Should I remove fixed cup?
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Spellscape: lots of advice on how to do it correctly but in your situation (which I have been in several times) I would
leave the fixed cup alone and just grease it up well -easy to do and will last possibly forever but at least until you have a better reason to remove it.
leave the fixed cup alone and just grease it up well -easy to do and will last possibly forever but at least until you have a better reason to remove it.
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I agree. Photos show things looking pretty good and I would just thoroughly clean and repack with grease.
This discussion reminds me how much I have enjoyed the newer sealed bearing units, etc. What a pleasure not having to get a fixed cup tool on those narrow wrench flats! And I have to say, as much as I prefer Campagnolo, those Shimano Hollowtech BBs are the easiest I have ever worked on.
This discussion reminds me how much I have enjoyed the newer sealed bearing units, etc. What a pleasure not having to get a fixed cup tool on those narrow wrench flats! And I have to say, as much as I prefer Campagnolo, those Shimano Hollowtech BBs are the easiest I have ever worked on.
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Down the rabbit hole
I'm impressed that folks can tell that the bearing race of a fixed cup isn't damaged/worn out from looking from the drive side into the BB abyss. Putting new ball-bearing in a worn out race will not improve anything.
The advice to do the fixed first is very sound. The rigid spindle acts as a fulcrum as your tool bares down on the shoulder of the raised portion of the bearing face. This way all the force is contained within the BB shell which is very tough - unlike a frame's seatpost, crossbar etc secured in a vice.
The use of a Jimmy bar is likely to damage the frame so I would avoid it.
Hoping lubricant will creep into a 40mm thread that has been stuck solid for 10,20,...50 years is delusional.
Heat works but only if your tooling up can apply maximum mechanical force and the paint work is of no concern.
The tightening bolt approach just slips uselessly in my experience, as well as crushing the race.
The moral of the tale - lube everything once a year and these components will turn out with little effort and in doing so, they'll outlive you.
The advice to do the fixed first is very sound. The rigid spindle acts as a fulcrum as your tool bares down on the shoulder of the raised portion of the bearing face. This way all the force is contained within the BB shell which is very tough - unlike a frame's seatpost, crossbar etc secured in a vice.
The use of a Jimmy bar is likely to damage the frame so I would avoid it.
Hoping lubricant will creep into a 40mm thread that has been stuck solid for 10,20,...50 years is delusional.
Heat works but only if your tooling up can apply maximum mechanical force and the paint work is of no concern.
The tightening bolt approach just slips uselessly in my experience, as well as crushing the race.
The moral of the tale - lube everything once a year and these components will turn out with little effort and in doing so, they'll outlive you.
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#29
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Problem with this is that I will and already maintain bikes twice year but this one in my possession only 1 month.
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I'm impressed that folks can tell that the bearing race of a fixed cup isn't damaged/worn out from looking from the drive side into the BB abyss. Putting new ball-bearing in a worn out race will not improve anything.
The advice to do the fixed first is very sound. The rigid spindle acts as a fulcrum as your tool bares down on the shoulder of the raised portion of the bearing face. This way all the force is contained within the BB shell which is very tough - unlike a frame's seatpost, crossbar etc secured in a vice.
The use of a Jimmy bar is likely to damage the frame so I would avoid it.
Hoping lubricant will creep into a 40mm thread that has been stuck solid for 10,20,...50 years is delusional.
Heat works but only if your tooling up can apply maximum mechanical force and the paint work is of no concern.
The tightening bolt approach just slips uselessly in my experience, as well as crushing the race.
The moral of the tale - lube everything once a year and these components will turn out with little effort and in doing so, they'll outlive you.
The advice to do the fixed first is very sound. The rigid spindle acts as a fulcrum as your tool bares down on the shoulder of the raised portion of the bearing face. This way all the force is contained within the BB shell which is very tough - unlike a frame's seatpost, crossbar etc secured in a vice.
The use of a Jimmy bar is likely to damage the frame so I would avoid it.
Hoping lubricant will creep into a 40mm thread that has been stuck solid for 10,20,...50 years is delusional.
Heat works but only if your tooling up can apply maximum mechanical force and the paint work is of no concern.
The tightening bolt approach just slips uselessly in my experience, as well as crushing the race.
The moral of the tale - lube everything once a year and these components will turn out with little effort and in doing so, they'll outlive you.
As I stated above and many times, this method has never failed or hurt any tools, parts, frames or flesh.
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I have a VAR 30 handle (male side) in the shop I've had for years, but never managed to find the other end. Not sure if the jaws for the modern version of the VAR tool are compatible with the old unit - they still make it today under a much longer number, BP-03000 @ https://www.vartools.com/en/bottom-b...er-var-p11.php
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No, but spindles almost always wear faster than cups. And the condition of the fixed cup can be assessed without removing it by removing the adjustable cup and spindle. You only need to pull the fixed cup if you're replacing the whole bottom bracket.
