Slower on new carbon bike vs. aluminum?
08-14-14, 01:07 PM
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Slower on new carbon bike vs. aluminum?
Hi Guys,
I am confused as why I am slower on my new carbon bike vs. old aluminum? I tried many same segments on Strava during my commute and after 3 months still I could get second best or third best but simply it feels so hard to beat any records set when I started riding in April and now it is August so I should be faster with weekly average of 80 miles / week.
I had FELT Z85 with 105 components and it got stolen, recently I bought MASI PC1 with Carbon Frame and Sora components.
Weight was comparable between Masi and Felt about ~21 lbs. Wheels are comparable weight as well, as well but after few months I can not beet some of the records I have made with FELT.
I also upgraded wheels to lighter wheels (Reynolds Solitude), my diet didn't change, bike seems fit.
The only thing I could possibly imagine is stiffness as I am heaver rider (230lbs)
Could it be the stiffness of the frame ?
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
I am confused as why I am slower on my new carbon bike vs. old aluminum? I tried many same segments on Strava during my commute and after 3 months still I could get second best or third best but simply it feels so hard to beat any records set when I started riding in April and now it is August so I should be faster with weekly average of 80 miles / week.
I had FELT Z85 with 105 components and it got stolen, recently I bought MASI PC1 with Carbon Frame and Sora components.
Weight was comparable between Masi and Felt about ~21 lbs. Wheels are comparable weight as well, as well but after few months I can not beet some of the records I have made with FELT.
I also upgraded wheels to lighter wheels (Reynolds Solitude), my diet didn't change, bike seems fit.
The only thing I could possibly imagine is stiffness as I am heaver rider (230lbs)
Could it be the stiffness of the frame ?
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
08-14-14, 01:09 PM
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Felts are fast bikes..I put 39,000 miles on my Felt.
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Last edited by 10 Wheels; 08-14-14 at 01:12 PM.
08-14-14, 01:12 PM
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You'd expect the bikes weighing the same to be comparably fast, all else equal.
The Masi isn't magically faster because its CF
What probably isn't equal is your position. If your fitness is the same or better, the most likely explanation is that your position is a bit more upright, i.e. less aero, on the Masi
The Masi isn't magically faster because its CF
What probably isn't equal is your position. If your fitness is the same or better, the most likely explanation is that your position is a bit more upright, i.e. less aero, on the Masi
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08-14-14, 01:18 PM
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You'd expect the bikes weighing the same to be comparably fast, all else equal.
The Masi isn't magically faster because its CF
What probably isn't equal is your position. If your fitness is the same or better, the most likely explanation is that your position is a bit more upright, i.e. less aero, on the Masi
The Masi isn't magically faster because its CF
What probably isn't equal is your position. If your fitness is the same or better, the most likely explanation is that your position is a bit more upright, i.e. less aero, on the Masi
I didn't mention that the MASI is 56cm not 58 cm as my previous Felt, and also the components are Sora on Masi vs 105 on felt. Could components make a difference, like quality of hubs, bottom bracket etc ?
Also could it be that difference in frame dimensions affect power distribution ?
Last edited by MM80; 08-14-14 at 01:22 PM.
08-14-14, 01:29 PM
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And/or weather conditions, accuracy of measurement, and all the other variables related to human performance and the natural environment.
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08-14-14, 01:41 PM
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Not fit properly, different gearing, hotter weather, wind conditions, ....... The list goes on and on.
08-14-14, 01:43 PM
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How do you know it's the same effort? Are you using a power meter? If not, then hard to say two rides were the same effort. Also, same effort doesn't equal same results as wind alone could change results. Also, beating a PR isn't as easy as it seems. You make a PR when all the conditions are favorable (wind, hydration, fitness, energy level, etc.). To break that PR you need all these to be favorable again or you have to make marked improvements in fitness and still have everything else remain similar. Buying a new bike (unless you are going from mtb or hybrid to road bike) isn't enough by itself to suddenly make you better.
08-14-14, 01:56 PM
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Look, you went from 5700 105 to 3500 Sora. That 2200 difference has to come back and bite you somewhere. 
