed I think the best bang for your buck would be to get a scooter.
Last edited by Facanh; 01-05-18 at 03:25 PM.
01-05-18, 03:25 PM
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but hey if you don't care about average speeds, and dpon't even know what your average speed is, that proves my point.
Last edited by Metieval; 01-05-18 at 03:28 PM.
01-05-18, 03:30 PM
#56
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P.S. If anyone is interested, Hypers are on sale for under $25 
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TYVIVO...r-folding-tyre
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TYVIVO...r-folding-tyre
01-05-18, 03:34 PM
#57
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Yep, it proves your point. I'm a slow rider and I don't care about avereage speed. I was slow on 23mm tyres too. I ride my bike because I like riding bikes. I don't care about Strava KOMs. I don't want to go on road group rides either. I won't have more fun on my bike because my average speed goes up.
Again, I only chimed in because it was ridiculous to use rolling resistance data without pressures, your "point" doesn't change that.
Personally I went with Voyagers because I wanted a wider tyre for the road that wasn't an overbuilt commuter tyre that feels super sluggish, and I accomplished that. That's it, really.
P.S. If anyone is interested, Hypers are on sale for under $25
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TYVIVO...r-folding-tyre
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TYVIVO...r-folding-tyre
Looks like Planet X is the cheapest place to get them.
Last edited by Facanh; 01-05-18 at 03:41 PM.
01-05-18, 11:24 PM
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01-05-18, 11:25 PM
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01-06-18, 09:17 AM
#60
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That's not how rolling resistance works, your "garmin" suggesting speed differences are attributable to the wattage difference as seen on Bicycle Rolling Resistance is nonsense. The measurements from BRR are only good for comparing similar tires that have been run through the same testing to get a general idea of overall RR. To extrapolate these measurements to differences on the road is wrong and misses the entire point of the site.
In addition, BRR tests one tire on a roller, what do you think happens when you ride a bicycle that has two tires in contact with the ground? Real life isn't going to closely mimic what you saw online as your post attempts to do. You also can't bolster your position by appealing to the authority of a popular website without offering any substantiating evidence yourself.
Nonsense, malarkey, whatever one would prefer to call it. Please post your strava or garmin connect, you type an extraordinary amount for saying very little useful information and I'm honestly curious if it's just misguided opinionating or serious trolling.
FWIW here's the tread on an MSO:
Here's a GPS4000II:
In addition, BRR tests one tire on a roller, what do you think happens when you ride a bicycle that has two tires in contact with the ground? Real life isn't going to closely mimic what you saw online as your post attempts to do. You also can't bolster your position by appealing to the authority of a popular website without offering any substantiating evidence yourself.
Nonsense, malarkey, whatever one would prefer to call it. Please post your strava or garmin connect, you type an extraordinary amount for saying very little useful information and I'm honestly curious if it's just misguided opinionating or serious trolling.
FWIW here's the tread on an MSO:
Here's a GPS4000II:
Agree though that strava/garmin/gps/etc data is meaningless for the purposes of gauging a handful of watts difference between tires. The differences we're talking about are nearly completely obscured by the range of accuracy of even very good power meters.
08-26-18, 07:06 PM
#61
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I've just put on some Clement X'PLOR MSO 40mm clinchers on to my Giant TCX, for my first gravel ride. Previously the bike was in "commuter mode" with 28mm GP4000S2 tires.
But, boy, the 40mm treaded tires certainly feel a lot slower to me than the slick road tires on paved surfaces! I haven't done any timed tests, but it feels like a lot more work pushing these tires on the flat or up-hill. Sure, they have some tread, and weigh a bit more, but they feel a *much* slower. Actually, even slower than the very knobbly 33mm Schwalbe X-One cyclocross tires that came with the bike.
Is this transition from road to gravel tires normal? Is is a question of feel more than absolute speed? (I would expect maybe a 2km/h average speed drop from what I have read, but it "feels" like a lot more.
I guess I really need to do some timed tests, with both tires, but it's fairly hard to create a completely controlled experiment with identical conditions (especially without a power meter).
What has your experience been?
