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Give Strava a break

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Give Strava a break

Old 07-02-20, 08:26 PM
  #26  
Grouperdawg
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Oooooh - your Garmin isn't including zeros, is it?
No clue
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Old 07-02-20, 08:32 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Grouperdawg View Post
No clue
Get one.
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Old 07-03-20, 02:10 AM
  #28  
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I currently use Wahoo Fitness on my Android phone, the power data between that and what Strava displays after I upload are minimal, maybe 2-3W. I think that is acceptable. 40W sounds like a lot, though.

On the thread, if you think 6/month is too much, great, but stop whining like a little *****. Also, makes you (general you) sound hypocritical, if you really don't care for the product, why so upset?
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Old 07-03-20, 03:48 AM
  #29  
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I wrote a really witty retort but then I realised you guys aren't paying me for my posts. Too bad for you.
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Old 07-03-20, 05:48 AM
  #30  
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Well I've used Strava the last 4 years or so and recently signed up for the 2 month free trial as a Subscriber. Whether I'll continue to pay for it is another thing but fun to attack starred segments etc for a while.
However, if Strava should fold and cease to be, it wouldn't bother me at all. I'll still ride, log my rides with RWGPS and in fact I'd probably give a wry smile at the thought of all the KOM chasers no longer having a reason to live. There's a couple around here who do 3 mile "rides" just to get a KOM.
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Old 07-03-20, 06:14 AM
  #31  
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I've been a paid user of Strava for the last few years. The $60 annual cost isn't significant enough to make me reconsider paying for their services. I think if they raise their annual fee I would certainly look for alternatives. I like the social aspect, and the leader boards are nice to gauge your own fitness levels but beyond that it is just boring analytics that you can get elsewhere for less.

Quite honestly I feel that most tech companies like this are looking to get bought out by a larger company. Get a large user base and enough revenue to make the company attractive enough to sell at a premium price. Simple business model really.
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Old 07-03-20, 07:59 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Grouperdawg View Post
No clue
Most likely your data is including zeroes.

I have less than 10 posts so I can't post the link from the Strava support forum but Strava manipulating bike computer data is a known phenomenon dating back to 2016 (and the thread continues to the present).

Here's an excerpt from the Strava forum:

Weighted Average Power is similar to - but NOT the same as - Garmin's Normalized Power.Both numbers attempt to capture the average effort of a workout by taking into account lactate accumulation and other types of fatigue. Strava uses an algorithm very similar to xPower for computing Weighted Average Power.

There will be differences between the Weighted Average Power and Normalize Power. How much and which direction will depend on the ride. Typically, for shorter rides, Weighted Average Power will be lower than Normalized Power. This is a result of the different types of smoothing used by the algorithms. Both numbers have been used successfully by professional coaches.

As to the question of why Strava can't simply copy values exactly from the Garmin file in regard to average power and normalized power: Well, our engineers have worked hard to process the raw data in the file, clean it up, and use algorithms that are standard across any file created by any compatible Strava device. It's just the way we have always approached activity data. We don't have plans to change or disable these core functions and algorithms in our data processing.

Last edited by g321; 07-03-20 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 07-03-20, 02:59 PM
  #33  
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I was about to delete strava at the end of the Muro di Sormano last year
reinstalled it just to have an odometer
really happy with the odometer function

Last edited by dr_max; 07-03-20 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 07-03-20, 08:20 PM
  #34  
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I've always left zeros. Your power data isn't complete without them. I was able to sprint from the light because I had to stop for it, and caught my breath waiting for it to turn green. The numbers would be too high without those zeros.
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Old 07-03-20, 08:49 PM
  #35  
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Even ignoring the pricing issue, Strava on Android became utterly unusable a month ago. Reviews are full of people experiencing the same issue of huge random diversions leading to 40 or 50% inflated mileage but no fix, not even an admission that there's an issue.

Other apps continue to track just fine on the same phone, so it's definitely an app bug introduced in recent updates coincident with the change in pricing.

