redfooj

my Garmin 520 ONCE failed to upload to strava automatically. i reset (like reset, not reboot) the whole thing, and outside of that episode for 2 years+ its been utterfly flawless.

the UI isnt the most intuitive thing in the world, but in terms of actual bugs or errors or failing to work like it should.... no, its delivered 99% of the time

pesty

@DrIsotope, so here's my retort to your comment about early adopters....
I was one of the 150 or so people that got the WatTeam PowerBeat before they realized they had a problem and stopped shipping. The difference between how WatTeam handled that situation and how HammerHead is handling their situation is why I'm still a supporter of WatTeam and why I'm ready to send back my Karoo.

When WatTeam realized there was a problem they got out in front of it, OWNED IT, and went with a policy of complete transparency with their customers and the general public. It is well documented on DC Rainmaker's site, and WatTeam personal were highly involved in conversations on that site. If someone made a comment or asked a question, they responded actively, trying their best to help in a courteous and polite way. The level of support and responsiveness I have received from them has been exemplary.

So far what we have seen from HH has been dismissive, accusatory, and sometimes downright rude. They have gone to the point of deleting posts and threatening to cancel peoples orders. They have responded to people asking about future feature requests for things that Garmin and Wahoo already have (IE: notifications) with what amounts to "not going to happen". Many requests, such as being able to see temperature, they have said "nobody asked for it". Well, that's something most people wouldn't have thought to ask for because it's so basic. They don't even have gradient and elevation, and from what it looks like, won't until the initial recipients are past their return period. For me, that's in about a month.

At this point, the product is nowhere near the product they advertised when I purchased it 9 months ago. I now have less than 30 days to decide if I'm going to return it for a refund, because it's nothing near what I paid for, or wait it out and risk having a $300 brick that is effectively redundant and unusable in it's current state.

..... Speaking of issues with the Karoo....
Did you know that you can't manage sensors, or pretty much anything after you start an activity? I had to factory reset my Karoo to get the last firmware update to load. I realized that I forgot to re-pair my sensors after I had already started my ride. Come to find out, the only way to get back to the settings menu is to end the activity, go to settings, and re-start a new activity. There is no way to manage ANT+ or BT devices on the fly that I could find. Wonderful device. Glad I still had my Garmin running.

Oh, and battery life... at medium brightness, I lost 19% battery on a 2h 5m ride. My Garmin 810, that I bought used 3 years ago, lost 11%. Take that for what it's worth.

Silvercivic27

Hmm...well, that seems like a pretty valid criticism from someone in the know!

pesty

Looks like I was wrong on being able to manage BT/ANT+. This morning I figured out that you can manage sensors on the fly if you swipe down from the top and go to the BT menu. It's not very intuitive, but it will get you there.

Interestingly, I turned off ANT+ completely and my power meter readings froze on the screen. I haven't uploaded or looked at the .fit files, but it was a odd little anomaly.

pesty

Finally got fed up.... sent my request for return/refund RMA on Sunday... Got an email back Tuesday (yesterday) that they were looking into my request. Hmmm....... I'd think it was pretty cut and dry. Not much there to look into.

I've got a bad feeling this is gonna go south.

Seattle Forrest

Thanks for all the testing you did, @pesty.

pesty

Not like there was much there to test. I didn't really get to test navigation, but that was because I wasn't going to drop $10-20/mo to AT&T for a SIM and I couldn't create routes without network (even with offline maps). I could have uploaded a route and navigated that, but where's the fun in that. I want something I can use to get me somewhere when I get lost.

Now the ultimate question... when... or IF I get my refund... do I go with an 820 or an Element (full size)?

Munk69

For what it is worth Pesty, I just got the 820 and I think it is awesome. Alot of the problems that were an issue when the 820 first came out have been fixed.

I am soo glad I cancelled my pre order for the Karoo. My main issue was when I pre-ordered it, they said they would be able to support varia integration and a patch would be issues in early 2018 for it.. From what I understand now, they cannot even do it.

pesty

May be a moot point... about 24 hours after sending my request they sent me a very generic "we're sorry your having issues, we're reviewing your email, please be patient". That was over 48 hours ago. Yes, it was a slightly wordy critique of the device and why I'm not satisfied, but it was only about 1/2 of my complaints.

Not like there's really a lot to review... customer isn't satisfied, wants a return RMA and a refund. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes to figure that one out.

It looks to me like they are stalling... and I can only assume it's because they can't afford to honor their return policy due to the number of cancelations and return requests. As they don't really communicate in any meaningful way with their customers other than "look at this cool stuff we did", it's really hard to say what's really going on.

As for their claim of Varia support being impossible... I'm not sure on that. They say that it's proprietary to Garmin, but I've seen a lot of people say "no it's not". Now, it wouldn't surprise me if there are parts of it that are proprietary, like maybe certain aspects of the radar functionality, but I'd be willing to throw down a small wager that basic light functionality would work. That being said, the Karoo doesn't support any ANT+ light functionality, which includes my Fly12 and Fly6 CE's which are supported by my Edge 810, so that's another nail in it's coffin in my book.