But, boy, the 40mm treaded tires certainly feel a lot slower to me than the slick road tires on paved surfaces! I haven't done any timed tests, but it feels like a lot more work pushing these tires on the flat or up-hill. Sure, they have some tread, and weigh a bit more, but they feel a *much* slower. Actually, even slower than the very knobbly 33mm Schwalbe X-One cyclocross tires that came with the bike.
Is this transition from road to gravel tires normal? Is is a question of feel more than absolute speed? (I would expect maybe a 2km/h average speed drop from what I have read, but it "feels" like a lot more.
I guess I really need to do some timed tests, with both tires, but it's fairly hard to create a completely controlled experiment with identical conditions (especially without a power meter).
What has your experience been?
08-26-18, 07:22 PM
#62
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I was just about to switch and try the Clement Xplor MSOs till I read this. I switched out my road tires for gravel tires. Feeling slower is not the right words. It's more like are my brake pads touching the rotors when I ride. If anyone has a suggestion for a tubeless tire 700 x 32/35 width thats almost as fast as road tires, plus highly puncture resistant, I'm all ears.
tires are just so different in performance depending on structure that there are 35mm gravel tires which are as fast as some road tires, but slower than other road tires.
the Donnelly USH comes in 32mm tubeless. The MSO comes in 36mm tubeless.
expecting a 35mm tire to be as fast as a road tire(presumably good one like Conti gp4000) while also being highly puncture resistant is a heck of a goal.
puncture resistance means a slower tire. A wider heavier tire also, in general, means slower due to more rolling resistance.
take a wider heavier tire and add highly puncture resistance to it and its tough to think you can get a tire to be as fast as a quality road tire.
then again, if a gatorskin is what you view as a quality road tire, then there are plenty of 32/35mm gravel options thatll be similar in speed and reliability.
08-27-18, 04:31 PM
#66
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I went on a lot of group road rides with 40mm Hypers at 55psi. They were just fine. Bikerollingresistance rates them as ~5watts slower than gp4000s. And 28mm gp4000s are perfectly fine for rails trails/crushed limestone trails.
08-27-18, 05:15 PM
#67
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I ride 38mm Maxxis Ramblers.
I built my bike with no intention of riding pavement. Any I come across is incidental and just to get me back to another dirt road. I have a f ucking wonderful road bike, I can choose the right one for the day.
The Ramblers were from suggestions here. They're very light. Also supple and have great tread. The bike rides awesome, very quick and responsive. I spent quite a bit more on the wheels than I'd planned. Fact is, if you put awesome wheels on a mediocre bike, it'll ride like an awesome one. I don't know if it makes you faster but the ride is simply better.
I bet the OP has 1900+ gram wheels coupled to those tank tires. I'd be more surprised if he said it felt fast.
Feeling isn't data though. I bet there's not 20 minutes difference on a big ride between super excellent wheels and tires and factory stock.
I built my bike with no intention of riding pavement. Any I come across is incidental and just to get me back to another dirt road. I have a f ucking wonderful road bike, I can choose the right one for the day.
The Ramblers were from suggestions here. They're very light. Also supple and have great tread. The bike rides awesome, very quick and responsive. I spent quite a bit more on the wheels than I'd planned. Fact is, if you put awesome wheels on a mediocre bike, it'll ride like an awesome one. I don't know if it makes you faster but the ride is simply better.
I bet the OP has 1900+ gram wheels coupled to those tank tires. I'd be more surprised if he said it felt fast.
Feeling isn't data though. I bet there's not 20 minutes difference on a big ride between super excellent wheels and tires and factory stock.
08-27-18, 05:21 PM
#68
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So getting all my wheels set up and tested this weekend for cyclocross season, so i can provide a fairly qualitative assessment in a short time on the same bike in similar conditions. I have a park with some single track, grass fields, and gravel sections 3 blocks from my house which I use for shakedown rides and practice. Over the weekend I set up clement MSO 36c tubeless, challenge grifo 33c tubular, and had panaracer GK 38c already set up tubeless. On all surfaces the GK's were the fastest when braking and cornering weren't involved no question, and straightline traction including climbs were acceptable. The MSOs were fairly fast in a straight light with their really tight center tread, noticeably slower on pavement but on grass and gravel the differences weren't percievable, they were acceptable in turns and braking either in a straight line or in turns. The Challenges which are obviously not a gravel tire were the slowest of the bunch on all surfaces even with their relatively closely packed center knobs but were able to rail some turns in the single track and didn't induce the pucker factor that the gravel tires did even though they were significantly narrower. These were probably representative of the range of tire types you might use and the balance between speed on the flats vs descending and confidence in your area's terrain will probably dictate which tire is best for you. I'll continue to mostly use the GKs as a commuter/group ride/occasional fire road type of setup and use the MSO as an all arounder.
