80's Italian Bike but want to upgrade to Campy Index Shifting
#76
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Ochsner 63.5 classic rebuild
Cant show pix until 10x Frame + Fork: Ochsner 63.5 cm NEW/NOS
Headset: Shimano 105 NEW/NOS
Handlesbar: ITM Super Racing PRO 260 46; double groove
Stem: ITM "Ochsner" 100 NEW/NOS
Seatpost: ITM 27.2; fluted
Saddle: Selle San Marco Squadra "Ochsner" Titanium rails NEW/NOS
Pedale: Look PP247
Bartape: BBB NEW
Rims: SunRims ME14A 32 hole NEW
Spokes: Sapim race, butted 2.0/1.8/2.0 NEW
Nipples: DT Swiss Brass NEW
Hubs: Shimano Ultegra 600; 8-speed 32 hole
Skewers: Shimano Ultegra 600
Tires: Vittoria Corsa Graphene 28 mm NEW
Tubes: NEW
Brake Lever: Shimano Ultegra 600 STI
Shifter Shimano Ultegra 600 STI
Cable stops: Shimano
Brakes: Shimano Ultegra 600 6403
Front Derailleur: Shimano Ultegra 600 6401; braze-on
Rear Derailleur: Shimano Ultegra 600 6403; 8-speed
Crankset: Shimano Ultegra 600 175; 53/39
Bottom Bracket Shimano HG71 113; ITA
Cassette: Shimano HG72 12-25; 8-speed
Chain: Shimano HG91 8-speed NEW/NOS
Cables + Housing: Jagwire NEW
Bottle Cage: Elite Ciussi Inox NEW
Headset: Shimano 105 NEW/NOS
Handlesbar: ITM Super Racing PRO 260 46; double groove
Stem: ITM "Ochsner" 100 NEW/NOS
Seatpost: ITM 27.2; fluted
Saddle: Selle San Marco Squadra "Ochsner" Titanium rails NEW/NOS
Pedale: Look PP247
Bartape: BBB NEW
Rims: SunRims ME14A 32 hole NEW
Spokes: Sapim race, butted 2.0/1.8/2.0 NEW
Nipples: DT Swiss Brass NEW
Hubs: Shimano Ultegra 600; 8-speed 32 hole
Skewers: Shimano Ultegra 600
Tires: Vittoria Corsa Graphene 28 mm NEW
Tubes: NEW
Brake Lever: Shimano Ultegra 600 STI
Shifter Shimano Ultegra 600 STI
Cable stops: Shimano
Brakes: Shimano Ultegra 600 6403
Front Derailleur: Shimano Ultegra 600 6401; braze-on
Rear Derailleur: Shimano Ultegra 600 6403; 8-speed
Crankset: Shimano Ultegra 600 175; 53/39
Bottom Bracket Shimano HG71 113; ITA
Cassette: Shimano HG72 12-25; 8-speed
Chain: Shimano HG91 8-speed NEW/NOS
Cables + Housing: Jagwire NEW
Bottle Cage: Elite Ciussi Inox NEW
#77
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Nice pics from everyone above!
My project is nearing the final stages. I just bought the last major item, a left Ergo lever yesterday, and now the only things I need are a threadless stem adapter and some minor things like the Campagnolo Low Friction Bottom Bracket Cable Guide, part number FS9301 (sic) and probably a couple other things that I'm forgetting right now.
But today I received my new handlebars, ITM The Bar. They have some scratching but I like the basic color scheme of them along with the Ergo cable recesses and the anatomic shape. The drop is super shallow but I'm getting old and drops are a young man's game! I mainly bought these for the price and weight: about $12 total shipped price and 190grams.
So here are the pics, first of my old ITM Stem and bars along with the Athena brake levers and hoods which I will miss.
Do you guys like my high tech amazon cycling computer?
And the pretty Campy white hoods, original and 25 years old now! Ignore the cork tape...
ITM Mondial bars
190-200 gram bars, yay!
Scratched slightly....But my high tech amazon cycling computer will distract everyone's eyes from the bars!
And one Ergo lever mounted and ready while we wait for the second to arrive....
Another week and hopefully I'll have the index system up and purring (what can go wrong?) just in time for the full return of crazy LA traffic. Ok, maybe not full return but getting worse every day.