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Wayne Bingham at Velo-Classique is a VAR importer and may have what you need.
Still - I may break down and reach out. With the Hozan tool going to $90 online (sometimes I see deals) and Ice Toolz and others going $75+ depending on which you look at, I don't know if it makes sense to buy new VAR. I can't imagine a new one with all three jaws will be less than $150.
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#34
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Still - I may break down and reach out. With the Hozan tool going to $90 online (sometimes I see deals) and Ice Toolz and others going $75+ depending on which you look at, I don't know if it makes sense to buy new VAR. I can't imagine a new one with all three jaws will be less than $150.
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What might seem obvious to some, is less obvious to others, I guess. But I don't want to come off as judgmental...there's already too much of that in the mechanics forum as it is.
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Fixed Cup old school. I'm assuming when we talk about fixed cup we mean this type - with 5/8 " raised shoulder across the spindle hole.
The tool on the left will set you back a good $50!
Last edited by Johno59; 03-11-21 at 08:34 AM.
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"go loose individual ball bearings, add one per side."
Good advice - one less thing to rust/break up.
Good advice - one less thing to rust/break up.
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One other pet peeve: If you are going to post a tool and say “it will set you back about $50”, how about sharing a link or at least giving a manufacturers name? Save the rest of us some Googling.
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and
https://www.bikesmithdesign.com/BBTool/
which page happily claims $25 plus $9 shipping in USofA.
Last edited by oneclick; 03-11-21 at 10:17 AM.
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Raleigh (a company that made bicycles).
and
https://www.bikesmithdesign.com/BBTool/
which page happily claims $25 plus $9 shipping in USofA.
and
https://www.bikesmithdesign.com/BBTool/
which page happily claims $25 plus $9 shipping in USofA.
It does work well on Raleigh fixed cups of a particular era...I see them here mostly on three speeds.
Any experience there gets lost in working on the current situation, which appears to be a RH threaded BB from the cottered era in France.
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Scrap challenge
Two old spread-eagled 5/8 wrenches and an old cup.
Welded by a blind person
A nut and bolt and a few flat washers
For most of the 20th century British made bikes used the 5/8 raised slot on the fixed side. The adjustable side less so but mainly dowel holes, if not the same. Hundreds of millions of bikes used this setup.
The shipping to the UK for the featured tool doubles the price but it is a heavy item.
Last edited by Johno59; 03-11-21 at 12:50 PM.
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#44
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Nearly every British bike I have has this arrangement. Sunbeam, Rudge, Triumph, Hercules, Humber, Holdsworth, Claud Butler, Bates, Raleigh, Robin Hood and some.. That goes from 1903 to the 1980s when it all went pear-shaped. For what it's worth it was a terrible PITA if you were a mechanic. I'm assuming the idea was to keep the BB as narrow a possible - if I'm being kind. Having said that the ridiculously hideous width of modern plastic bike BBs suggests they may have been smarter than I give them credit for.
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Nearly every British bike I have has this arrangement. Sunbeam, Rudge, Triumph, Hercules, Humber, Holdsworth, Claud Butler, Bates, Raleigh, Robin Hood and some.. That goes from 1903 to the 1980s when it all went pear-shaped. For what it's worth it was a terrible PITA if you were a mechanic. I'm assuming the idea was to keep the BB as narrow a possible - if I'm being kind.
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I mean to say ......what kind of maniac would attempt to manufacture something like that.
Last edited by Johno59; 03-11-21 at 03:15 PM.
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I’ve seen a lot of fixed cups going all the way back to cottered cranks and I can’t recall ever seeing one with that configuration. The cup you show is a common adjustable cup but not a fixed cup. Fixed cups that I’ve seen are almost exclusively have flats on the very outer edges of the cup and use a 36mm (1.4”) wrench to remove. Like this one.
Don't worry, you're not the only one who's been there. I had the same impression the first time I saw it, but I was willing to ask about it so I don't fall into the same trap. Likewise, another recent BF'er had the same inquiry about the lack of a flange.
We can't know everything. I wasn't employed at a shop as long as some of the others around here, but I saw a lot while turning a wrench for someone else's dollar. After all that, I'd never seen this configuration.
Always something new to stuff in the cranium!
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Okay. Learn something new all the time. It’s still very, very rare considering that I’ve laid hands on north of 15,000 bikes at my local co-op over the last 10 years and have never seen one. It’s also unlikely that Spellscape’s Motobecane has that kind of fixed cup.
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Sure ...the cotter pin arrangement necessitated a good chunk of steel width in the crank to give strength. However I don't believe complexity provides an explanation. I have a 1903 Sunbeam that has a 2 speed epi-cylic BB with 150 1/8" ball-bearings - still going strong.
I mean to say ......what kind of maniac would attempt to manufacture something like that.
I mean to say ......what kind of maniac would attempt to manufacture something like that.
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Trust me those fixed cup were to be avoided at all costs.