One star... the, er, middle one, like they've given their long term customers.
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Old 07-04-20, 05:16 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
Ah, finally a fresh take on a fresh topic.
Ah, finally a useful comment from a useful person.
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Old 07-04-20, 06:03 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by dr_max View Post
https://strava.app.link/vzFD9AOMN7

so much anger against strava for charging $5 monthly.


why people these days think they should not have to pay for other peopleís work but if they donít pay and have their data used scream scandal?

would people have preferred a British Analytica scandal like Facebook did with private users data?
I agree.
If you like the app, pay up.
If you donít like the app, donít pay.
Itís pretty damn simple and it doesnít make a difference when, how, and why they charge a fee.
Of course people can instead act all incredulous and hurt like they were personally slighted and wonder why a company would want to continue to turn as big a profit as possible instead of trying to cater to their personal whims
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Old 07-04-20, 06:32 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
I agree.
If you like the app, pay up.
If you donít like the app, donít pay.
Itís pretty damn simple and it doesnít make a difference when, how, and why they charge a fee.
Of course people can instead act all incredulous and hurt like they were personally slighted and wonder why a company would want to continue to turn as big a profit as possible instead of trying to cater to their personal whims
It was expected with the growing user base, growing hosting data fees and software development fees that it would come at a cost. Pay per use, advertising or data monetization were the 3 options.
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Old 07-04-20, 09:33 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by dr_max View Post
It was expected with the growing user base, growing hosting data fees and software development fees that it would come at a cost. Pay per use, advertising or data monetization were the 3 options.
They couldn't make money with a smaller user base. They have little enough prospect of making money with this larger, more expensive user base that their VC sugar daddies (who know much more about their state than you or I) told them to shape up or ship out. They spent a large chunk of money trying to be a social media company, they spent a large chunk of money trying to attract yogis and dog-walkers, and in the end it seems their plans just won't actually make money.

I'll check back in August to see if you've had any further thoughts.
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Old 07-04-20, 07:35 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
They couldn't make money with a smaller user base. They have little enough prospect of making money with this larger, more expensive user base that their VC sugar daddies (who know much more about their state than you or I) told them to shape up or ship out. They spent a large chunk of money trying to be a social media company, they spent a large chunk of money trying to attract yogis and dog-walkers, and in the end it seems their plans just won't actually make money.

I'll check back in August to see if you've had any further thoughts.
Of course come back in August to share your immense knowledge
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Old 07-04-20, 07:45 PM
  #41  
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I'd pay money to have the ability to hide my friends indoor pretend rides. Who want to see those in their feed?
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Old 07-05-20, 08:11 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by znomit View Post
I'd pay money to have the ability to hide my friends indoor pretend rides. Who want to see those in their feed?
Same people that like watching the virtual Tour de France going on now.
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Old 07-05-20, 12:04 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Same people that like watching the virtual Tour de France going on now.
YEAH!!!! Both of them!
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Old 07-06-20, 09:18 AM
  #44  
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I've been using the free version of strava to track all my rides for the last 5 years. I didn't have a need for any of the features that came with the paid subscription.
But then last month they made route creation pay-only. I use the route tool all the time to plan new rides for myself and group rides. So, now they forced me to pay for the service. The upside is I also now have access to global heatmaps.

It's a toss up.

I think most people are just tired of getting nickel and dimed for literally everything in life.
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Old 07-06-20, 11:51 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by surak View Post
It wasn't just to make it better, it was deliberately to get more users. Classic Internet startup business plan: Step 1) burn a lot of cash by giving something away for free to get lots of users, Step 2) ???, Step 3) Profit!

It's incredible that people defend Strava. The platform has value, but it's not like Strava started with the intention of being run as a charity. They were always trying to figure out how to convert their captive audience into cash. Do you go around shaming Uber users for not paying the full cost of their rides, which Uber's VC money subsidizes to the tune of losing billions every year? Or people who buy Black Friday doorbusters that are cheaper than what it cost stores to stock them?
UBER isnít innovative. Strava is. UBER wonít survive in its current form. The experience has gone downhill for the past three years.

The Strava experience is very good, and not expensive.
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Old 07-06-20, 12:06 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by g321 View Post
Most likely your data is including zeroes.