Oh, so I am far from being a true cyclist at this point. I do like to ride fast though and am trying to get to where I can cruise at around 20mph. I find I can almost keep up when a "true" cyclist passes me, or at least keep up until I die. No one else passes me except those with jerseys. I tend to ride at a brisk pace until I die. Then I either stop and rest or back off for a bit. My route is fairly flat, or at least no major hills. I tend to feel much better riding now than when I was half my age and riding. Oh, I'm 53, lazy but naturally thin and a type 1 diabetic so that always complicates things but so far I've kept an eye on glucose and no bad lows despite the huge increase in my activity. I've almost never exercised a day in my life so I figured the ole ticker ain't getting any healthier and it's time to find some type of activity I can tolerate. The aspect of speed and racing in cycling really appeals to me, coming from a background of extreme love of sports cars and auto racing. (See my other thread about cycling sports car freaks that no one has replied to yet...)
Anyway, just wondering the pace you guys ride at, how long it takes to get to a comfortable aerobic level and any other cycling/training/health info you can share.
Thanks and more to come....
My project is nearing the final stages. I just bought the last major item, a left Ergo lever yesterday, and now the only things I need are a threadless stem adapter and some minor things like the Campagnolo Low Friction Bottom Bracket Cable Guide, part number FS9301 (sic) and probably a couple other things that I'm forgetting right now.
But today I received my new handlebars, ITM The Bar. They have some scratching but I like the basic color scheme of them along with the Ergo cable recesses and the anatomic shape. The drop is super shallow but I'm getting old and drops are a young man's game! I mainly bought these for the price and weight: about $12 total shipped price and 190grams.
So here are the pics, first of my old ITM Stem and bars along with the Athena brake levers and hoods which I will miss.
Do you guys like my high tech amazon cycling computer?
And the pretty Campy white hoods, original and 25 years old now! Ignore the cork tape...
ITM Mondial bars
190-200 gram bars, yay!
Scratched slightly....But my high tech amazon cycling computer will distract everyone's eyes from the bars!
And one Ergo lever mounted and ready while we wait for the second to arrive....
Another week and hopefully I'll have the index system up and purring (what can go wrong?) just in time for the full return of crazy LA traffic. Ok, maybe not full return but getting worse every day.
Oh, so I am far from being a true cyclist at this point. I do like to ride fast though and am trying to get to where I can cruise at around 20mph. I find I can almost keep up when a "true" cyclist passes me, or at least keep up until I die. No one else passes me except those with jerseys. I tend to ride at a brisk pace until I die. Then I either stop and rest or back off for a bit. My route is fairly flat, or at least no major hills. I tend to feel much better riding now than when I was half my age and riding. Oh, I'm 53, lazy but naturally thin and a type 1 diabetic so that always complicates things but so far I've kept an eye on glucose and no bad lows despite the huge increase in my activity. I've almost never exercised a day in my life so I figured the ole ticker ain't getting any healthier and it's time to find some type of activity I can tolerate. The aspect of speed and racing in cycling really appeals to me, coming from a background of extreme love of sports cars and auto racing. (See my other thread about cycling sports car freaks that no one has replied to yet...)
Anyway, just wondering the pace you guys ride at, how long it takes to get to a comfortable aerobic level and any other cycling/training/health info you can share.
Thanks and more to come....
#78
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So you had the raised section of the washer facing outwards when you had problems?
I’m amazed how finicky they are. There’s a paper thin washer inside that, if removed, disengages the ratchet mechanism and effectively reverts them to friction shifters. Not great, but if you were 50 miles from home...
On the FD shifter, the diagram shows two domed washers opposing each other. When I installed mine like that the outer plate stuck out a few millimetres. So I left one of the washers out and presto! Perfect shifting, never had to tighten it.
Your De Rosa looks awesome.
(Minor corrections: the brifters aren’t C-Record, as there is no such thing as C-Rec brifters, but I don’t know what model they are with the hole in the return lever. Your downtube shifters technically aren’t Syncro, but we know what you mean.)
I’m amazed how finicky they are. There’s a paper thin washer inside that, if removed, disengages the ratchet mechanism and effectively reverts them to friction shifters. Not great, but if you were 50 miles from home...
On the FD shifter, the diagram shows two domed washers opposing each other. When I installed mine like that the outer plate stuck out a few millimetres. So I left one of the washers out and presto! Perfect shifting, never had to tighten it.
Your De Rosa looks awesome.
(Minor corrections: the brifters aren’t C-Record, as there is no such thing as C-Rec brifters, but I don’t know what model they are with the hole in the return lever. Your downtube shifters technically aren’t Syncro, but we know what you mean.)
Last edited by P!N20; 06-12-20 at 08:05 PM.
