$500 ‘Speeding Tickets’ for Riding BIKES Over 15 MPH
06-30-19, 08:53 AM
#51
Banned
Outside of the frequent MUP debate among the general cycling community, I'd never heard of any mention of such a thing before the proliferation of e-bikes.
Its this lumping of all cyclist into one pot regulation that's what I'm afraid of most. For generations cyclist of all types have been doing our thing with barely any mention of wrong of need for more law enforcement to get involved.
Now, within the last few years there's regular news stories of cycling mishaps, politicians getting involved, ticking with exorbitant fines, and suggestions of licensing cyclist. Doesn't law enforcement have enough real crime to deal with? We need to stop this insanity. If they wish to regular powered cycles fine. But leave traditions cyclist out of it.
In all my years of cycling I've never runover anyone despite having people walk right into my path. I've always been able to stop without accident or injury. We cyclist haven't done any more now than what's always been done.
We don't need any government intrusion or regulation beyond what already is in place. We are no more a threat to the community than runners/joggers or anyone else. And unlike skateboarders, I don't ride my bike on the sidewalk. LEAVE US ALONE.
Its this lumping of all cyclist into one pot regulation that's what I'm afraid of most. For generations cyclist of all types have been doing our thing with barely any mention of wrong of need for more law enforcement to get involved.
Now, within the last few years there's regular news stories of cycling mishaps, politicians getting involved, ticking with exorbitant fines, and suggestions of licensing cyclist. Doesn't law enforcement have enough real crime to deal with? We need to stop this insanity. If they wish to regular powered cycles fine. But leave traditions cyclist out of it.
In all my years of cycling I've never runover anyone despite having people walk right into my path. I've always been able to stop without accident or injury. We cyclist haven't done any more now than what's always been done.
We don't need any government intrusion or regulation beyond what already is in place. We are no more a threat to the community than runners/joggers or anyone else. And unlike skateboarders, I don't ride my bike on the sidewalk. LEAVE US ALONE.
06-30-19, 01:59 PM
#53
Senior Member
If the OP asks if 16mph is too fast, that would depend on where he's riding at 16mph.
It's not if he's trying to keep up with traffic with a speed limit of 30mph and the law needs to account for that.
If the law states a $500 fine for going over 15mph, and you feel that's not justified on bike trails, bike lanes or MUPs, then one has to be proactive towards repealing or modifying that law with respect to pedestrian safety.
My opinion is that 15mph (24km/hr) is pretty fast on a mup and bike lane. I'm usually 6mph (10 km/hr) on those.
It's not if he's trying to keep up with traffic with a speed limit of 30mph and the law needs to account for that.
If the law states a $500 fine for going over 15mph, and you feel that's not justified on bike trails, bike lanes or MUPs, then one has to be proactive towards repealing or modifying that law with respect to pedestrian safety.
My opinion is that 15mph (24km/hr) is pretty fast on a mup and bike lane. I'm usually 6mph (10 km/hr) on those.
Last edited by Daniel4; 06-30-19 at 02:20 PM.
06-30-19, 07:20 PM
#54
☢
Its not that simple, and you know it. But it is a start. On second thought, the start would be to notify your councilman of how you feel. He should know that one complaint equals 100.
Actually, it depends on the conditions: If its two miles of straight path and you're the only one on it then nobody cares how fast you're going.
If the OP asks if 16mph is too fast, that would depend on where he's riding at 16mph.
It's not if he's trying to keep up with traffic with a speed limit of 30mph and the law needs to account for that.
If the law states a $500 fine for going over 15mph, and you feel that's not justified on bike trails, bike lanes or MUPs, then one has to be proactive towards repealing or modifying that law with respect to pedestrian safety.
My opinion is that 15mph (24km/hr) is pretty fast on a mup and bike lane. I'm usually 6mph (10 km/hr) on those.
It's not if he's trying to keep up with traffic with a speed limit of 30mph and the law needs to account for that.
If the law states a $500 fine for going over 15mph, and you feel that's not justified on bike trails, bike lanes or MUPs, then one has to be proactive towards repealing or modifying that law with respect to pedestrian safety.
My opinion is that 15mph (24km/hr) is pretty fast on a mup and bike lane. I'm usually 6mph (10 km/hr) on those.
Actually, it depends on the conditions: If its two miles of straight path and you're the only one on it then nobody cares how fast you're going.
07-01-19, 11:39 AM
#56
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Apparently it worked! 
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07-01-19, 02:35 PM
#57
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Cop: I have you on radar going 19mph
Me: I'm sorry, officer. I can do better.
Cop: Thank you.
Me: Give me a minute to go back a few hundred feet and start over. I'm sure I can get up to 25 this time
Cop: No proble.....HEEEY!!!!! WAIT A MINUTE!!!!
Me: I'm sorry, officer. I can do better.
Cop: Thank you.
Me: Give me a minute to go back a few hundred feet and start over. I'm sure I can get up to 25 this time
Cop: No proble.....HEEEY!!!!! WAIT A MINUTE!!!!