I have less than 10 posts so I can't post the link from the Strava support forum but Strava manipulating bike computer data is a known phenomenon dating back to 2016 (and the thread continues to the present).

Here's an excerpt from the Strava forum:

Weighted Average Power is similar to - but NOT the same as - Garmin's Normalized Power.Both numbers attempt to capture the average effort of a workout by taking into account lactate accumulation and other types of fatigue. Strava uses an algorithm very similar to xPower for computing Weighted Average Power.

There will be differences between the Weighted Average Power and Normalize Power. How much and which direction will depend on the ride. Typically, for shorter rides, Weighted Average Power will be lower than Normalized Power. This is a result of the different types of smoothing used by the algorithms. Both numbers have been used successfully by professional coaches.

As to the question of why Strava can't simply copy values exactly from the Garmin file in regard to average power and normalized power: Well, our engineers have worked hard to process the raw data in the file, clean it up, and use algorithms that are standard across any file created by any compatible Strava device. It's just the way we have always approached activity data. We don't have plans to change or disable these core functions and algorithms in our data processing.
I hit my limit on posts, thx for the info
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Old 07-06-20, 03:14 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by ridinginjeans View Post
UBER isnít innovative. Strava is. UBER wonít survive in its current form. The experience has gone downhill for the past three years.

The Strava experience is very good, and not expensive.
Meh, it doesn't matter how "innovative" you think they are if their business model can't stand on its own, instead falling back on guilting people to use it.

What the Strava defense force doesn't want to admit is that a lot of the value in Strava diminishes as people leave the platform. Heat-maps? Segment leaderboards? Social network for athletes? All dependent on lots of usage and lots of their users data, which Strava has never paid anyone while turning around and attempting to monetize for years. ​So who should be paying whom?

​Again, they purposely made it easy to get data into their system because that's the foundation upon which any possible business model they've yet to successfully land relies.
​​​​
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Old 07-06-20, 03:29 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by surak View Post
Meh, it doesn't matter how "innovative" you think they are if their business model can't stand on its own, instead falling back on guilting people to use it.

What the Strava defense force doesn't want to admit is that a lot of the value in Strava diminishes as people leave the platform. Heat-maps? Segment leaderboards? Social network for athletes? All dependent on lots of usage and lots of their users data, which Strava has never paid anyone while turning around and attempting to monetize for years. ​So who should be paying whom?

​Again, they purposely made it easy to get data into their system because that's the foundation upon which any possible business model they've yet to successfully land relies.
​​​​
Lots of weird insinuations going on here, but not much is salient.

Sure, more users makes their data more robust - are you insinuating that people are leaving in droves and it's endangering that robustness? I haven't seen it in my feed; I know of two people that have left the platform - one specifically because of the recent changes. I'm not sure of the motivations of the other, but he only uploaded rides sporadically, anyway.

And are you actually arguing that Strava should be paying users that upload rides? Lol.
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Old 07-06-20, 03:37 PM
  #49  
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Fundamentally, the only thing that matters is if people will pay enough (combined) to let Strava turn a profit. They've tried a number of approaches and have yet to achieve that. Maybe this latest one will, but if not, that's likely the end. Maybe the concept is an unprofitable one; maybe they're just bad at their jobs.
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Old 07-06-20, 03:42 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Lots of weird insinuations going on here, but not much is salient.

Sure, more users makes their data more robust - are you insinuating that people are leaving in droves and it's endangering that robustness? I haven't seen it in my feed; I know of two people that have left the platform - one specifically because of the recent changes. I'm not sure of the motivations of the other, but he only uploaded rides sporadically, anyway.

And are you actually arguing that Strava should be paying users that upload rides? Lol.
I suggest you actually read this thread before you post and prove that you don't understand the context by somehow missing the salience of my post. You can start with the first post and the article linked.

I stated facts as to why Strava doesn't deserve a "break" when their analogues get none. The defenders continue to use emotion-based arguments that Strava is "good" and anyone who doesn't pay is freeloading. Except it's more likely that if Strava ever turns a profit, it'll be off the back of those same non-paying users. Or maybe they will have invented how to make money out of thin air.
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