#79
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Not sure if anyone is still following this thread but I finally got the last of the ergo parts and have been installing them for the past 2-3 days! Geez, I didn't think it would take so long to install and get them working but it did. So the right lever went on no problem and worked from the start. But the left wouldn't shift. Then I figured it was the limit stops were way out which is weird as it was set fine with the other levers and that adjustment shouldn't change very much if at all. So I get that sorted and take a lap around the block. Yay! And then literally half a block later, the right ergo jams with lever 2 (the one directly behind the brake lever) not clicking. It will only shift one or two gears, up and down and then lever 2 stops clicking and does nothing. So I head home. Then it starts working again. So another lap and then it jams again. At this point I'm just annoyed and swearing in Italian at the Campagnolo Ergo gods.
So any hints as to what the problem could be? I bought these used but the right was working with no problems until this.
Oh, just went over and clicked the right lever and it magically works again. But I'm sure that's only temporary. Does it signal a need for a rebuild? G springs or broken spring carrier? Something else? Any help would be appreciated as the bike is useless without the right lever.
And also my RD cable is a bit crooked. Not sure if it's too long or if it needs a stepped end piece. But Campy uses a special ferrel here with a plastic pigtail to keep dirt out. What is the solution here? I'm sure anyone with an older bike has this problem. Or is it not an issue? I don't think it's part of my problem but I suspect that it will wear quickly here and then the cable will grind against the braze on loop.
So any hints as to what the problem could be? I bought these used but the right was working with no problems until this.
Oh, just went over and clicked the right lever and it magically works again. But I'm sure that's only temporary. Does it signal a need for a rebuild? G springs or broken spring carrier? Something else? Any help would be appreciated as the bike is useless without the right lever.
And also my RD cable is a bit crooked. Not sure if it's too long or if it needs a stepped end piece. But Campy uses a special ferrel here with a plastic pigtail to keep dirt out. What is the solution here? I'm sure anyone with an older bike has this problem. Or is it not an issue? I don't think it's part of my problem but I suspect that it will wear quickly here and then the cable will grind against the braze on loop.
#80
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Easy one first, you need a step ferrule that fits inside that diver’s helmet cable guide:
Best bet is to take your bike in to your LBS to get one that fits. Helps if said LBS has been in operation since the mid 20th century.
This probably won’t fix your shifter issue, but it’s not gonna hurt.
Best bet is to take your bike in to your LBS to get one that fits. Helps if said LBS has been in operation since the mid 20th century.
This probably won’t fix your shifter issue, but it’s not gonna hurt.
Last edited by P!N20; 06-19-20 at 10:37 PM.
#81
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Can you explain the jamming a bit more? When it jams does it stop going up and down gears or just down? (Up = smaller sprockets, down = larger sprockets.)
Is there a gear it typically happens in? Can you replicate the jam in the workstand? When it jams is the cable tight or loose?
So when it un-jams you haven’t actually done anything, it just starts working?
#82
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Easy one first, you need a step ferrule that fits inside that diver’s helmet cable guide:
Best bet is to take your bike in to your LBS to get one that fits. Helps if said LBS has been in operation since the mid 20th century.
This probably won’t fix your shifter issue, but it’s not gonna hurt.
Best bet is to take your bike in to your LBS to get one that fits. Helps if said LBS has been in operation since the mid 20th century.
This probably won’t fix your shifter issue, but it’s not gonna hurt.
Last edited by tNuvolari; 06-20-20 at 12:24 AM.
#83
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Could be any number of things. I suspect that if it works then jams, it’s capable of working.
Can you explain the jamming a bit more? When it jams does it stop going up and down gears or just down? (Up = smaller sprockets, down = larger sprockets.)
Is there a gear it typically happens in? Can you replicate the jam in the workstand? When it jams is the cable tight or loose?
So when it un-jams you haven’t actually done anything, it just starts working?
Can you explain the jamming a bit more? When it jams does it stop going up and down gears or just down? (Up = smaller sprockets, down = larger sprockets.)
Is there a gear it typically happens in? Can you replicate the jam in the workstand? When it jams is the cable tight or loose?
So when it un-jams you haven’t actually done anything, it just starts working?
When it starts working again, I've really done nothing other than continually shift between the two gears available and then stopping. Not sure if the stopping is the cure or the shifting is.
Not sure about the cable tightness. I don't have a bike stand so replicating even basic ergo shifting without riding is difficult.
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Not even Campagnolo uses it:
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...0-de-rosa.html
Likes For P!N20:
#85
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Your shifter issue really has me perplexed. When you installed the cable housings did you open up the ends after they were cut?
Have you done the bar tape? Are all the cables inserted fully into the shifters? Do you have ferrules on all the housing ends?
