jefnvk

Actually, if you would have bothered to read any of my arguments instead of tossing out rather ridiculous arguments in favor of DT, you would note that many times I've stated that DT and barends are the exact same thing just mounted in different positions, my argument is against the fact that people who have convenient options want to purposefully inconvenience themselves for a system that served a purpose for decades but has been replaced by better tech. Even then, I'm not discouraging others, I have posted multiple times how people can easily try them out. I'm arguing that any sort of mass produced option needs to make a comeback, because quite simply it doesn't.

And while I like my barends, I like them for a couple very specific reasons, ones that have exactly nothing to do with performance whatsoever and mostly have to do with personal preference. Personal preference that most people aren't going to care for or choose to go with. Indexed DT or bar ends don't shift any better than STI.

jefnvk

As far as the "manly" and "it worked for decades" arguments, so did non power-steering boxes in cars. Outside of a few spec/autox Miata racers, I can't think of many people that want to go back to those good ol days, despite it working perfectly adequately for years and years and years under every situation from grocery getting to Le Mans. Just because something worked in absence of something better, does not make it great to begin with.

Maelochs

All you weaklings ... Shifting? Losers. Single-speed with no brakes? Bah. Safety bikes are for the lame and crippled ... best to get wheelchairs,. Pennyfarthings are just fine, more than adequate for Everybody's riding needs, whatever they might be.

But do ignore those atavists who say we should have stayed with wooden-framed push-bikes. Obviously they are extremists.

jefnvk

Penny farthings making a comeback? Finally something I can agree with, I'd love me an affordable penny farthing

Reynolds 

I for one would like cars become simpler. Only advantage of power steering is while parking, and it's more complicated and expensive.

jefnvk

I have the joy of driving prototype vehicles. The compact SUVs we have right now have some screwed up logic where PS only works above 6MPH. I know if they were designed as manual steering the input required would be different, but wide tires and no PS on those things is a straight up beeotch to turn in a parking lot. It is a niceness I can live with, and yes, my first car was a 1982 Dodge Ram with manual steering, before I'm accused of talking about things I couldn't know about. I don't miss the two foot wide steering wheel that thing had

But yeah, while I agree with you on not wanting all the features cars now have, there is a lot of auto tech that has gone by the wayside, that only (especially) curmudgeons and those with a very specific need demand, despite working just fine for decades: carbs, 4 wheel drum brakes, three on a trees, non collapsing steering shafts, bias ply tires, two point seat belts, solid rear axles (at least in cars, now that the Mustang finally gave up on it), for the most part anything over 8 cylinders in trucks and over 6 in cars, etc. It served its purpose in its day, it may still endear itself to some, but for the most part there is something better.

Cyclist0108

Today, Dec 29th, is pre-Christmas 2019. Does that count?

mstateglfr 

The limited gearing of road bikes from the 70s and 80s absolutely restricts people from enjoying cycling to their fullest.

if 39-25 works for you as bailout gearing, super. It doesn't work for many others. That's the beauty of options- everyone can customize their bikes to what works best individually.
This also obviously applies to shifting too. Those who like downtube should buy bikes with shift bosses and have a blast.
its great to have options.

you can ride your limited gearing downtube shifting bike and others can ride what they like.

deadzone

I ride 11-25 10speed cassette on my primary bike, that is hardly what I would consider limited gear range. The point is the present day road riders have become pusses when it comes to climbing as they have been conditioned to use the high cadence style and they don't know any other way. Again, for new road riders they really have no choice as every new road bike in the shop comes with compact crankset. Since they always have Mt bike granny gears available to climb with they never develop any real climbing muscles. The reality is a lot of this has to do with the aging demographic of road riders. Where I live many of the riders I see on super high end road bikes are old as dirt, I presume the compacts are targeted for them. There is no rational reason for a young, fit rider to use a compact.

Cyclist0108

I have a 46/30T paired with an 11-34T or an 11-36T cassette (depending upon the wheel-set).

I use the full range of gearing, and I don't spin.

Perhaps the hills I climb differ from yours.

mstateglfr 

- 80s steel frame road bike with 48/34 mated to 11/28 9 speed cassette.
- 80s steel frame road bike with 50/34 mated to 11/28 9 speed cassette.
- 80s steel frame road bike with 50/34 mated to 12/28 7 speed cassette.
- modern steel frame road both with 48/32 mated to 11/32 11 speed cassete.
- modern steel frame gravel bike with 46/34 mated to 11/36 11 speed cassette.

these are my drop bar bikes, excluding my touring bike as that drivetrain is obviously different from what we are discussing.

I am 37, ride a good bit, and am athletic. I dont need the full range of gearing most of the time, but it helps to have when I feel the desire to use the full range.
the road bike with a 32/32 low is ridden the most and that combo is rarely used. I think 3 times this past season. But I liked having it when I used it!

you are an interesting poster. You seem to have some seriously passionate opinions that you demand others accept as their own.
options man, options. Its the beauty of this sport.

prathmann

Yes, a common occurrence for me - or the converse. Currently my touring bike has 6-speed with a triple friction DT shifters, my tandem has 5-speed with a triple bar-end friction shifters, my folder has 8-speed indexed bar-end shifters, the bike I keep at my daughter's place has 8-speed STI with thumb-button, one road bike has 7-speed indexed DT shifters and the other has 9 speed STI shifters. So I'm constantly switching back and forth between different systems and grabbing for non-existent shifters or trying to twist brake levers that don't twist.