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08-14-14, 01:59 PM
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I've used a Kona Dew Drop for most of my commutes for 5 years and I started running Strava about 3 years ago. Last fall I picked up a Z85, it's about 6lbs lighter, better components, etc. Even after a year, my old Kona owns some of my PR for my commuting route. This is a little shocking, but with the number of rides the Kona has, it's understandable. Just the right wind conditions, just the right timing on lights, etc. The Felt is taking over most of my top three, but I still get a little giggle to see the old Kona in the top 3 on a segment.
IMO - if the new CF bike is about the same weight as the Z85, there will be a very small improvement in performance. CF by itself will not be fast.
The Kona Dew Drop:
IMO - if the new CF bike is about the same weight as the Z85, there will be a very small improvement in performance. CF by itself will not be fast.
The Kona Dew Drop:
08-14-14, 02:15 PM
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08-14-14, 02:16 PM
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How do you know it's the same effort? Are you using a power meter? If not, then hard to say two rides were the same effort. Also, same effort doesn't equal same results as wind alone could change results. Also, beating a PR isn't as easy as it seems. You make a PR when all the conditions are favorable (wind, hydration, fitness, energy level, etc.). To break that PR you need all these to be favorable again or you have to make marked improvements in fitness and still have everything else remain similar. Buying a new bike (unless you are going from mtb or hybrid to road bike) isn't enough by itself to suddenly make you better.
08-14-14, 02:17 PM
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I've used a Kona Dew Drop for most of my commutes for 5 years and I started running Strava about 3 years ago. Last fall I picked up a Z85, it's about 6lbs lighter, better components, etc. Even after a year, my old Kona owns some of my PR for my commuting route. This is a little shocking, but with the number of rides the Kona has, it's understandable. Just the right wind conditions, just the right timing on lights, etc. The Felt is taking over most of my top three, but I still get a little giggle to see the old Kona in the top 3 on a segment.
IMO - if the new CF bike is about the same weight as the Z85, there will be a very small improvement in performance. CF by itself will not be fast.
The Kona Dew Drop:
IMO - if the new CF bike is about the same weight as the Z85, there will be a very small improvement in performance. CF by itself will not be fast.
The Kona Dew Drop:
08-14-14, 02:26 PM
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Commute time is an awful indicator, at least for me. Traffic lights and amount of traffic have more bearing on my record attempts than gearing or frame material.
Also, without being on the same wheels and tires it is incredibly difficult to test the real effects of a frame change.
Also, without being on the same wheels and tires it is incredibly difficult to test the real effects of a frame change.
08-14-14, 02:27 PM
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08-14-14, 02:30 PM
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Commute time is an awful indicator, at least for me. Traffic lights and amount of traffic have more bearing on my record attempts than gearing or frame material.
Also, without being on the same wheels and tires it is incredibly difficult to test the real effects of a frame change.
Also, without being on the same wheels and tires it is incredibly difficult to test the real effects of a frame change.
08-14-14, 02:39 PM
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Any difference in the friction between the two component groups would be so small as to be noise in this computation.
Quality of the shifting might have a very small effect, to the extent better feeling and quicker shifting might encourage you to be in the most efficient gear more, and might give a positive sensation of quality that could encourage you to push harder.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
08-14-14, 02:42 PM
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Deminimis. Friction in all the various components is a very small part of the equation. Far and away the biggest force involved (on flat ground) is wind resistance, then rolling resistance of the tires on pavement. Mechanical friction in the bearings is a distant third.
Any difference in the friction between the two component groups would be so small as to be noise in this computation.
Quality of the shifting might have a very small effect, to the extent better feeling and quicker shifting might encourage you to be in the most efficient gear more, and might give a positive sensation of quality that could encourage you to push harder.
Any difference in the friction between the two component groups would be so small as to be noise in this computation.
Quality of the shifting might have a very small effect, to the extent better feeling and quicker shifting might encourage you to be in the most efficient gear more, and might give a positive sensation of quality that could encourage you to push harder.
How about frame stiffness ?
08-14-14, 03:08 PM
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