When you attached the cable to the rear derailleur, was the shifter in the highest gear?
Have you done the bar tape? Are all the cables inserted fully into the shifters? Do you have ferrules on all the housing ends?
When you attached the cable to the rear derailleur, was the shifter in the highest gear?
#86
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Have you done the bar tape? Are all the cables inserted fully into the shifters? Do you have ferrules on all the housing ends?
When you attached the cable to the rear derailleur, was the shifter in the highest gear?
So this doesn't point to internal lever issues such as springs or carrier?
#87
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...if you really have to have indexed shifting (that works well) on an 80's Italian bike, the indexing stuff that worked in the 80's was Shimano. I think this has already been hinted at, but permit me to say it plainly. Campagnolo took a while to produce a solid indexed shifting system. A while meaning in this context many years. I second the above idea to just get yourself some really nice smooth friction DT shifters as the most rational upgrade.
...if you really have to have indexed shifting (that works well) on an 80's Italian bike, the indexing stuff that worked in the 80's was Shimano. I think this has already been hinted at, but permit me to say it plainly. Campagnolo took a while to produce a solid indexed shifting system. A while meaning in this context many years. I second the above idea to just get yourself some really nice smooth friction DT shifters as the most rational upgrade.
Some Shimano systems will only work within level. Not an expert on this, but reading in BF and other forums, it seems that users have had trouble with Dura Ace not fully working with say, Ultegra. In contrast, I know that Campagnolo 10-speed parts will work with all levels of Campagnolo 10-speed. If an Athena 10-speed rear-derailleur breaks, you can buy a more $$ Record for your bike or a cheaper Mirage and it should work well. For these higher gear counts, you also need a chain that is for 9 or 10. Older chains (Regina Oro era) had less lateral flexibility than modern chains. You need that flexibility and narrowness.
I still have a few friction systems that work extremely well, mainly because I have made replacements to use indexing components with DT friction levers, or cherry-picked the best of the friction world. My Masi has its original Campy/Regina system (works ok) and my Campagnolo 2x10 and 3x10 systems work far better than it does. If you just want to get a taste, find a Sachs ARIS 6-speed freewheel for your Italian bike, though Shimano made some fantastic freewheels as well. The rear shifting will be quicker and more positive, needing less overshifting/dithering back to get a clean cage position than with a Campagnolo NR/SR system. The ARIS tooth (and the Shimano and modern Campagnolo tooth designs) are much better at grabbing and lifting the chain off the tooth than those of Regina, Cyclo, Everest, Atom, and Maillard. The Sachs steel is also very durable, and the bearings are really good. In SunTour I've had some great ones and some poor ones, so I don't want to say too much.
Long cage Campagnolo rear derailleurs are also available, which let the cassette sprocket range under Campagnolo control be as wide as 13-29 (Campy's widest "vintage" range) or may be a tiny bit wider. For me as I get older this is a big motivator. OTOH, I have a friction shifted 13-34 in the rear and 46/30 in the front that work extremely well. Gear range is from 30/34 (24" with a 27" wheel) to 46/13 (96") - I don't need lower and I don't need higher and it shifts very smoothly with a SRAM PC951 chain. Here both derailleurs are Huret DuoPar with Shimano DT levers. I think any DT lever that has compatible cable pull can work well.
Last edited by Road Fan; 06-20-20 at 07:27 AM.
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After seeing the pictures in one of the other threads I realized the Campy ferrule with the plastic pigtail actually goes into the adjustable cable screw and the bellows goes on the other side of the screw. The purpose of using the parts at the lower part of the RD is to prevent dirt from getting into where the cable slides in and out of the cable housing in the RD. I just finished re-installing my RD cable on my De Rosa the proper way.
I'm not familiar with the Campy Ergo levers but there are quite a few Youtube videos for rebuilding the levers so it possible there may be something amiss in the internals of your lever. My De Rosa came with the 8 speed Ergo levers but I've never used them because I wanted the Syncro downtube shifters for a more vintage look.
I originally installed the bellows on the right of the braze on cable guide and the Campy ferrule with the plastic pigtail to the left of the cable guide.
I believe the proper location to to put the ferrule with the pigtail where the cable enters the RD. Notice I installed a step ferrule where the cable housing will connect to the braze on cable guide.
Now the portion of the cable that slides in and out of the cable housing is protected from dirt.
I'm not familiar with the Campy Ergo levers but there are quite a few Youtube videos for rebuilding the levers so it possible there may be something amiss in the internals of your lever. My De Rosa came with the 8 speed Ergo levers but I've never used them because I wanted the Syncro downtube shifters for a more vintage look.