But they all work fine and are perfectly adequate for my type of riding (i.e. where a rare missed shift will never be of great significance).

deadzone

Those are absurdly low gear ratios. 1-1? Under what conditions would you use such a gear, a 20% incline carrying a full touring pack perhaps? Are you over-weight? If not, then that is my point, riders are conditioned nowadays to ride puss gears at super high cadence. This was popularized by Lance Armstrong, doing long climbs at 110 or so RPM. That is fine for some, but if you always climb in granny gears at 110 RPM then you will never develop leg strength.

I-Like-To-Bike

So what?

Maelochs

Why don't all hybrids come with DT shifters---and ape-hanger bars?

mstateglfr 

they aren't absurdly low. To determine this, the setups are compared to whats common on bikes and 34/28 is a very common easiest gear ratio.
I agree that 32/32 is quite low, even though some road bikes come with 1-1 ratio now for bailout gearing, it's basically the lowest I can think of for stock road bike gearing. As mentioned, I haven't used it often. But it's an 11sp cassette so its effectively like a 10sp 11-28 cassette with an extra 32t cog attached. Point being- I still have tight enough jumps and get bailout gearing for the worst of times.

70% of adults in the US are overweight or obese. What works for you many not work for many others.
I am 6'5 and 230#. I am athletic and also overweight. Even if I werent overweight, I would still be 210# and what works for a 160# adult may not work for someone thsts carrying the weight of a 7 year old too.

I have no idea why you keep ranting about Lance's style of riding. I dont use easier gearing to be like Lance. I would guess thst if you polled 100 random people riding a bike, very few would know Lance spun up hills. And fewer would care.

Stop caring about my legs or the legs of others. Once again, there is no right or wrong way to climb a hill. Slug it out with tough gearing or spin with easy gearing. Either way works.

to repeat- you seem to expect everyone to think the way you think and prefer what you prefer. Its a hobby- options allow for varied preferences.
If everyone had to ride your gearing, fewer people would ride. Simple as that.

deadzone

First of all when I am critiquing gear ratios it is in relation to high end road bikes and the folks that ride them for training, racing or sport riding, not touring or commuting. So for these types of bikes the trend toward "spinning" up long or steep climbs was first popularized by Armstrong whether you know it or not. At 230lbs you are a very large man for a cyclist, well into the Clydesdale category so there is no doubt you would need lower gearing than an average sized rider regardless of fitness level. So again it goes back to my earlier point, I believe the trend towards lower gearing (i.e. compact cranks being standard) goes to the fact that the high end road bike buying public is aging significantly which means riders who are heavier, have less muscle mass and perhaps more likely to have knee problems.

Leebo

Never knew there were cyclist sized people. All one needs to be a cyclist is a bike. They come in all shapes and sizes. Cheers.

Maelochs

This is the kind of thread most of us will read a year later ... cringing at every one of our posts.

Except me ... I have neither sense nor shame.

Some of the rest of you though .....

So ... let's make it clear, once and for all, to end this petty squabbling.

There is ONE RIGHT WAY to ride a bike, equip a bike, lube a bike, lock a bike .... and it is HOWEVER I DO TI.

if you are doing it any other way, you are wrong.

That's okay ... I am a merciful deity, and I will permit you or exist in a state of cycling sin. It saddens me, but I endure.

Ride well and do good, my children.

Ironfish653

mstateglfr 

ok, so you have your reason for why wide range road bikes exist.
great- move on. The aging population you cite cant handle the tough gearing you ride, so just be happy knowing you are a better rider and let everyone ride whst they want/need

BHOFM

So you admit to having a learning problem?

I have several vintage road bikes and one vintage TT bike with down tube shifters. One is indexed the others just friction. Yes, they have
a learning curve. Short one. If you have a hearing problem maybe a bit longer. Both my vintage road bikes have newer aero brake levers
and in line brake levers. Makes a super clean look The TT bike has top tube shifters, it has no down tube.

livedarklions

Seriously, why do you even care about what people ride for "training, racing, or sport riding"? The spinners are maximizing their cardio workout. It's not what I do, but I can't fault them for valuing cardio over muscle strength.
You seem to have some need to believe these are somehow moral issues, and it's really quite silly. I ride in high gears because it plays to my natural strengths. I don't take kindly to spinners telling me I am doing it wrong, but I sure as heck don't feel a need to convert them or act like I am better or tougher than them.

LDBenjamin

My first adult bicycle had stem shifters. I can't count how many times I shifted from low to high gear when my right knee would hit the rear shifter, from standing to go up a hill. The stem has to be the worst possible place for shift levers, unless you never stand up. I suppose they would work well on a recumbent.

LessTruckMoBike

I always rode rim brakes on all my road bikes and didn't have an opinion on disc brakes. Then I moved to a very hilly place with a considerably long wet season, and quickly learned the value of disc brakes. The reliable stopping power of the discs, especially in the wet and on extended descents, far exceeds anything I've ever gotten from high quality rim brakes. And I no longer have to monitor my rim walls for scouring wear.