08-27-18, 05:27 PM
#69
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So you almost doubled the width and added knobs...and the tire feels slower. Go figure.
I've just put on some Clement X'PLOR MSO 40mm clinchers on to my Giant TCX, for my first gravel ride. Previously the bike was in "commuter mode" with 28mm GP4000S2 tires.
But, boy, the 40mm treaded tires certainly feel a lot slower to me than the slick road tires on paved surfaces! I haven't done any timed tests, but it feels like a lot more work pushing these tires on the flat or up-hill. Sure, they have some tread, and weigh a bit more, but they feel a *much* slower. Actually, even slower than the very knobbly 33mm Schwalbe X-One cyclocross tires that came with the bike.
Is this transition from road to gravel tires normal? Is is a question of feel more than absolute speed? (I would expect maybe a 2km/h average speed drop from what I have read, but it "feels" like a lot more.
I guess I really need to do some timed tests, with both tires, but it's fairly hard to create a completely controlled experiment with identical conditions (especially without a power meter).
What has your experience been?
But, boy, the 40mm treaded tires certainly feel a lot slower to me than the slick road tires on paved surfaces! I haven't done any timed tests, but it feels like a lot more work pushing these tires on the flat or up-hill. Sure, they have some tread, and weigh a bit more, but they feel a *much* slower. Actually, even slower than the very knobbly 33mm Schwalbe X-One cyclocross tires that came with the bike.
Is this transition from road to gravel tires normal? Is is a question of feel more than absolute speed? (I would expect maybe a 2km/h average speed drop from what I have read, but it "feels" like a lot more.
I guess I really need to do some timed tests, with both tires, but it's fairly hard to create a completely controlled experiment with identical conditions (especially without a power meter).
What has your experience been?
08-27-18, 05:35 PM
#70
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not only do the "feel" slower.. they actually are...
my comparison is TurboCotton 26c w/ latex vs Tubeless Schwalbe G1 speed 30C at least 2mph slower for reals.
my comparison is TurboCotton 26c w/ latex vs Tubeless Schwalbe G1 speed 30C at least 2mph slower for reals.
08-28-18, 06:26 AM
#71
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I think on another thread going right now, the consensus from people who've used both seems to be that G-One All Around is faster than non-SK Gravelkings.
08-28-18, 07:32 AM
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when I'm riding gravel I don't measure speed so much as time in the saddle
08-28-18, 08:05 AM
#73
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I usually ride to the gravel on pavement(50/50 mix), and wanted to see what a wide road tire would be like while saving my 40mm Clement Xplors for when a local trail (old, closed gravel road) finally reopens from flood damage. I swapped on a set of 32mm Continental Ultra Sport II's and it is no faster, though the cornering on pavement feels much more secure with no tread and they felt faster. Probably going to swap back and go tubeless since the Ultra Sports pretty much give up all puncture protection to be cheap and relatively fast.
08-28-18, 09:36 AM
#74
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link? I only saw the discussion on the sk version. I would be skeptical that the all around is fasteron pavement since the casing weighs over 100g more. Now the g one speed I bet would be faster but I haven't seen too many people running that one yet, at least in the 35/40 sizes.
08-28-18, 11:04 AM
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The tubeless gravel kings are ok, I wouldn't really call them good. About average I think. The 700cx38 size rolls way slower than comparable Compass tires and seems more in line with the puncture-belted Paselas than a good road tire like the GP4K or Turbo Cotton. ETA: The 650b size gravel kings are slugs - very stiff and do not roll well at all.
The Microskin G-One AA is probably the fastest rolling 38/40ish knobbie other than the Compass Steilacoom. Gravel kings are on a slower level IME.
The Microskin G-One AA is probably the fastest rolling 38/40ish knobbie other than the Compass Steilacoom. Gravel kings are on a slower level IME.