I originally installed the bellows on the right of the braze on cable guide and the Campy ferrule with the plastic pigtail to the left of the cable guide.
I believe the proper location to to put the ferrule with the pigtail where the cable enters the RD. Notice I installed a step ferrule where the cable housing will connect to the braze on cable guide.
Now the portion of the cable that slides in and out of the cable housing is protected from dirt.
#89
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Sorry, no Shimano speak allowed in here....ha ha.
So I redid the cable hook up and actually shortened the casing at the RD. It seems to fit better now. Then I ziptied the cable so it is straighter; I like the pigtail and bellows thingie! I did find a step down ferrule on Ebay that is the absolute perfect size so that the Campy pigtail ferrule will completely fit in the big side. That way, no extra length is needed and then the step down part fits in the braze on. Not sure how the measurements are spot on for this strange fitment but they are. Only problem is that it comes from France so a bit of a wait.
Also, I think the zip tie might actually cause problems as the cable seems to fight it when shifting. Not sure how finicky that RD casing/cable segment is to proper shifting but I can see some strain.
So went for a ride and it seems to be working with no seizing or jamming. However, the RD will fail to shift every once in awhile at the small end of the cassette. The lever will click but no shift. Then with another click, it will shift. Strange thing is that it will always continue to shift to the largest cog as if there is an extra index click. (I thought there were only 10 clicks and if it missed one, you would then not be able to shift through all the gears?)
Also, the clicking is not very loud. When I watched the Campy videos, every shift has a very loud snap sound. I have earlier 10 speed shifters though; are mine less pronounced or is something wrong inside?
For now it works well enough but I want perfection, Campy! Probably should have just rebuilt them first. The left lever is now working great though. I got it for super cheap as the seller stated that it wouldn't hold the big chainring sometimes but I have seen none of that, knock on wood!
So I redid the cable hook up and actually shortened the casing at the RD. It seems to fit better now. Then I ziptied the cable so it is straighter; I like the pigtail and bellows thingie! I did find a step down ferrule on Ebay that is the absolute perfect size so that the Campy pigtail ferrule will completely fit in the big side. That way, no extra length is needed and then the step down part fits in the braze on. Not sure how the measurements are spot on for this strange fitment but they are. Only problem is that it comes from France so a bit of a wait.
Also, I think the zip tie might actually cause problems as the cable seems to fight it when shifting. Not sure how finicky that RD casing/cable segment is to proper shifting but I can see some strain.
So went for a ride and it seems to be working with no seizing or jamming. However, the RD will fail to shift every once in awhile at the small end of the cassette. The lever will click but no shift. Then with another click, it will shift. Strange thing is that it will always continue to shift to the largest cog as if there is an extra index click. (I thought there were only 10 clicks and if it missed one, you would then not be able to shift through all the gears?)
Also, the clicking is not very loud. When I watched the Campy videos, every shift has a very loud snap sound. I have earlier 10 speed shifters though; are mine less pronounced or is something wrong inside?
For now it works well enough but I want perfection, Campy! Probably should have just rebuilt them first. The left lever is now working great though. I got it for super cheap as the seller stated that it wouldn't hold the big chainring sometimes but I have seen none of that, knock on wood!
#90
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After seeing the pictures in one of the other threads I realized the Campy ferrule with the plastic pigtail actually goes into the adjustable cable screw and the bellows goes on the other side of the screw. The purpose of using the parts at the lower part of the RD is to prevent dirt from getting into where the cable slides in and out of the cable housing in the RD. I just finished re-installing my RD cable on my De Rosa the proper way.
I'm not familiar with the Campy Ergo levers but there are quite a few Youtube videos for rebuilding the levers so it possible there may be something amiss in the internals of your lever. My De Rosa came with the 8 speed Ergo levers but I've never used them because I wanted the Syncro downtube shifters for a more vintage look.
I originally installed the bellows on the right of the braze on cable guide and the Campy ferrule with the plastic pigtail to the left of the cable guide.
I believe the proper location to to put the ferrule with the pigtail where the cable enters the RD. Notice I installed a step ferrule where the cable housing will connect to the braze on cable guide.
Now the portion of the cable that slides in and out of the cable housing is protected from dirt.
I'm not familiar with the Campy Ergo levers but there are quite a few Youtube videos for rebuilding the levers so it possible there may be something amiss in the internals of your lever. My De Rosa came with the 8 speed Ergo levers but I've never used them because I wanted the Syncro downtube shifters for a more vintage look.
