Radish_legs

avg speed 24.7mph, avg power 203w (low!), strava weighted power 253w, 3 min power of 354w during the race.

miyata man

Good job.

Dare I say if sprints are holding you back it would be a good idea to start making changes. Try something, if it fails so what. Personally I would start with getting your fit sorted out.

Radish_legs

Relative to the other C racers, I have more of a sprinting profile. As in I have more sprinting power than most of them. What I don't have is experience and the technical skills to maximize my power output. Also being a decent C level sprinter probably won't translate into being a B level sprinter. Being able to shift in drops out of saddle is something I can't do yet reliably.

Radish_legs

However I do take your point that I ought to try something "high-risk" just for the heck of it. That's what weeknight crits are for. If I'm always gambling on a bunch sprint I may not be learning (although I have plenty to learn about a bunch sprint).

Radish_legs

Race Report (5th C-race crit, 1st B-race crit).

Race #5 (C crit)

This was my 4th attempt at this C crit, which is a 1-mile non-technical oval. My prior results where 2, 9 (big breakaway that I couldn't hold, didn't really contest the pack sprint), and 2. All these finishes were sprint finishes, not breakaways.

The field is getting weaker as time passes. Once we get into the dog days of summer it's going to be even smaller. Fast guys are cat'ing up.

I had almost no warm-up. Knowing that I would be doing the B race right after, I felt it most prudent to try and save my energy. So eventually I got near the front, sheltered myself, and marked a few moves that tried to go. Usually waiting for the 2nd guy to chase, and me being the 3rd wheel, mostly out of the wind.

A guy attacked at the beginning of the last lap (maybe a little before then, I can't remember). I didn't think he was going to make it. I wanted someone else to chase him. So I was like 2nd wheel in the group and we hit the headwind and I was catching a lot of wind with about a half-lap to go. I had unfavorable cross-wind position on the front. My friend (not on my team) said "Let's get that guy." And he chased the solo breakaway who was really close by then. I didn't say anything out loud, but I was thinking "Thank you." I was really trying to get some lactic acid out of my legs and do as little work as possible. Knowing that I wasn't sheltered for most of this last lap. Came down to the sprint and the other guy jumped before me, I couldn't quite catch his wheel, and I got 2nd again. Last week that guy got 3rd. So yet again, I'm getting beat by guys I have previously beat in other sprints. They are leapfrogging me. A Cat 3 friend on another team told me later that I need to be the first to the 2nd to last turn and with my power profile just hit it there. That would be like a 40 second sprint. He thinks the C racers wouldn't be able to go around me.

12.6 miles, 243w strava weighted, 215w avg, avg speed 24.3mph
No power curve PRs, but came close with 406 watts for 2:16, and and 338w for 4:00.

Race #6 (B crit)

This race started just a few minutes after the C race. I was still winded. I started the race with the intent of just trying for a pack finish. This is my 6th race EVER. However over the past year, I've been doing a group ride with many of these Cat 3s and 4s that were in the race, so I had some idea of what this would be. One of my Cat 3 friends (the guy who won race #1 and race #2 said I probably wouldn't have a problem staying in the pack). So I just tried to race efficiently and stay in the pack. There were two large dominant teams in the group, and I was hoping they would get 2 guys in the breakaway and the race would slow down. But it took a long time for the breakaway to get established. There were several failed attempts which really drove up the speed. The successful breakaway even then never got a big lead. So I'm just sitting in, trying to be efficient.

I got called out by one racer in a turn, not sure what he was trying to say to me. I guess I looked super tense and sketchy. Which I was. Very windy day and we were taking those turns faster than I ever had before. And I realized after a while that I was unweighting my saddle in the turns which was causing my back wheel to move out. I asked for more feedback from the guy (whom I kinda know). He said I was doing fine.

I said hi to some of my other friends during the ride as I was next to them or went by them. They weren't chatty. I guess it was game-face time, not group ride socialization time. I didn't feel any pressure, I was just trying to soak up the experience.

So it was 5 laps left and I was still in the group, near the front of the pack. Laps kept going by, there were some surges, but I was right there. Right before the last lap, my friend (winner of the 2 C races) put in a dig to catch the guy off the front of the pack who was trying to bridge. I got on his wheel. So I was 3rd wheel in the pack at the bell, with about 6 riders ahead. We made the first turn and hit the big headwind, and there I was side by side with my friend on the front of the group, with a half-lap left, and I'm thinking "what the heck am I doing, this should not be happening." I turn to my friend and actually asked him why no one was going. It was like a meta-race, I was analyzing with my friend while it was going on. Having a little conversation. The breakaway was actually pretty close, and it was reasonable to think someone could bridge to them. But NO ONE made an effort against the headwind, and me and my friend actually turned off the juice. He had 2 teammates in the breakaway. So going into the final turns, I followed wheels, made my sprint. I think I finished 2nd in the group sprint (I finished 8th overall, and I think the breakaway was 6 guys). The guy who beat me in the C race today also beat me in the B race group sprint. I hit 38.1mph in the sprint which was a PR for me, and the 24th best time on strava for the sprint finish. I think a lot of the guys who could have sprinted didn't bother, so I think that probably figures into the sprint placing. Of course I don't know, I wasn't watching them. But I know some of the guys I place higher than are very strong.