Munk69

Good luck man! I really hope they honor their policy! I suspect your right about them stalling.. Lots of people bought into their marketing hype and promises only to be disappointed by the wait and the lack of functionality.

ksryder

If you haven't already, maybe go start raising trouble on the DC Rainmaker comments. People from Hammerhead seem to still be engaged over there.

Personally I like my Wahoo Bolt A LOT - I have not had a single problem with it. But I can't compare it to a Garmin because I've never had a garmin.

pesty

I just tried to reply to their last email from 48+ hours ago and got a bounce notification. It appears that it was rejected by their spam filter.

Looking bad.

@ksryder Yea, I've put a post or two on that thread, but I've never seen anyone from Hammerhead post in there. At least nobody that publicly acknowledged that they were from HH. I also posted in one of the threads on the new forums they opened up. Someone asked if anyone has been able to get an RMA yet, so I told a snippet of my story.


[edit]
I've tried to reply to their "please stand by" email from three different email accounts. Every time I get this...



Looking really bad... anyone else tried to get an email through to support@hammerhead.io?

ksryder

That sucks bro. Admittedly I just rapidly skimmed the DCRainmaker comments so I probably missed something.

Are they US-based? I thought they were an Aussie company for some reason but I could be wrong. Legal options open up if they're in the states.

Also my credit card company has been pretty good at dealing with disputed charges over the years so that's an option. I also see that Hammerhead is a "Google certified" store, whatever that means. Could be worth raising hell with Google.

pesty

@ksryder they apparently have been running their operations out of New York. It was a paypal transaction, so I may have some recourse there as well, however, the actual transaction was over 9 months ago, so there may be an issue there. I don't want to jump to any conclusions just yet, as it could just be a technical issue, BUT, when you have people on their own support forums asking if anyone's been able to get an RMA, and then their support email account starts rejecting emails, it doesn't look good from a PR standpoint.

Seattle Forrest

Maybe the email said "I want to return my cyclocomputer so I can spend the money on penis pills and lend some of it to this Nigerian prince" and was legitimately flagged as spam.

If they have operations in NY, do they have a phone number?

Seattle Forrest

https://www.bikerumor.com/2015/12/11...radar-devices/

Garmin’s Varia Rearview Radar device is the first wireless alert system to detect vehicles coming up behind the cyclist, communicating with compatible Garmin head units to alert the rider. Thanks to a new ANT+ open standard for radars, perhaps it’ll start talking to other brands of cycling computers, too.

The Varia is the first unit to use the new standard, which will transmit real time speed and distance data of the vehicles behind the cyclist. It does not, however, capture positional data, so it won’t tell you if the driver is on a collision course.

The standardized protocol opens the door to other parties to incorporate the data into their displays and head units, and to sensor manufacturers to develop additional radar options.

Notice that's from December 2015.

pesty

@Seattle Forrest

I couldn't find a phone number on their site... but they are hiring a Social Media/Email Manager, so maybe that's part of the problem.

As for the radar... yea... that sounds familiar. HH has apparently been telling people that it's a proprietary protocol and they can't/won't support it.

Seattle Forrest

No phone number on their site. You've got to be ****ting me. It just gets better and better.
@pesty, I hope you get your money back. That should be easy and straightforward. Please keep us posted.

ksryder

I went into internet snooping mode. They're incorporated in New York as Hammerhead Navigation Inc.

I found an address and phone number that may or may not be useful:
Hammerhead Navigation Inc.
Company Information

262 W 38th St Rm 1003
New York, NY, 10018 United States
(929) 282-2513

ksryder

Oooh fun I found this from an FCC filing:

FRN
0024099830 Registration Date:11/19/2014 11:04:00 AM Last Updated:
Business Name:Hammerhead Navigation Business Typerivate Sector , Corporation Contact Organization:Hammerhead Navigation Inc. Contact Position:CTO - Hardware Contact Name:Mr Laurence J Wattrus Contact Address:262 W38th StRm. 1003New York, NY 10018United States Contact Email:laurence@hammerhead.io ContactPhone646) 926-7335

ksryder

And... from some business aggregator website:
Hammerhead Navigation Inc
3019 Prospect Ave
Santa Monica, CA 90405


Contact: Piet Morgan Title: Principal Phone: (203) 508-4261

Nubie

Go get 'em!!!

pesty

LOL @ksryder stalk people much?

So as the "contact us" link is just a mailto: hyperlink, I went to the "help" link on their website, which opens a Zendesk ticket. Attached the bounced and original emails and got a very quick reply from Franklin, whom I believe others have had good interactions with. Asked me for my serial number and said he'd get the return processed.... here's the problem...

When I replied to the email with the serial number it got bounced again!

So, I suppose it's back to the website to put in another Zendesk ticket.

ksryder

I may have had to do some light investigation in a previous career. Public business filings are your friend.

pesty

Update: I was finally able to get a return authorization number. We'll see where it goes from here.