I originally installed the bellows on the right of the braze on cable guide and the Campy ferrule with the plastic pigtail to the left of the cable guide.
I believe the proper location to to put the ferrule with the pigtail where the cable enters the RD. Notice I installed a step ferrule where the cable housing will connect to the braze on cable guide.
Now the portion of the cable that slides in and out of the cable housing is protected from dirt.
I guess ultimately it doesn't really matter that much as long as it works. Your final solution does look the best though and the dimensions of all the parts looks correct.
Campy instructions say it goes here but I admit that seems wrong
Shortened RD casing and zip tied in place
The sloppy bars and cables-Ready to add the tape!
Cables-Are they too long or is that how everyone's look?
My left lever-The Good One (for now...)
My righty - The Problem Child
Much better curve now and better shifting but not saying it's related....
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Good to hear your shifting is working. If it fails to jump up or down a cog, it just sounds like an adjustment needs to be made to the cable tension.
Once you get the step ferrule you can do away with that strange ferrule with boot. Seriously, these things were not made with vintage bikes in mind.
I'd avoid the cable tie, if you must have it make sure it's loose. Every time you change gears the cable housing flexes - if it's secured tight you are restricting movement. It will also rub the paint off over time.
Your cabling looks OK. Maybe the front brake is a touch too long, but that's being pedantic. A nice way to do brifters on vintage frames is to route the right lever over to the left downtube boss, and vise versa, then cross the cables under the downtube. That way the cable housings won't rub through the paint on your head tube.
Once you get the step ferrule you can do away with that strange ferrule with boot. Seriously, these things were not made with vintage bikes in mind.
I'd avoid the cable tie, if you must have it make sure it's loose. Every time you change gears the cable housing flexes - if it's secured tight you are restricting movement. It will also rub the paint off over time.
Your cabling looks OK. Maybe the front brake is a touch too long, but that's being pedantic. A nice way to do brifters on vintage frames is to route the right lever over to the left downtube boss, and vise versa, then cross the cables under the downtube. That way the cable housings won't rub through the paint on your head tube.
#92
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Good to hear your shifting is working. If it fails to jump up or down a cog, it just sounds like an adjustment needs to be made to the cable tension.
Once you get the step ferrule you can do away with that strange ferrule with boot. Seriously, these things were not made with vintage bikes in mind.
I'd avoid the cable tie, if you must have it make sure it's loose. Every time you change gears the cable housing flexes - if it's secured tight you are restricting movement. It will also rub the paint off over time.
Your cabling looks OK. Maybe the front brake is a touch too long, but that's being pedantic. A nice way to do brifters on vintage frames is to route the right lever over to the left downtube boss, and vise versa, then cross the cables under the downtube. That way the cable housings won't rub through the paint on your head tube.
Once you get the step ferrule you can do away with that strange ferrule with boot. Seriously, these things were not made with vintage bikes in mind.
I'd avoid the cable tie, if you must have it make sure it's loose. Every time you change gears the cable housing flexes - if it's secured tight you are restricting movement. It will also rub the paint off over time.
Your cabling looks OK. Maybe the front brake is a touch too long, but that's being pedantic. A nice way to do brifters on vintage frames is to route the right lever over to the left downtube boss, and vise versa, then cross the cables under the downtube. That way the cable housings won't rub through the paint on your head tube.
Regarding the cables, is it too late to cross the shifter cables like you suggested? I would think they would need longer length but maybe it's not that much and would still work.
Also, on the brifters where the shifter cables go into the brifter, there is a sharp angle or bend down where the cables turn from vertical to horizontal to follow the handlebar grooves. Does this angle cause problems? Should the casing follow the groove completely or is it better to let it follow a straighter line? I guess a pic will show it easier. Oh, by the way, rode today without any bar tape and no right hood and I didn't miss either. I had gloves on so I'm sure that saved me but I didn't even notice that the bars were bare. Of course, it doesn't look pretty but it does save some weight....
Now the pic:
And I am to get rid of the zip tie as I suspect it is causing slight issues by restricting movement when shifting. I don't think it takes a lot to to alter the cable tension which is important enough that Campy put tensioners on the cables. So, no more zip ties. I'll see if I notice a difference on the next ride.
Last edited by tNuvolari; 06-24-20 at 12:46 AM.
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Also, on the brifters where the shifter cables go into the brifter, there is a sharp angle or bend down where the cables turn from vertical to horizontal to follow the handlebar grooves. Does this angle cause problems? Should the casing follow the groove completely or is it better to let it follow a straighter line?
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As for still ending up in the largest cog after 9 clicks, you will probably have jumped two gears with a subsequent click after having missed one.
