rseeker

So I have an aluminum 29er and I broke the frame. Buying a replacement frame isn't an option (the manf doesn't sell frames alone). I'm watching Craigslist for a replacement used of that bike, but as an alternative, maybe I want a different kind of bike altogether. That's what I'm asking about now.

I often see people recommend an 80s or 90s steel Trek (MultiTrack, 830, 850, something like that) but as far as I've seen those are all 26inch and maybe 27.5inch. I want to stay with 29er. What's the oldest steel 29er I can look for?

Or, asking another way, when did 29ers first show up, and were they steel or aluminum?

(I'm new to biking as of last year so I don't know much bike history.)

repechage

29er is a mtb term for 700c.
There are no vintage "29ers"
Especially if you want front suspension.
You could go with an old cyclocross or touring bike with cantilevers. Some touring bikes will have had "27" " wheels originally, getting 700c to work with a cantilever braked frame that had 27" is problematic or a no go.
If you wanted front suspension... A chore too as the majority of steel frames had 1" steerers.

Most guys bought a cyclocross bike 2cm smaller than their road mount, so top tubes will be longer with the smaller frames.

TenGrainBread 

The 29er mountain bike movement started really taking off around 2000. There were a few experiments by a couple small and large mfgrs in the 90s but commercially it didn't take off 'til the 2000s. The Wikipedia page for 29ers has a nice history of the format that is well-sourced.

So you won't find anything actually vintage. In terms of steel 29ers I would look at a Surly Krampus, which is a 29+ bike, meaning it has 3" tires, which is in between the traditional 2" width and the 4" you would see on a typical fatbike. The bike is rigid but you get a ton of float from the big tires, but they're not so big as to be slow like a fatbike. It's a very fast bike and rolls well over relatively technical terrain. They just updated the model this year and it is very nice, especially for the price. And you don't have to deal with the weight or maintenance of a suspension fork. Good option if you are not planning to do very technical/rocky trails.

Bicycle Addict

Performance MTB's of the early 90's were the first 29ers(although not called that until disc brakes here in NZ) the likes of a Trek Multitrack, Giant Innova, Schwinn Crosscut etc

coolkat

Salsa, Surly, On One, Soma, Ritchey, Raleigh, Jamis, and Chromag among others all have made or make cool steel 29ers

I'd also suggest checking out the new Marin Pine Mountain and Jamis Dragon series, they're both steel + bikes that are way more capable than most of the XC steel hardtails you'll run into

bwilli88 

Look for an old 700c hybrid.

corwin1968

If you can find a dark (camp stove) green, Surly Karate Monkey, that's about as vintage as it gets. I've read the KM was the first mass produced 29'er on the market. There were presumably custom 29'ers leading up to the KM but I doubt it was more than a handful of years.

Mine is a 2008 and is a 1st generation KM and looks completely modern. The KM is currently on it's 3rd generation and has substantial changes to the tubing and geometry. The first two generations had the same geometry with minor differences like top tube angle and 2nd gen KM's have a bracing tube between the seat tube and top tube.

tiredhands 

+1. A couple of companies made hybrids in the early 90s with quality steel and components. I have a pal who rides his Trek 750 on singletrack and loves it. Not a lot of room for rubber compared to modern frames, but you can probably put a 45c in the easy-to-find Trek 7** series, Specialized CrossRoads, Schwinn Crisscross, and Diamondback Overdrive. The caveat is that the lower end builds are cheap to find, but would require a significant amount of upgrading to be enjoyable. Others are harder to find, like the Bianchi Project 3/5/7, but would be easier to get on the singletrack right away.

rseeker

Thanks y'all, these are really useful ideas.


Could you tell me what specific numbers (like 750 or whatever they are) are in the 7** series, so I can try to match on those in a CL search?

tiredhands 

Pretty much just 750 and 790. Some years are better than others. If you're only looking for a frame, the 750/790 is going to be lighter than a 700/730. The earlier, the better, in my opinion, so anything with lugs gets my recommendation. Can't say much about the later frames. A late 80s-early 90s 520 will also have the same geometry with nicer steel, just FYI, but it'll probably command a higher price and will have touring-specific braze-ons which you probably aren't looking for.