07-01-19, 08:13 PM
#58
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There is a beach community near here with a 17 mph speed limit. On a couple of streets they have signs that flash your speed if you exceed that. So you really have to.
07-02-19, 06:16 AM
#59
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Why don't you ride to Denver and find out? After all, this alleged off-the-wall ticketing scheme doesn't have any impact within 1000+ miles of your current riding location. Maybe if you hurry you could be the first bicyclist-citizen to actually get a $500 ticket .
07-02-19, 07:43 AM
#60
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There is a MUP here where they split up walkers and cyclists. The walkers' path is a bit more scenic. The cyclists' path between the walkers' path and the busy roadway. Ocasionaly they merge.
That is a good scheme. Walkers and cyclists don't mix well, unless cyclists go slow or riding a beach cruiser. Walkers with baby strollers and small children complain about cyclists, but are ignored. Just a matter of time til something real bad happens.
With the emergence of e-bikes, dual MUP is the way to go. Walker on one path. Traditional cyclists and e-bikers on the other.
That is a good scheme. Walkers and cyclists don't mix well, unless cyclists go slow or riding a beach cruiser. Walkers with baby strollers and small children complain about cyclists, but are ignored. Just a matter of time til something real bad happens.
With the emergence of e-bikes, dual MUP is the way to go. Walker on one path. Traditional cyclists and e-bikers on the other.
The sidewalk portion to the right is a little narrower;
The bike portion to the left has a painted centerline:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bo...4d-105.2705456
07-02-19, 09:54 AM
#61
☢
In Boulder, portions of the MUP along Broadway are built like that.
The sidewalk portion to the right is a little narrower;
The bike portion to the left has a painted centerline:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bo...4d-105.2705456
The sidewalk portion to the right is a little narrower;
The bike portion to the left has a painted centerline:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bo...4d-105.2705456
07-02-19, 10:10 AM
#62
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I wish the county would start ticketing those deer that run out in front of my bike on purpose. They wait until the last minute then run out in front trying to wreck me. I know it is multi use road but those deer think they are above the law.
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07-02-19, 01:23 PM
#63
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We've got a section they did backwards: pedestrians got a sidewalk along the major road, cyclists got a pair of winding unidirectional paths through a garden.
07-02-19, 01:31 PM
#64
Senior Member
That said, we just lost a key section of riverfront greenway in NYC to years of complaints of people cycling too fast (both in inflated perception, and also in fact) through a busy and pedestrian-popular area. And yes, there have been incidents, if as often when pedestrians forgot that it was a shared area as when cyclists did.
Instead there's now a hilly, un-lighted, still pedestrian-popular 24/7/12 detour that's already starting to have its own recorded incidents.
Instead there's now a hilly, un-lighted, still pedestrian-popular 24/7/12 detour that's already starting to have its own recorded incidents.
07-02-19, 01:37 PM
#65
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79th street boat basin area of the Hudson River Greenway. Its now a dismount zone with an offered detour along a hilly, unlit, and still pedestrian-popular path. Worse, it has a very steep final crest (where many stall out) before arcing along the edge of an unnecessary traffic circle between that and a cafe concession. And whoever painted the directional arrows was not operating from the same plan as whoever put in the flexiposts, as those ended up right in the middle of the northbound arrows, making it decidedly unclear how even those of a mind to use it with strict legality are supposed to do so.
07-02-19, 01:40 PM
#66
Senior Member
79th street boat basin area of the Hudson River Greenway. Its now a dismount zone with an offered detour along a hilly, unlit, and still pedestrian-popular path. Worse, it has a very steep final crest (where many stall out) before arcing along the edge of an unnecessary traffic circle between that and a cafe concession. And whoever painted the directional arrows was not operating from the same plan as whoever put in the flexiposts, as those ended up right in the middle of the northbound arrows, making it decidedly unclear how even those of a mind to use it with strict legality are supposed to do so.
07-06-19, 10:26 AM
#68
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The imaginary 7 year old boy (and imaginary 7 year old Suzie too), who receives an imaginary $500 ticket will go to his imaginary grandfather,Daddy Warbucks and get him to pay the imaginary fine to the imaginary Big Bad B-crat; all good clean imaginary rhetorical bloviation.
07-06-19, 11:10 AM
#69
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...
The park is just plainly outside of the vehicle code. So charging bicyclists with a vehicle code violation is absurd.
On a related note: (and I don't mean to derail the thread this early on)
Here in Washington we had a case a few years back where a guy got a speeding ticket. Key to the case was the officer wrote in his statement that his patrol car was located in the median when he properly used used his properly calibrated radar gun to observe the infraction take place. The driver fought the ticket in court & won. The gist of the drivers defense was that to be issued a citation the officer must observe from the roadway. Under the law the median is defined as: "The area between roadways." Therefore the officer was not in a legally defined place for accurate observation.
One reason, (among many) is the speed indication of the RADAR gun is a function of a tangent of the line of travel & any indication other than head on is inaccurate by definition. Another is the officer wrote a specific speed, something like 89 in a 60. Given it's already established inaccuracy from vantage, the appropriate ticket that may have stuck would probably just be: "exceeding the limit" which is more subjective in nature. But it would still have only applied if the officer observed the alleged infraction from the legally defined roadway.