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Looks like I'm not the only one:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stepped-...-/233059171180
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#96
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Ah ok, apparently the zip tie was a problem as I removed it and redid the cables and now the shifting is great. I think I could still try some tension adjusting but it was good enough that I just wanted to ride and not mess with it. It's very nice having the shifters always at your fingertips and even though my ride is fairly flat, I can definitely save energy and make better time by shifting more often than before. I think this brifter idea just might catch on!
So I finally put the cork tape on and that makes for a more presentable bike.
But now what? Time to start looking for an old beater Pinarello, De Rosa, or Masi for a city bike....
But enjoy the pics. I wasn't sure about the tan tape and white stem but I'm happy with it now after a few hours and a fast ride. I'm getting better and faster, averaging around 15mph on my last ride. I can ride with traffic and pass busses so that's always fun!
Thanks for all the help.
Tan and red are good but the white is a bit loud.
Finished drive side
Love the tan Cinelli cork. They do have a tan leather wrap also but it ain't cheap and not sure how sweat + leather would work out.
Finished left side.
Carbon Record brifters + black hoods + Cinelli tan cork + glowing eye stem. I was thinking grey Hudz but now I like the black Campy.
So I finally put the cork tape on and that makes for a more presentable bike.
But now what? Time to start looking for an old beater Pinarello, De Rosa, or Masi for a city bike....
But enjoy the pics. I wasn't sure about the tan tape and white stem but I'm happy with it now after a few hours and a fast ride. I'm getting better and faster, averaging around 15mph on my last ride. I can ride with traffic and pass busses so that's always fun!
Thanks for all the help.
Tan and red are good but the white is a bit loud.
Finished drive side
Love the tan Cinelli cork. They do have a tan leather wrap also but it ain't cheap and not sure how sweat + leather would work out.
Finished left side.
Carbon Record brifters + black hoods + Cinelli tan cork + glowing eye stem. I was thinking grey Hudz but now I like the black Campy.
#97
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Wow, loving the brifters and 10 speed cassette! I love the 1 tooth difference in cogs which I thought might just be overkill but it's so nice to click up a cog when I hit a slight hill and the leg effort changes just enough to ease the legs but not so much as to feel like my legs are spinning and I'm not moving. Also, the immediacy of the shifting is impressive, especially when shifting to a larger rear cog simply because that is when you're usually straining and in the past, it was an overshift and then trimming required at the worst possible time as it's usually when the road starts to go uphill and the legs are burning and all you want is to find a comfortable gear.
Still a couple of issues though:
1) when shifting down from the big chainring, the chain gets between the two rings and just spins. It doesn't get stuck or wedged but simply spins outside of the teeth. Sometimes it catches and rights itself and sometimes I have to shift back up to the big ring and down again. I might see if I can adjust the FD to allow a little more inside travel and then be able to trim the chain onto the small ring when needed. But if that doesn't work, I guess I'll need a 10 speed big ring. Or maybe a new 10 speed Record Carbon crankset!
2) I bought the Chorus RD without pulleys and when I got new pulleys and tried mounting it all up, I found the inner cage rubbed and didn't fit. And after comparing my inner cage with other Chorus RD cages, I found the cage I have is incorrect for this derailleur. I did manage to grind my cage down to allow it to fit and figure this would end my problems for now but now I've found that the chain comes off the upper pulley wheel and makes a slight noise while riding. It doesn't seem to affect the shifting though and had it not been for the noise, I would not have noticed. So now I need to find an inner cage appropriate for this RD; if anyone has a Record/Chorus 10 speed RD inner cage lying around, I'd love to buy it. My other thought is a carbon inner cage from China on Ebay but there doesn't seem to be much to it and I'm not sure if this also allow the chain to fall off the upper pulley. It also might be from the adjustment screw which sets the clearance of the upper pulley wheel to the cassette so I might try and change that and see what happens.
Tough to see but this is how my chain is riding
Chain is off the upper pulley due to wrong inner cage
Still a couple of issues though:
1) when shifting down from the big chainring, the chain gets between the two rings and just spins. It doesn't get stuck or wedged but simply spins outside of the teeth. Sometimes it catches and rights itself and sometimes I have to shift back up to the big ring and down again. I might see if I can adjust the FD to allow a little more inside travel and then be able to trim the chain onto the small ring when needed. But if that doesn't work, I guess I'll need a 10 speed big ring. Or maybe a new 10 speed Record Carbon crankset!