I did a lot better than I expected. I would have been happy to just have a pack finish. But instead I think I showed that I have the power to hang with most of these guys, if I shelter and don't do work.

The B race was more technical, it was faster, the riders were in much closer proximity to each other. It felt more strategic (like real racing). It was a lot of fun. And it turned out that one of my friends (on another team) won the race, and it was fun to congratulate him. He is one of the guys who mentored me on the group ride and has given me a lot of pointers and encouragement.

16.9 miles, 25.1mph, 212w avg, 240w strava weighted, no power curve PRs
Friend's video of the B race -
I don't know that I really merit my "own" thread for my race results, maybe I should post them in the other race results group thread. But I'm thinking for someone that reads this thread in the future, might be interesting to see how the "reluctant" racer did.

globecanvas

This happens all the time. The guy who makes the last effort to bring back the break is the one guy that won't be able to follow the counter. You need a guy with a teammate in the pack and no teammates in the break to sacrifice himself. Otherwise whoever makes the last effort to get across is much better off attacking to and then through the break, but if they are further than a few seconds ahead, that's usually not realistic. But it's common for a break to be as good as dead and nobody drives the last nail into the coffin, and if the break keeps their heads, they can stay away.

Radish_legs

You know you don't have a Sprint. You know the winner of the group Sprint is seventh. Your placing won't matter. Why not animate the race? Why just sit up with half a lap left? I had my own goal of highest possible finish in my first B race. I had no teammates.

I have a teammate. Cat 3, only does breakaways. Doesn't race much. He says his only goal in races is to animate them. "And people hate me for it."

I have another teammate, almost 60 years old. Was working on the front to pull back the break. He has no teammates. Just him. Why? Because his team wasn't in the break and it was his responsibility he said. Animating the race.

Maybe guys are trying to avoid the danger of the final part of the race.

topflightpro

You complain a lot about what others won't do, but you don't seem to be jumping in there to chase things down.

PepeM

You tell us.

Radish_legs

It's not my job to animate the B race on my 5th day of racing ever. With no teammates in the field. And 31 racers in the field. That's what I was thinking. Plus I wanted to practice my sprint against the faster field. And that I did.

In my brief racing career it seems that there are so many moments where I am thinking "this is the chance for some of these guys, and they are just sitting in." I can't remember if I posted this before, but I talked to a 5 after a race, and he complained that he has no chance to win a sprint, but no one will go with him in a breakaway. "I can do 27 mph for 5 laps solo." Then do 5 laps solo. I have a bit of power at the end, so I'm okay with a bunch finish.

miyata man

Doge

I didn't see what prompted that, but what is your weight - and your bike weight and wheels?
And height.

Radish_legs

5'10", 178lb or so. I don't know how much bike or wheels weigh. I'm running a cannondale supersix (not a hi-mod, the cheap one) with 105. It's actually a pretty heavy bike IMO. I think my aluminum motobecane is lighter. However the weight of the bike in a flat crit is probably not an issue.

Doge

So you lost 12 lbs since the OP - good job! I'm kind of lost if there is a question here.
Is there?

Radish_legs

Doge, I'm a lot faster now than I was when I started this thread and asked this question. Some people were fairly critical of my approach. Not racing, focusing on training and getting fitter. I started doing faster group rides that were basically close to race simulation. I started doing structured workouts on the trainer, etc. I got fit and experienced first, then I started racing. This is one approach.

A guy recently talked to me about racing. He tried racing two years ago, thought he had some talent and fitness as a Cat 5 and got his doors blown off. It was a big disappointment to him and he quit racing and just logs miles on rides now. I said "People told me to race before I was really fit. I didn't listen to them. I think they were right. I suggest you jump right back in."

Not everyone reacts well to getting dropped in the first 2 laps of a C level crit. Most of the guys that were in the first C crit this season up where I live that got their doors blown off? They're not racing now. They quit. It's like Carpe said in one of his blog posts. If you aren't in the pack, you might as well stop and hook your bike up to a trainer and watch the rest of the crit.

PepeM

It is no one's job.

hack

To make this thread even useful ... given that you've now raced and that you have a sense of your fitness when this thread started vs a few weeks ago, were you physcially ready to attempt a cat 5 race when this thread started?

Radish_legs

This is an excellent question and I've been mulling it over. The most true answer is "I don't know." I know that sounds weird, given that I lived through the whole thing and now know racing somewhat, but it's still a hard question to answer.

Calculating backwards, my 20min power in August 2015 was 213w. Now my PR for 20min is 310w. That's a huge difference. That's like two different cycling lives. So that's the backdrop.

Here's my letter to young Radish Legs:

PepeM

:*)

superdex

did you ever get a powermeter? if not, then this is worthless.

himespau 

So maybe you would be further along with more real world experience and early failures would have motivated you to try harder. Falling off the back repeatedly may have frustrated you into giving up. No way to know. What you did seems to have worked for you (so far).

Radish_legs

Yessir. I bought my first PM in Fall 2014. All power numbers quoted by me in my thread pertaining to me come from powertap power meters (I have 2).

superdex

Da Reef

I need to come race your crits.

Radish_legs

LOL, please come. I've yet to set anything close to a power PR during a race. I've yet to have a weighted avg. power that is greater than my FTP in one of these races.