The park is just plainly outside of the vehicle code. So charging bicyclists with a vehicle code violation is absurd.
On a related note: (and I don't mean to derail the thread this early on)
Here in Washington we had a case a few years back where a guy got a speeding ticket. Key to the case was the officer wrote in his statement that his patrol car was located in the median when he properly used used his properly calibrated radar gun to observe the infraction take place. The driver fought the ticket in court & won. The gist of the drivers defense was that to be issued a citation the officer must observe from the roadway. Under the law the median is defined as: "The area between roadways." Therefore the officer was not in a legally defined place for accurate observation.
One reason, (among many) is the speed indication of the RADAR gun is a function of a tangent of the line of travel & any indication other than head on is inaccurate by definition. Another is the officer wrote a specific speed, something like 89 in a 60. Given it's already established inaccuracy from vantage, the appropriate ticket that may have stuck would probably just be: "exceeding the limit" which is more subjective in nature. But it would still have only applied if the officer observed the alleged infraction from the legally defined roadway.
07-09-19, 11:32 AM
#70
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Hmmmm but a lot of 7 year old boys can ride faster than 15 mph especially down hills.
And what if he doesnt have a well heeled daddy Warbucks. Will the greedy tax and spend B'crats throw him in jail**********
Oh and a lot of little Susies too!!!!!!!!!!
The bottom line remain a $500 fine is criminal abuse of power by the town B'crats.
And what if he doesnt have a well heeled daddy Warbucks. Will the greedy tax and spend B'crats throw him in jail**********
Oh and a lot of little Susies too!!!!!!!!!!
The bottom line remain a $500 fine is criminal abuse of power by the town B'crats.
07-09-19, 06:00 PM
#71
Portland Fred
Conditionally I may be supportive of the law. If someone is blasting down a crowded path within a few feet of pedestrians, I would support a ticket in that case. If the path is open and empty, I would not. If the enforcement officers will apply a little common sense, it can serve a greater good
In Portland, cyclist treatment of peds is abysmal. I see them blasting WAY too fast and close by peds and animals daily. The local bike "advocates" justify this ridiculous behavior -- the normal comeback being that people aren't getting killed so what's the big deal. Doesn't help with attitudes towards cyclists -- despite getting around almost exclusively by bike, I have more sympathy for drivers than cyclists in my town.
If you want to ride fast, ride roads.
07-10-19, 02:30 PM
#72
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Two things should be enforced:
-Reckless driving. Going to fast for conditions at time and place (even if this is less than PSL)
-Speed violations >10mph over PSL. Just as motorized vehicles are given a tolerance except in school zones. (speed cameras in AZ only trigger 11mph and over).
From City of Mesa LEO Q&A:
"Why are speeders [in AZ] allowed an 11 mph buffer?
The margin is intended to address language in the Arizona Revised Statutes related to speed offenses that defines, "...reasonable and prudent..." speed. It also provides a reasonable margin of error/grace for inaccurate vehicle speedometers and short-term lapses of attention by otherwise law-abiding and generally cautious drivers.
Our primary focus is on intentional, aggressive and negligent drivers. Statistics tell us that at 10 mph over the posted speed limit, the probability of being involved in a crash doubles. However, at 20 mph over, the probability increases to 11 times greater. We are trying to change the driving behavior of those persons who are most likely to cause crashes."
-Reckless driving. Going to fast for conditions at time and place (even if this is less than PSL)
-Speed violations >10mph over PSL. Just as motorized vehicles are given a tolerance except in school zones. (speed cameras in AZ only trigger 11mph and over).
From City of Mesa LEO Q&A:
"Why are speeders [in AZ] allowed an 11 mph buffer?
The margin is intended to address language in the Arizona Revised Statutes related to speed offenses that defines, "...reasonable and prudent..." speed. It also provides a reasonable margin of error/grace for inaccurate vehicle speedometers and short-term lapses of attention by otherwise law-abiding and generally cautious drivers.
Our primary focus is on intentional, aggressive and negligent drivers. Statistics tell us that at 10 mph over the posted speed limit, the probability of being involved in a crash doubles. However, at 20 mph over, the probability increases to 11 times greater. We are trying to change the driving behavior of those persons who are most likely to cause crashes."
07-10-19, 11:00 PM
#73
Banned
I'm sure that the speeding tickets SF cyclist are getting are greater than 5mph over, and again, good luck to the courts trying to make it stick at that difference range of 1 to 5 mph over. Even our local traffic enforcement won't touch that range difference.
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07-11-19, 01:59 AM
#74
☢
Some laws are clever like that when they know nobody is going to challenge a law that would cost them ten times the money and their personal time to hire a lawyer to challenge it.
These laws are typically designed to focus on those with limited means. Police are also know to be selective on who they choose to ticket.
07-11-19, 04:00 AM
#75
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Follow the law to the best of your ability but fight all tickets. Haven’t paid one in 20 years