2) I bought the Chorus RD without pulleys and when I got new pulleys and tried mounting it all up, I found the inner cage rubbed and didn't fit. And after comparing my inner cage with other Chorus RD cages, I found the cage I have is incorrect for this derailleur. I did manage to grind my cage down to allow it to fit and figure this would end my problems for now but now I've found that the chain comes off the upper pulley wheel and makes a slight noise while riding. It doesn't seem to affect the shifting though and had it not been for the noise, I would not have noticed. So now I need to find an inner cage appropriate for this RD; if anyone has a Record/Chorus 10 speed RD inner cage lying around, I'd love to buy it. My other thought is a carbon inner cage from China on Ebay but there doesn't seem to be much to it and I'm not sure if this also allow the chain to fall off the upper pulley. It also might be from the adjustment screw which sets the clearance of the upper pulley wheel to the cassette so I might try and change that and see what happens.
Tough to see but this is how my chain is riding
Chain is off the upper pulley due to wrong inner cage
#98
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Ah, I adjusted the cage clearance as discussed above and that made all the difference. Now the chain stays on the pulleys and the bike shifts better. Plus, it's silent as can be. I will look for the proper inner cage just so I don't have anymore problems but for now, it's stable and good.
I also adjusted the FD and now it seems to have more range to put the chain where it needs to go and also be able to trim things when the chain rubs on opposite cogs/chainrings. Haven't ridden it yet with this but seems to be better than before so looks like it should work as it's supposed to.
Very happy with this bike but addicted to Ebay shopping and deals! Now I want to build another bike, starting with a beat up Pinarello or De Rosa SL frame. Or maybe Pina/DeRosa aluminum and/or carbon as those can be found fairly cheaply on Ebay. Is buying a used carbon frame a bad idea? I also saw the coolest bike back in the 90's at Bike Nashbar in Columbus where I was going to school. It was a red Basso carbon frame that had aero shaping and oversize tubing. It was the very early days of carbon so it was too expensive for me but I still remember how beautiful it is 30 years later. I think it was actually made by an American company to Basso's specs but I can't remember the name of the company. Anyone know this bike? I haven't been able to find one on Ebay or online so either they were very rare or they cracked very easily. Or both.
I also adjusted the FD and now it seems to have more range to put the chain where it needs to go and also be able to trim things when the chain rubs on opposite cogs/chainrings. Haven't ridden it yet with this but seems to be better than before so looks like it should work as it's supposed to.
Very happy with this bike but addicted to Ebay shopping and deals! Now I want to build another bike, starting with a beat up Pinarello or De Rosa SL frame. Or maybe Pina/DeRosa aluminum and/or carbon as those can be found fairly cheaply on Ebay. Is buying a used carbon frame a bad idea? I also saw the coolest bike back in the 90's at Bike Nashbar in Columbus where I was going to school. It was a red Basso carbon frame that had aero shaping and oversize tubing. It was the very early days of carbon so it was too expensive for me but I still remember how beautiful it is 30 years later. I think it was actually made by an American company to Basso's specs but I can't remember the name of the company. Anyone know this bike? I haven't been able to find one on Ebay or online so either they were very rare or they cracked very easily. Or both.
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Doh, I screwed up! Not sure anyone is reading this anymore but apparently I made my chain too short despite following both calculations based on sprockets and also following measurements. But after looking at my RD and chain in extreme cog/chainring settings, here is what I have found:
small cog + small chainring
small cog + small chainring where this measurement should be 10-15mm and NEVER over 22mm. Mine is 50mm!
big cog + small chainring (close-up)
big cog + small chainring
big cog + big chainring (close-up)
big cog + big chainring
It seems to be working fine as it is but obviously it's not right. I'm just surprised it's this far out as I did measure and calculate when cutting the chain. And it's a Campy 10 speed chain so adding extra links is not as easy as it should be.
So, do I leave it or will this cause damage and excess wear?
small cog + small chainring
small cog + small chainring where this measurement should be 10-15mm and NEVER over 22mm. Mine is 50mm!
big cog + small chainring (close-up)
big cog + small chainring
big cog + big chainring (close-up)
big cog + big chainring
It seems to be working fine as it is but obviously it's not right. I'm just surprised it's this far out as I did measure and calculate when cutting the chain. And it's a Campy 10 speed chain so adding extra links is not as easy as it should be.
So, do I leave it or will this cause damage and excess wear?
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My method on setting the chain length is to wrap it around the small ring and the small cog and make sure that it isn't hitting itself, in other words the rear derailleur is pulled forward just a tiny bit. Then, whatever you get for big ring and big cog is what you get. There's really no reason you would ever run that anyway
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