Stevensb 

I'm looking at this early to mid 70's Allin Butler (frame only). I've only seen photos so far. Based on some quick research I'm concerned that, despite the seller saying the chrome fork is original, it isn't. I'll check to see if there is a s/n match to the frame when I get a chance. Anyone know if Chrome forks were an option?

While the downtube shifter bosses are gone, clamp on or bar ends might work. I think the RD hanger is still there. I didn't think the top tube cable guides would be on a bike of this vintage.

On the plus side it has some nice lugs, probably 531 tubing and campy dropouts, at least on the rear.

Appreciate any insights.

Brad

Six jours

Don't know anything about the name. Looks like a decent quality British road frame, which is a pretty nice thing.

If the shifter bosses were ground off there's a possibility of serious nicks. I've seen a couple of examples where some kid used an angle grinder and went through more than half the thickness of the tube. If there doesn't seem to be any damage, replacing the bosses is a simple matter.

If the frame was my size and the kind of bike I was looking for, I'd consider up to $300 or so - assuming no permanent damage.

Italuminium

If the price is right... Seriously, I'm all for a nice fixed wheel set up on a brit bike, but these aerospokes, yuk.

rhm

I don't know about the fork, but it has an original vibe. Some bikes definitely came with a chromed fork.* Worth taking a look. Are you sure it had shifter bosses? I have a hunch it's all intact.


*edit, this page has a photo of Keith Butler riding an Allin with a chromed fork

unworthy1

Agreed based on the few photos on Classic lightweights UK: fork could be original to the frame and frame may not have had shifter bosses, those split style TT guides look original to me.. In any case it's a worthy project to buy and save this one...good luck!

Six jours

In the second photo I can see the spot where the right shifter boss used to be.

rhm

Looking at the photos some more, I'm pretty sure there were no shifter bosses. The damage I see is all in the letter N of ALLIN, and no one would put the decal over the shifter boss. So okay, the decal is messed up. But I think the frame is okay.

Probably very late 1972 or early 1973.

Six jours

Maybe I'm looking at a higher resolution screen, but about halfway between the "N" and the head lug I can pretty clearly see the "ghost" of a square with a hole in the middle of it. I can't imagine what it could be other than the remains of a shifter boss.

rhm

Hmmm, yeah, okay, I see that now too. That's a better location for shifters. But I'm still not convinced; clamp-on shifters might leave a similar mark.

Part of my reasoning is, 1972/3 is a little early for brazed on shifter bosses.

David Newton

The fork crown even looks the same

Six jours

You could well be right.

I certainly would be happy with a good looking clamp-on boss, were it my bike. I really just wanted to point out that if the bosses were brazed on, they could be easily replaced - and that if they were brazed on and improperly removed, the frame could essentially be junk.

Stevensb 

Going to see the frame in person later this evening so I guess we will find out if there were braze ons or not.

thanks guys.

Brad

Velognome 

But not out of the question. My '55 Hetchins was built with 2 bosses.

Stevensb 

I've now seen the frame and will soon be the owner of it, thus freeing a proper English road bike from a fixie life. Current owner will strip it of the parts he wants to keep and I'll pick up the rest tomorrow. The front fork does seem to be original - it has small Allin decals on it. If you look very carefully at the second photo in the original post you can see the very small gold coloured Allin decal on the right fork level with the top of the tire line in the background. There is a matching decal on the other leg as well. There are Campy dropouts on the fork. The down tube shifter bosses do seem to have been drewed - sorry @rhm - but I don't see that the tube was compromised. Thanks for the heads up @Six jours. All other braze-ons seem to still be in place. In general the paint and chrome is a little rough. The seat tube decals are badly faded - can still make out a faint Reynolds decal as well as the longer "Special Stan Butler Model" decal. The lugs, lining, head badge and a few other details make the bike attractive to me. Plus, I can now post a bike to the "black and gold thread". I'll take and post some detail photos once I get the frame. Not sure what I will do with it in terms of build, but I've got all winter to figure that out - most likely Campy NR, to be consistent with the rest of the herd.

Cheers.

Brad

3speedslow

I think it's great that this bike is going to continue to live out on the road. It is a shame it has had features drewed off.

But I can't imagine this scorn for a Brit fixie. Many of these same country men rode one both on and off season with not a bit of thought of a travesty afflicted on the bike.


I have myself an early Dawes that I have chosen to build up as a SS. Down on the coast, it makes sense. And no, nothing was drewed.


Peace.... hope no flame heads my way. Just my opinion on this matter. It looks like a fantastic frame.

Stevensb 

Hey @3speedslow: no scorn intended nor any flames (especially Calgary Flames) headed your way. I prefer the geared approach and look forward to rebuilding this frame as a geared bike. Peace to you as well. Cheers

Brad

Six jours

Neener neener. I expect RHM to commit ritual suicide, of course.

In all seriousness, though, I am a great fan of classic British FG/SS bikes and built a replica of a pre-war FG Brit tourer for myself. But the OP's bike is obviously meant for a derailleur. I think a FG bike looks a bit silly with a derailleur hanger fluttering in the breeze.

Maybe the OP should cut it off.

3speedslow

" I prefer the geared approach and look forward to rebuilding this frame as a geared bike. Peace to you as well. Cheers"
Stevensb, I seriously look forward to seeing this new frame of yours, then it's new decorations. I enjoy Brit frames in any configuration. It's great to have an interesting winter project. I hope to complete mine before any real nasty weather makes the test ride unpleasant. We are lucky here on the coast.

Congrats with the new acquisition ! Cheers.

rhm

Well, that's good news all round. I'm not a fan of brazed on shifter bosses anyway so no sour grapes there. And no scorn for Brit fixies either, I ride a Claud Butler.

Yeah, I knew someone was going to call me on that. Brazed on shifter bosses were common in the 50's, usually for Simplex/Huret/Cyclo shifters. These went out of style in the early 60's. Campy style bosses became fashionable later; I'm not sure when, I think mid 70's is the earliest I've seen.

Stevensb 

The current owner is struggling with a stuck seat post! Merde! He will keep me "posted" on his progress as he tries to remove it.

Brad

bloom87

pizza spokes

zazenzach

Yikes! Well it's good that was discovered before money exchanged hands.

Make sure to flash a light and inspect the downtube if/when you decide to proceed with the transaction. don't want a damaged DT!

Six jours

Hopefully the current owner isn't a dingbat. If I really wanted the frame, I might prefer to remove the post myself, just to ensure nothing stupid is done.

Grand Bois

Seat tube.

3speedslow

Sorry to hear about this latest bit about the "Brit". I hope the PO has good techniques to employ on seat post removal !


Keep us posted !