SkyDog75

@tiredhands mentioned the early '90s Bianchi Project bikes above, which are the oldest 700c/29" mountain bikes I can think of. They're fully rigid, though, meaning they weren't designed for a suspension fork.

They were named with the word "Project" followed by a number (1/3/5/7). The number differentiated the bike by tubing type and component level. The higher the number, the higher-end the bike, so the "Project 7" was top of the line.

Doxeyweb

Search Amazon.com for:



CFG Cycle Force Cro-mo MTB 29 Frame

FBinNY 

Isn't "older 29r" an oxymoron?

Bad Lag

How do you pronounce 29er?


Is it two-nine-E-R or twenty niner or...?


What's old is new once again. 700c = 29er.




Mountain biking has brought many useful innovations to road biking. This is one we gave to them.

FBinNY 

Think

, and subtract 20.

Hardrock23

Trek MultiTrack is 700c. As are Schwinn Crosscut, Crisscross, & Crosspoint. Miyata Alumicross, Sportcross & Triplecross. Bianchi Volpe, Advantage, etc. to name a few. You could look for, if you wanted an older steel (or aluminum) bike, the very early hybrids, like above and that others have listed.
29er is just a fatter 700c, as I understand it - someone will correct me if I am wrong of course.

corwin1968

The mid-90's Multi-tracks max out just a bit over 40mm on the tires. Plus, they have really short top-tubes, compared to MTB's. My 53.5cm 730 has a 57cm effective top tube. Other than those two limitations (in my mind), those old Treks are great bikes.

My Karate Monkey has the same geometry as my 730, with the exception of the top-tube, which is 3cm longer on the KM. I love the ride of the KM, don't love the looks so much. My dream bike is my KM's geometry but with more traditional diamond frame looks. Rivendell's Hunqapillar and Appaloosa are close.

rseeker

That's my understanding too, that in general they both have a BSD of 622 , ETRTO xx-622. I measured my current 29er rims and that's what I have.

I'll tell ya, I picked up biking again last year after years away and it's really been a journey of learning as much as on the road. I study a little most days and I'm still learning.

repechage

and 27.5" = 650b The why's of that renaming are best left to the Marketing Minds.
Watch, there will be a revise with knobby tread of the 28 1/2"… that will really mess things up!

rseeker

That actually sounds pretty great. I do want braze-ons and eventually I'll have rear racks at least and also full fenders. Either way, the more capability the better and since the weight is negligibly low, I definitely want them.

Thanks for the pointer, it looks like a good price. The reviews for that brand of frames are kinda mixed.

What don't you like? Is it the way the seat tube conforms to the wheel?

I was in Target a couple weeks ago and checking out sporting goods. I saw they had bikes labeled both 29" and 28". These were Schwinns, flimsy-looking cheap rides but I wondered about the sizing, I didn't know if that was European 28" a.k.a. American 29", so I borrowed a tape measure from the home hardware section. The rim diameter was 24 1/2" and the wheel diameter was 28" something. Knobby. I just backed away.

Cute Boy Horse

Don't use tape measures on wheels. Read the tyre.

Doxeyweb

Yea I read the same reviews. I took a chance.
So far it's seems fine. Road about ten miles of gravel and trails yesterday. Stiff frame, climbs well.
Heavier than my aluminum, but I expected that. At least I can fix it unlike my cracked aluminum.

Tried to attach a picture but it's asking for a web location???

Geometry is a little different than my previous frame but the headtube angle is not 60.6. I thing it should be 68.6, mine measures close to 69*. Rear triangle is longer than most. Long chainstays. But climbed well, cornered fine.
*note I'm running a rigid fork and I have it setup as a single speed. Not sure if this fork is adjusted for a shock. That may be where the confusion comes in.

If I find another one in my size. I'm buying it for a spare.

FargoRider

I just finished restoring this 700cm '92 Bianchi Project-3 early last month. I actually love the fit and how it rides. It's not my everyday commuter, but it's great for walking my dog, and cruising around when the weather is crappy. It does great on gravel tool. I really think these old steel framed bikes have a great feel to them.

corwin1968

I prefer a traditional diamond frame with a level or just slightly sloped top tube. The KM has a very steeply sloped top tube.